Options for 2008 4t Bessacarr E495 within the M25 with tighter emissions standards from March 1st 2021

[jim3567]

Dogged with homeschooling 3 kids and both parents lucky enough to be in full-time work have naturally left this too late.

Our E495 is built on the Fiat Ducato 2.3 130 Multijet.

From March 1st the London Emissions Zone is tightening its standards and we'll be liable to a £100 per day payment to take the van on the road. We won't be included (we're in Bromley), in the expanded ULEZ when that takes effect in October 2021.

I know there has been discussion about the merits or otherwise of the tightening standards, I'm not after that, but after suggestions as to what can be done, apart from the obvious moving or selling the van. Nor am I after advice on the merits or otherwise of living within the M25.

I've done a bit of research, but want to see what others think and if I might have missed anything.

Options as I see it:

1. Do nothing and pay up. The cost of any changes may be so much that taking the van out a bit less for longer trips, we might just be better off paying the premium. > this seems mad, as one of the great things about the van is popping out on day trips and not spending £££ on getting lunch somewhere.
   
   
2. The van is rated at 4005kg, it weighs 3300kg when empty except for me & a full tank of fuel. If the van was rated to under 3500kg we wouldn't need to pay the LEZ charge. > this also seems a it mad. We got a quote from SVTech last year to uprate it to 4500kg as we have so much clobber with the kids + stuff. The idea of travelling with essentially nothing, kind of misses the point! Also, I suspect we'd be liable to pay at a later date.
   
   
3. Swap out the engine for a new EURO VI engine. > Has anyone actually done this? Is it feasible, what's the cost? Thousands I guess.
   
   
4. Retrofit. > this is the most obvious thing to do, but finding out information about the practicalities of this has not been easy. Under the Clean Vehicle Retrofit Accreditation Scheme (https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/service/clean-vehicle-retrofit-accreditation-scheme/) there doesn't seem to be anything relevant for a Fiat Ducato engine.
   
   
5. This thread suggests that the Fiats might have been gaming the system too (we have a Seat Alhambra as a family car which was also caught in the VW cheating scandal): https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...ns-scandal-affecting-fiat-ducato-vans.232242/ - should we try for compensation?

Thanks in advance for taking a look at this.

 

[otherclive]

Dogged with homeschooling 3 kids and both parents luck enough to be in full-time work have naturally left this too late.

Our E495 is built on the Fiat Ducato 2.3 130 Multijet.

From March 1st the London Emissions Zone is tightening its standards and we'll be liable to a £100 per day payment to take the van on the road. We won't be included (we're in Bromley), in the expanded ULEZ when that takes effect in October 2021.

I know there has been discussion about the merits or otherwise of the tightening standards, I'm not after that, but after suggestions as to what can be done, apart from the obvious moving or selling the van. Nor am I after advice on the merits or otherwise of living within the M25.

I've done a bit of research, but what to see what others think and if I might have missed anything.

Options as I see it:

1. Do nothing and pay up. The cost of any changes may be so much that taking the van out a bit less for longer trips, we might just be better off paying the premium. > this seems mad, as one of the great things about the van is popping out on day trips and not spending £££ on getting lunch somewhere.
   
   
2. The van is rated at 4005kg, it weighs 3300kg when empty except for me & a full tank of fuel. If the van was rated to under 3500kg we wouldn't need to pay the LEZ charge. > this also seems a it mad. We got a quote from SVTech last year to uprate it to 4500kg as we have so much clobber with the kids + stuff. The idea of travelling with essentially nothing, kind of misses the point! Also, I suspect we'd be liable to pay at a later date.
   
   
3. Swap out the engine for a new EURO VI engine. > Has anyone actually done this? Is it feasible, what's the cost? Thousands I guess.
   
   
4. Retrofit. > this is the most obvious thing to do, but finding out information about the practicalities of this has not been easy. Under the Clean Vehicle Retrofit Accreditation Scheme (https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/service/clean-vehicle-retrofit-accreditation-scheme/) there doesn't seem to be anything relevant for a Fiat Ducato engine.
   
   
5. This thread suggests that the Fiats might have been gaming the system too (we have a Seat Alhambra as a family car which was also caught in the VW cheating scandal): https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...ns-scandal-affecting-fiat-ducato-vans.232242/ - should we try for compensation?

Thanks in advance for taking a look at this.

