Pariah's?

[Parksy]

According to an article in the Daily Express, a report from 'Your Legal Friend' (I've never heard of them either) showed that 'caravan drivers (sic) are the least popular road users'
I didn't know that camels loaded with goods were allowed on Britains roads, because the kind of caravan that is 'driven' is more likely to be found in the Sahara desert than on the M5 heading south where they may encounter touring caravans being towed by motorists.
The article goes on to say that 'Caravan drivers are blissfully unaware of their critics'.
This is a bit rich from someone who is obviously blissfully unaware of how to write a grammatically correct newspaper article
What do you think?

 

[RogerL]

All that venom - and yet HGVs still have lower speed limits than caravans so by definition must be holding up car drivers even more.

Consultation and investigations into convoy congestion (causing frustration/accidents) on the A9 between Perth and Inverness showed that a big part of the problem is that car drivers no longer know how to overtake safely - and prefer to sit behind slower vehicles whingeing about being held up!

 

[NigelHutson]

All that venom - and yet HGVs still have lower speed limits than caravans so by definition must be holding up car drivers even more.

Or they break the law more often? :woohoo:

 

[Gabsgrandad]

I am not that bothered or particularly sensitive to the Clarksonesque comments of the ignorant members in the 'driving' fraternity. Perhaps we should all (All 'tuggers' that is,) e mail the Express and put a counter point of view! - Flood 'em! See if they respond! Haven't read the article (can't remember last time I did see the Express.,?) but can imagine the usual anti towing diatribe. Vote with your keyboard.
PS. I am not always a "tugger" and do quite a bit of solo motoring and with a little honesty there are some 'tuggers' who do engender this attitude and thoughts from other motorists, and sadly including myself at times, particularly those that travel in convoy, and not a thought for those that want to get past.Then there are the 40 mph'ers who missed the law being changed (When was that now?) We can't really grumble if folks are doing there 50, (I bet most motorists don't know that HGV are limited to 40 on these roads.
Sadly we are all tarred with this worst tuggers brush.
But hey ho I have a broad back! (must continue the diet?)

 

[RogerL]

All that venom - and yet HGVs still have lower speed limits than caravans so by definition must be holding up car drivers even more.

Or they break the law more often? :woohoo:

Depends on each driver's transport manager - HGV speeds are recorded on their tachograph and easy to check based on their routing for a particular day - in addition some HGV fleets have reduced speed policies to save fuel cost.

 

[RogerL]

I am not that bothered or particularly sensitive to the Clarksonesque comments of the ignorant members in the 'driving' fraternity. Perhaps we should all (All 'tuggers' that is,) e mail the Express and put a counter point of view! - Flood 'em! See if they respond! Haven't read the article (can't remember last time I did see the Express.,?) but can imagine the usual anti towing diatribe. Vote with your keyboard.
PS. I am not always a "tugger" and do quite a bit of solo motoring and with a little honesty there are some 'tuggers' who do engender this attitude and thoughts from other motorists, and sadly including myself at times, particularly those that travel in convoy, and not a thought for those that want to get past.Then there are the 40 mph'ers who missed the law being changed (When was that now?) We can't really grumble if folks are doing there 50, (I bet most motorists don't know that HGV are limited to 40 on these roads.
Sadly we are all tarred with this worst tuggers brush.
But hey ho I have a broad back! (must continue the diet?)

Speed limits are exactly that, the maxumum speed - they aren't targets - there are no minimum speed limits in the UK.

 

[NigelHutson]

All that venom - and yet HGVs still have lower speed limits than caravans so by definition must be holding up car drivers even more.

Or they break the law more often? :woohoo:

Depends on each driver's transport manager - HGV speeds are recorded on their tachograph and easy to check based on their routing for a particular day - in addition some HGV fleets have reduced speed policies to save fuel cost.

Of course they are Roger (I used to look at enough of them - both analogue and digital, and did route traces in a previous life), but bearing in mind that on single carriageway roads (at the moment) they are restricted to 40 mph, and dual-carriageways 50 mph) I doubt whether many Transport Managers would take action. They are limited to 90kph (56mph), so can usually get away with travelling on the limiter. I do emphasise it's some, not all, just as some caravanners give the rest of us a bad name.

 

[RogerL]

I wasn't having a go at HGVs, just showing how car drivers make all sorts of assumptions and generalisations - in the main, it's always someone else's fault whatever it is - caravans, HGVs, cyclists, buses, local council, national government - but never cars!

HGV fleets with reduced speed policies can still be an issue - in Scotland, I understand that those with such a policy have been asked to increase it from 40mph to 50mph during the trial on the A9.

 

[Parksy]

The replies on the Daily Express message board are in the main broadly supportive of caravanners with the exception of one or two attention seekers who often respond with stupid or outrageous statements on social media to create some sort of reaction.
For those who haven't seen the article or would like to reply to the article on their message board Click Here

 

[chrisbee1]

The thing that amazes me is that 39% of tuggers aren't happy on the road. I take this to mean when they are towing. Are they not happy because they don't feel confident when towing or is it just general traffic conditions? If the latter then presumably they are even more unhappy solo. When I'm out and about towing it's the car being driven slowly in front of me that I get irked with. Following drivers wrongly believe it's me holding them up.

