I appreciate what you're saying, but screwing aluminium panels to a cheap pine frame is hardly the rolls royce of construction techniques! We'll have to see how it goes over the next couple of years!
Hi just had a look at the Pegasus in PC and on the new web site.
Impressed by the web presentation but also like the looks of the new ideas within the vans design. Whether the construction is better will take time to prove obviously but I think i'd be more tempted to go for the 524 as a replacement for our P6 Burgundy than the P7 Burgundy.
The only thing is that at the price the Senator Indiana (from buying a Bailey point of view) comes into the decision process.
Must admit from my point of view both the Pegasus and P7 look a bit trendy seventies inside, but perhaps that's an age thing, whereas the Senators look lighter, like the P6's did.
I suppose if Swift et al decide to develope some of the ideas themselves they'll probably pick up sales off people who probably aren't convinced by Bailey's new construction techniques and styles.
Totally only a personal view but we've noticed the P7's don't seem to be as numerous on sites as the older P5's and 6's in fact seems as if the P7 has actually pushed sales towards the dearer Senators.
If I could afford I'd be tempted to wait for Bailey to absorb the aspects of the Pegasus into the Senator range and buy then, that is if they keep the lighter cleaner look of the Senator range.
As i say totally as personal view but hey feel free to fire away.
Best regards
Tomo
Impressed by the web presentation but also like the looks of the new ideas within the vans design. Whether the construction is better will take time to prove obviously but I think i'd be more tempted to go for the 524 as a replacement for our P6 Burgundy than the P7 Burgundy.
The only thing is that at the price the Senator Indiana (from buying a Bailey point of view) comes into the decision process.
Must admit from my point of view both the Pegasus and P7 look a bit trendy seventies inside, but perhaps that's an age thing, whereas the Senators look lighter, like the P6's did.
I suppose if Swift et al decide to develope some of the ideas themselves they'll probably pick up sales off people who probably aren't convinced by Bailey's new construction techniques and styles.
Totally only a personal view but we've noticed the P7's don't seem to be as numerous on sites as the older P5's and 6's in fact seems as if the P7 has actually pushed sales towards the dearer Senators.
If I could afford I'd be tempted to wait for Bailey to absorb the aspects of the Pegasus into the Senator range and buy then, that is if they keep the lighter cleaner look of the Senator range.
As i say totally as personal view but hey feel free to fire away.
Best regards
Tomo
Dear All,
Best thing to do is have a good look at the Pegasus at the NEC before making up your minds. The side-access lockers are larger than they look - admittedly you will struggle with a Wastemaster - and while it is wise to learn the lessons of history, the failure of a concept 35 years ago is not reason to suggest no-one should ever try to improve things ever again. Was the Cabby a lot dearer than rival products? Pegasus is cheaper than the Senator models it will be sold alongside which means people have a straight choice to make over whether they like the caravan or not. Same as with any other caravan.
There has been a lot of talk on this forum over the years about caravans which are more resistant to damp. Bailey has put the effort into developing a product to tackle the issue head on, so to dismiss it based on how the back panel looks or because someone in Sweden had a crack at something different in 1974 seems a bit silly. Best thing to do is have a look at one first, and make your mind up based on that.
And yes Andy, I know you've seen it, but it doesn't mean you are right
Nigel Donnelly
Editor
Practical Caravan
www.twitter.com/pcaravan
Best thing to do is have a good look at the Pegasus at the NEC before making up your minds. The side-access lockers are larger than they look - admittedly you will struggle with a Wastemaster - and while it is wise to learn the lessons of history, the failure of a concept 35 years ago is not reason to suggest no-one should ever try to improve things ever again. Was the Cabby a lot dearer than rival products? Pegasus is cheaper than the Senator models it will be sold alongside which means people have a straight choice to make over whether they like the caravan or not. Same as with any other caravan.
There has been a lot of talk on this forum over the years about caravans which are more resistant to damp. Bailey has put the effort into developing a product to tackle the issue head on, so to dismiss it based on how the back panel looks or because someone in Sweden had a crack at something different in 1974 seems a bit silly. Best thing to do is have a look at one first, and make your mind up based on that.
And yes Andy, I know you've seen it, but it doesn't mean you are right
Nigel Donnelly
Editor
Practical Caravan
www.twitter.com/pcaravan
I love the new Pegasus, but as it is iro 16.5k delivered for the replacement of my Bretagne S7, I see the market for both. Taking all vans available now, Bailey have with no doubt secured a third sale from me when we come to replace in 3 or so years.
Tom
I have seen plenty of P7s on sites, though as an owner of one myself you do notice your own type more.
To be fair the P7 has not been out that long compared to the P5 especially so that could be the reason for less of them. Why are Bailey going to complain if it going to push people towards the Senator which they charge iro 2k more for (and i am sure has a higher profit margin).
If Bailey are watching this forum (other forums are also available), then I would not be surprised if the Senator 6 range continues for a couple of years let.
Some people prefer the Pageant and some prefer the Senator. Bailey get both sales. No rival (IMO) can match the specs for the price so why not keep both the P7 and the S6 ranges to cover both camps.