Quite a dilemma for you. Could you down rate it to 3500 kg. That gives 200 kg payload which I guess includes kids for day trips. Then for longer trips a decent trailer for the clobber, or kids if you prefer. You’d have to look at the legality of it etc.

 

[jim3567]

Quite a dilemma for you. Could you down rate it to 3500 kg. That gives 200 kg payload which I guess includes kids for day trips. Then for longer trips a decent trailer for the clobber, or kids if you prefer. You’d have to look at the legality of it etc.

Ah, that's a great idea, hadn't thought of the trailer option. Will look into it.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Further to Otherclives suggestion (and I don't know if it was tongue in cheek or not but) within the UK you are not allowed to carry human passengers in trailers with simple ball hitches.

But considering the points you have laid out, let me tackle #5. By all means try for compensation, but I have no information about whether Fiat/Ducato were involved with cheating on diesel emissions, and even if they were, its not a forgone conclusion that compensation would be offered, so I would not rely on that unknown prospect to fund the ULEZ charges.

There must be other Ducato van owners who are going to be affected in much the same way, I am certain you would get better technical advice from Ducato forums or Fiat them selves.

I would expect changing the engine for a complete engine with all the new emissions gear will cost several thousands of pounds, You might need new electrics and gear box as well. The vehicle will no longer be standard so its inherent value might be negatively affected.

If you were prepared to fund the engine exchange (even if its possible) it might make more financial sense to revert to your point 1

The retrofit option seems to be suggesting going down the EV conversion route. Presently that is a very expensive option typically in excess of £10k. But you would also run into weight problems given your already heavy weight loading.

I wonder if it might make more sense to sell your present vehicle and invest in one with the appropriate ULEZ attributes.

 

[otherclive]

Further to Otherclives suggestion (and I don't know if it was tongue in cheek or not but) within the UK you are not allowed to carry human passengers in trailers with simple ball hitches.

But considering the points you have laid out, let me tackle #5. By all means try for compensation, but I have no information about whether Fiat/Ducato were involved with cheating on diesel emissions, and even if they were, its not a forgone conclusion that compensation would be offered, so I would not rely on that unknown prospect to fund the ULEZ charges.

There must be other Ducato van owners who are going to be affected in much the same way, I am certain you would get better technical advice from Ducato forums or Fiat them selves.

I would expect changing the engine for a complete engine with all the new emissions gear will cost several thousands of pounds, You might need new electrics and gear box as well. The vehicle will no longer be standard so its inherent value might be negatively affected.

If you were prepared to fund the engine exchange (even if its possible) it might make more financial sense to revert to your point 1

The retrofit option seems to be suggesting going down the EV conversion route. Presently that is a very expensive option typically in excess of £10k. But you would also run into weight problems given your already heavy weight loading.

I wonder if it might make more sense to sell your present vehicle and invest in one with the appropriate ULEZ attributes.

Prof
I cannot believe that anyone would take my comment about putting the kids in a towed trailer seriously. Clearly the OP is a sensible motorhomer as shown by his consideration of his possible options. I hope it’s not getting to the stage where any light hearted comment has to be accompanied by a disclaimer. Because as you have previously pointed out emojis cannot be understood by everyone. If I took your comment literally could I carry a human passenger in a trailer that used a hitch pin and eye coupling? I believe the answer is “No” but it’s not a simple ball hitch as per your post. (TIC)

 

[Damian]

I hope it’s not getting to the stage where any light hearted comment has to be accompanied by a disclaimer.

So do I !!!
It is quite obvious that the comment was meant as a throw away jest, similar to many others and are meant just as that.

If there is something really amiss in a post myself or Parksy will resolve that issue, it is not required for any other user to act as a Forum Policeman and constantly pull others up for whatever reason.

 

[otherclive]

For clarity the “legality” I was referring to were the aspects regarding towing with the motorhome. Does its spec cover a towing limit at a reduced 3500kg plated weight? Is the 200 kg sufficient for the payload of 2 adults and children plus fuel and any kit carried? Could be tight but perhaps some load could be removed. It’s a difficult problem for the OP.

 

[jim3567]

Thanks all for getting back to me. I did get the joke re the trailer / kids. Looks like the trailer/down-rating option might be best and worth investigating further, though I assume that the emissions will be tightened further as time goes on, so we might be playing catch up again sooner rather than later.

All the other tips about engine replacement pros and cons gratefully received.