 

[GrahamE]

As the holder of a Class 1 HGV licence with over 24 yrs experience, 10 of that running around Europe I think I'm entitled to speak on this. When I first started The M5 was often a big hold up of caravaners and trucks. The speed limiter was coming in to force a bit later on so the regular sight 2 miles up front was the truck in lane 2 trying to get past the caravan in lane 1 but then cars, trucks and caravans were not advanced as they are now. Todays complaints are not down to power or driver but the lack of patients by some probably brought on by todays click to buy now get it tomorrow AM world we live in. That and the fact drivers are often taught to pass a test not to drive, let alone understand the needs such as space and time to manoeuvre by others. The looks some car drivers give because they think professional drivers should compensate for their idiotic behaviour are unreal. We all want to get home, somewhere, on holiday or even to work so these people that do moan should consider if there short temper is suitable when driving a vehicle. The 40 mph speed limit on single carriage ways for HGV's maybe raised by the Government to 50 according to my latest union news letter, I've had caravaners leave me standing when I'm sitting at 60 on the motorway, seen trucks do stupid things to get past so I don't think there is a specific band just a certain attitude and lack of patients. Right nuff said.

 

[RayS]

I now do the majority of my 'tugging' in Europe and find it much more relaxing. True there are idiots in all classes of vehicles just like here, but by and large much preferable On the long legs the majority of the HGV's are the long haul guys, often running on their limiters, but generally courteous and helpful. They will often 'flash you in' after overtaking particularly in bad weather and very rarely fail to acknowledge if you do the smae for them. I guess it's because they are not on the bonus chasing short haul trips so common in UK.
Due to length of the outfit we usually use the HGV parking area rather than that marked for caravans in the motorway service areas. The 'correct' places are often limited in number and approach and exit quite difficult - clearly their designer has never tried to take a 12m+ outfit into them. We have never had any disapproval from the HGV guys - usually a grin as we lift a glass to them over lunch.

The worst parts of our annual trips to Spain and Provence are inevitably those to and from home to ferry ports - both in road manners of other users and due to poor road surfaces and signage.

Living near a major tourist route to the south west - the A303 - most of the traffic problems are not due to caravanners or any other road users but to the ludicrous state of the road with sections of 4 lane dual connected with two lane single through tiny villages. As for Stonehenge....!!!

 

[chrisbee1]

As for Stonehenge....!!!

To be fair, it was there before the road. :S

 

[Dustydog]

"Your Legal Friend " is a firm of Merseyside Solicitors who specialise in No Win No Fee cases.
I suspect the purpose of their article is to discredit caravanners possibly encouraging the solo motorist to somehow blame the poor tugger

I doubt any of the "friend" has ever towed.
I accept there are exceptions but in general my experience is that caravanners are thoughtful, careful with their outfits and invariably have taken extra driving tests from PSV, HGV, IAM, ROSPA and courses from one of the clubs.
IMO the worst offenders for holdups on dual carriageways is the HGV overtaking another at an additional 0.2 mph taking 8 -10 miles to complete the action. I appreciate they too have tight time schedules . A shame the vehicle being overtaken doesn't slacken of for a few seconds.
The rest of the article was unsubstantiated drivel going for free advertising!! :woohoo: :evil: .

 

[RayS]

Very true and you can't really blame the original occupants. The mind boggles about getting caught in the traffic jam behind one of the stones as it was moved along on rollers or however. Convoi Exceptional goes now way to describe it. Can you imagine overshooting the entrance by a few cubits and having to back up ?

 

[crazyguider]

Earlier this summer I was towing the van and became stuck behind a smallish tractor doing 35 on an a road in Somerset. The road was wide but quite bendy and I had no chance to pass. As the road straightened out a long low black thing hurtled past me, no doibt cursing the caravanner up front. It was a great joy to see him hammer on his anchors when he beheld the tractor! A kind of karma, I think! :lol:

 

[Gafferbill]

As for Stonehenge....!!!

To be fair, it was there before the road. :S

.......the A303 is thought to roughly follow an ancient track way across the South of England used by early Humans.

This track way easily pre-dates the stones!

 

[RogerL]

The link shows a picture of the Stonehenge tracks in WW1 http://www.sarsen.org/2012/03/stonehenge-troops-and-fargo-cottages.html it's one of the oldest sites in the world, parts of the site dating back to 8000 BC but the stones themselves date from 3000-2000 BC.

So was the track really there first - which way did they bring the stones in from Wales?

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

The link shows a picture of the Stonehenge tracks in WW1
- which way did they bring the stones in from Wales?

They didn't, the glaciers put the stones on Salisbury Plain.

 

[chrisbee1]

As for Stonehenge....!!!

To be fair, it was there before the road. :S

.......the A303 is thought to roughly follow an ancient track way across the South of England used by early Humans.

This track way easily pre-dates the stones!

I was referring to the A303 metalled road which suffers traffic congestion, not an ancient footpath.

 

[crazyguider]

Not the blue stones, they come from the Preselli Mountains in wales.

 

[RogerL]

Not the blue stones, they come from the Preselli Mountains in wales.

There is a theory that the stones were carried by glaciers from Prescelli to Stonehenge during the last ice-age.

 

[crazyguider]

But the glaciers didn't reach that far! There is also evidence at Presilli of the rocks being trimmed before they were moved...i think!

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Nobody in their right mind would move hundreds of tons of stones a hundred miles over land and water just to watch the sun.

Trial movement of the stones has been recreated several times and has always been sunk, quite literally, by the sea and rivers. Long live the glaciers. The glacier edge was estimated to be about about southern England, just where the Plain is.

PS - I was Salisbury Plain born and bred.

 

[RogerL]

Nobody in their right mind would move hundreds of tons of stones a hundred miles over land and water just to watch the sun.

Trial movement of the stones has been recreated several times and has always been sunk, quite literally, by the sea and rivers. Long live the glaciers. The glacier edge was estimated to be about about southern England, just where the Plain is.

PS - I was Salisbury Plain born and bred.

Indeed - and much of the effect of the glaciers happened as they melted, with many rivers on very different courses to that which they now have.