To me the Ranger GT60 is the replacement for the Pageant S6 as the S7 is wider so more of a differently styled Senator rival.
Tom
I have seen plenty of P7s on sites, though as an owner of one myself you do notice your own type more.
To be fair the P7 has not been out that long compared to the P5 especially so that could be the reason for less of them. Why are Bailey going to complain if it going to push people towards the Senator which they charge iro 2k more for (and i am sure has a higher profit margin).
If Bailey are watching this forum (other forums are also available), then I would not be surprised if the Senator 6 range continues for a couple of years let.
Some people prefer the Pageant and some prefer the Senator. Bailey get both sales. No rival (IMO) can match the specs for the price so why not keep both the P7 and the S6 ranges to cover both camps.
To me the Ranger GT60 is the replacement for the Pageant S6 as the S7 is wider so more of a differently styled Senator rival.
Just looked at Bailey Pegasus website. If all they say is proved right then I think they have a winner. For once a caravan company seems to have listened to the people who buy and use the caravans. Is it my memory or was the late lamented Avondale about to bring out a semi slide away double bed? They floated a picture on their website about a week before they were liquidated. At the time we said that's what we are looking for so the Bailey 554 will be interesting to see. As you say the 10 yr claim will be good.
Well done to Bailey and good luck to them for coming out with something different. I have been trying to work out if the "on-board removable" water tank can be linked to aquaroll/waterhog because with only 23 litres the tankk would require filling 2/3 times a day. But the idea is very neat and would solve the problem of a frozen aquaroll in winter.
David, my understanding is the van still has an external point for an aquaroll etc, the removable tank is just an extra so you don't have to carry an aquaroll as well for winter touring.
To keep up a warranty i believe it has to serviced by an approved person/company,that is at least 9 services at
Michael
What if like us you really like the layout/style of van you've got and decide to hang on to your Pegasus for 8 years, that leaves a 2 years of warranty.
If you trade in on a usual 6 year warranty with 2 years to spare i.e. keep the van for 4 years, then buy a new one, surely losses to depreciation will be greater than the servicing.
I'd definitely feel more comfortable keeping a van for longer period knowing you're covered on warranty.
Advice we've heard is to hang on to your van til you've taken the biggest hit, first 3-4 years then there's a couple of years left to trade in on.
Remember when cars had a 1 year warranty and the sound of rusting deafened you, beside bronchial dirty engines.
Then hey ho along comes someone who offers 3 years warranty, Hyundai/Kia are on 7 years on certain models and now 4th biggest in the world.
You have to admit cars today are a world away from years ago, and how many people do you see repair cars outside houses now? How many one year old rusty cars do you see?
So good on Bailey for trying to push the build qaulity envelope, I personally don't mind paying to have a service done if we end up with better build integrity a la cars.
we can just then moan about styling.
Regards
Tomo
What if like us you really like the layout/style of van you've got and decide to hang on to your Pegasus for 8 years, that leaves a 2 years of warranty.
If you trade in on a usual 6 year warranty with 2 years to spare i.e. keep the van for 4 years, then buy a new one, surely losses to depreciation will be greater than the servicing.
I'd definitely feel more comfortable keeping a van for longer period knowing you're covered on warranty.
Advice we've heard is to hang on to your van til you've taken the biggest hit, first 3-4 years then there's a couple of years left to trade in on.
Remember when cars had a 1 year warranty and the sound of rusting deafened you, beside bronchial dirty engines.
Then hey ho along comes someone who offers 3 years warranty, Hyundai/Kia are on 7 years on certain models and now 4th biggest in the world.
You have to admit cars today are a world away from years ago, and how many people do you see repair cars outside houses now? How many one year old rusty cars do you see?
So good on Bailey for trying to push the build qaulity envelope, I personally don't mind paying to have a service done if we end up with better build integrity a la cars.
we can just then moan about styling.
Regards
Tomo
It does sound good but all im saying is that it is not for free you will have to have it serviced to keep it in warranty.
In my experience people have items serviced in its first years of life to keep the warranty after this they start to waver.
Apparently the average a caravan is used 3-4 weeks a year people do object to having to pay out
In my experience people have items serviced in its first years of life to keep the warranty after this they start to waver.
Apparently the average a caravan is used 3-4 weeks a year people do object to having to pay out
Peter, as well as price, you have to consider weight. The newer designed cupboards are lighter and I feel this is the primary reason that Bailey fit them. They should also counter the raising of the C of G by placing a microwave in most vans.
Bailey appear to (sensibly in my opinion) pegged the weight of their s/a vans to under 1500kg mtplm regardless of the spec.
I have the same cupboards (different finish) in our Pageant and they are very easy to use and are FIRA accredited so should be long lasting.
Bailey appear to (sensibly in my opinion) pegged the weight of their s/a vans to under 1500kg mtplm regardless of the spec.
I have the same cupboards (different finish) in our Pageant and they are very easy to use and are FIRA accredited so should be long lasting.
I see things slightly different.
