otherclive said:It really would be interesting to see if PC or one of the Clubs could test one of these cars, or equivalent, and we could then see how well they do tow. Given the importance of the national debate on petrol v diesel and the fact that people may well delay any purchasing decisions due to their perceived uncertainty, or lack of knowledge, it could be in the car makers interests to offer their smaller engined petrol models for tow tests.
totally mis leading remark. you weren't on here when indeed that exact topic was hot ... you need LOWDOWN torque, hence the popularity of diesel engines over the past 2 decades, but you cannot FORGET the importance of BHP too [ working rate ]otherwise you limit your ability to go anywhere at more than a crawl. .note today's modern petrol engines are now developing there torque much earlier than in the past .never the less for a long time the caravan club [ i believe or PC] gave out what it considered to be a min bhp figure it perceived for decent towing.. last time this was a hot topic on here 2 or 3 years ago] it appeared that the CC or PC had updated its info and gave a min torque figure too.. Hence when looking at both those passats in question they appeared to lack enough torque given they had less torque than a 2 decade old passat diesel but the new petrol version at least had some extra bhp .. point is its 2017 what was perceived good 2 decades ago wouldnt hold true today .just look at what many tow with today on here if they are towing 1500kg and you'll find at least 250 ft/lb of torque and 160 plus bhp .. neither of those new passats compare well to that and therefore would pull inadequately compared to the vast majority of vehicles that you normally see towing 1500kg caravans .if i was new to caravaning and about to go purchasing a new car costing xxxx pounds i'd like to think someone would point out that yes they can tow what you're asking but frankly by today's chosen tow vehicles they are lacking . surely better than buying one and finding out the hard way they tend to be lacking compaired to other outfits that cross your path..EH52ARH said:Forget about Horse power its torque that is needed. For towing. Dray Horse to Shetland pony.
JonnyG said:totally mis leading remark. you weren't on here when indeed that exact topic was hot ... you need LOWDOWN torque, hence the popularity of diesel engines over the past 2 decades, but you cannot FORGET the importance of BHP too [ working rate ]otherwise you limit your ability to go anywhere at more than a crawl. .note today's modern petrol engines are now developing there torque much earlier than in the past .never the less for a long time the caravan club [ i believe or PC] gave out what it considered to be a min bhp figure it perceived for decent towing.. last time this was a hot topic on here 2 or 3 years ago] it appeared that the CC or PC had updated its info and gave a min torque figure too.. Hence when looking at both those passats in question they appeared to lack enough torque given they had less torque than a 2 decade old passat diesel but the new petrol version at least had some extra bhp .. point is its 2017 what was perceived good 2 decades ago wouldnt hold true today .just look at what many tow with today on here if they are towing 1500kg and you'll find at least 250 ft/lb of torque and 160 plus bhp .. neither of those new passats compare well to that and therefore would pull inadequately compared to the vast majority of vehicles that you normally see towing 1500kg caravans .if i was new to caravaning and about to go purchasing a new car costing xxxx pounds i'd like to think someone would point out that yes they can tow what you're asking but frankly by today's chosen tow vehicles they are lacking . surely better than buying one and finding out the hard way they tend to be lacking compaired to other outfits that cross your path..EH52ARH said:Forget about Horse power its torque that is needed. For towing. Dray Horse to Shetland pony.
JonnyG said:... point is its 2017 what was perceived good 2 decades ago wouldnt hold true today ..
Raywood said:It may be that as power has been increased we have simply got used to easier towing and forgotten earlier problems. At the end of the day more power and torque makes the job easier but lower powered cars will survive in most cases if you accept some compromise.
JonnyG said:totally mis leading remark. you weren't on here when indeed that exact topic was hot ... you need LOWDOWN torque, hence the popularity of diesel engines over the past 2 decades, but you cannot FORGET the importance of BHP too .EH52ARH said:Forget about Horse power its torque that is needed. For towing. Dray Horse to Shetland pony.
Johny I think maybe you missread or did not realise about my post. My refering to a Dray horse , Big srtong and lots of power. It can pull lots. 1 horsepower.
A small Shetland pony , but cannot pull as much weight. For as long. 1 horsepower, They could probably accelerate to the same speed in the same time but the dray horse will have more power. Just refering to torque.
My best regards Hutch.
Dustydog said:.... I read somewhere recently, can't find it today, that a retrofit piece of kit may be available that can reduce old diesel car's NO emissions by 80%.
ProfJohnL said:Dustydog said:.... I read somewhere recently, can't find it today, that a retrofit piece of kit may be available that can reduce old diesel car's NO emissions by 80%.
Hello Dusty
Google "CGON" a device invented by Brian Sheard an ex submariner.
ProfJohnL said:Raywood said:It may be that as power has been increased we have simply got used to easier towing and forgotten earlier problems. At the end of the day more power and torque makes the job easier but lower powered cars will survive in most cases if you accept some compromise.
Hello Ray,
But what were the earlier problems?
Cars manged to tow quite successfully. As a family we spent many holidays touring around the UK with 4 berth Sprite behind a range of modest cars.
I do agree that towing to day may be safer due to improved brakes, and the periodic inspections such as MOT's more comfortable, but the basic function of the tow vehicle has not changed and so the issues are also similar, and most come down to the drivers ability to load correctly and to drive in accordance with the conditions.
I wouldn't want to go back to a 1950's car for daily transport or towing, becasue they were much less reliable than today's cars. But all other factors being equal, they worked and were perhaps appropriate for their timE.
What we have today are cars with prodigious power outputs which can propel 1700kg from 0 to 60 in 6.5 seconds with a top speed of 155mph, But where can you use that performance? And does it not help to explain why car insurance now costs so much more even allowing for inflation?