If bailey are prepared to offer a 10 year warranty, then i see that as confidence in the product. My present bailey came with a 5/6 year warranty for damp, but i have only had it serviced for the first three years at baileys dealer, i check the van for damp myself. Obviously you have the choice, pay for the service or don't.
My xtrail has a 12 year warranty for rust, but it will only see a dealer for three services. But to offer a 12 year cover gives me confidence in the product.
As for the pegasus, i don't see anything to get excited about, but lets hope i am wrong.
Remember ABS was the answer not too long ago, how many bailey owners, with cracked panels whish they had the old fashioned aluminium front panel of old?
If bailey are prepared to offer a 10 year warranty, then i see that as confidence in the product. My present bailey came with a 5/6 year warranty for damp, but i have only had it serviced for the first three years at baileys dealer, i check the van for damp myself. Obviously you have the choice, pay for the service or don't.
My xtrail has a 12 year warranty for rust, but it will only see a dealer for three services. But to offer a 12 year cover gives me confidence in the product.
As for the pegasus, i don't see anything to get excited about, but lets hope i am wrong.
Remember ABS was the answer not too long ago, how many bailey owners, with cracked panels whish they had the old fashioned aluminium front panel of old?
I wonder who will design some ramps so you can park your car up on the roof. save space when you have the awning up!!!!!! and its a small pitch. ( only joking)
Or you could see it another way,what is the % of damp in 6 year old vans?say 1% not a lot so offering a 6 year water ingress is not a big cost to the company as because you have to have your van serviced and damp checked every year the likely hood of major damp damage is low as they can catch it early.Mostly just an awning rail reseated.
10 year water ingress does sound really good but as the product is untested over this period who knows.
Sounds like a good marketing ploy to me.
I dont know how many people buy new and keep their vans for 10 years seems the secondhand buyer will reap the benefit but only if it has been serviced all the time.
10 year water ingress does sound really good but as the product is untested over this period who knows.
Sounds like a good marketing ploy to me.
I dont know how many people buy new and keep their vans for 10 years seems the secondhand buyer will reap the benefit but only if it has been serviced all the time.
Hi again
I think a lot of people will change their vans fairly regularly for various reasons, fashions, different layouts, style etc. anyway.
The thing is by just pushing in the right direction will up the anti.
Remember when Fiat did the deal with Russia over steel years ago, it destroyed Lancias reputation and took Fiat to the brink.
They had to come back with galavnised bodies and new construction methods. The only other people galvanising body panels at the time, if my memory serves me right was Audi.
Fiat then gave a 3 year body warranty. I remember looking at cars to buy and the first priority was rust. It was rare to find a car with no rust at a year old, 3 years old they were dire. Many cars were just rust buckets. I knew plenty of people who spent their weekend fitting new sills, arches etc..
Without the Japanese getting in on the act and making caravans to push it further I'll take Bailey pushing to 10 years.
Yes you may still get damp in, you get it still with 6 year warranties, but you'll be covered for 10 years.
If Bailey are willing to put their neck on the block and try and raise build qualty I for one are with them.
Our old Bailey (1982 Monarch) felt more solid but it weighed proportionally more than our Burgundy.
Yes the new vans perhaps feel in places a bit flimsy, less robust shelves or plastic inserts in place of wood, but overall they're stylish and very usable.
If you want a van built like a Panzer tank then are you willing to give up your nice high tech, very sophisticated, economical car with sequential gearboxes etc. and buy a big powerful brute that laughs at towing weights, ( by the way I like the big powerful brutes).
All I say is good luck to Bailey and if it pushes manufacturers like it did with cars and many other products, more power to their elbows.
I shall definitely have a look at the latest effort and await Swift, Lunar et als reply with interest.
Also don't forget there'll more room on site for more caravans when we can all have the cars put on the caravans roof.
Best regards
Tomo
I think a lot of people will change their vans fairly regularly for various reasons, fashions, different layouts, style etc. anyway.
The thing is by just pushing in the right direction will up the anti.
Remember when Fiat did the deal with Russia over steel years ago, it destroyed Lancias reputation and took Fiat to the brink.
They had to come back with galavnised bodies and new construction methods. The only other people galvanising body panels at the time, if my memory serves me right was Audi.
Fiat then gave a 3 year body warranty. I remember looking at cars to buy and the first priority was rust. It was rare to find a car with no rust at a year old, 3 years old they were dire. Many cars were just rust buckets. I knew plenty of people who spent their weekend fitting new sills, arches etc..
Without the Japanese getting in on the act and making caravans to push it further I'll take Bailey pushing to 10 years.
Yes you may still get damp in, you get it still with 6 year warranties, but you'll be covered for 10 years.
If Bailey are willing to put their neck on the block and try and raise build qualty I for one are with them.
Our old Bailey (1982 Monarch) felt more solid but it weighed proportionally more than our Burgundy.
Yes the new vans perhaps feel in places a bit flimsy, less robust shelves or plastic inserts in place of wood, but overall they're stylish and very usable.
If you want a van built like a Panzer tank then are you willing to give up your nice high tech, very sophisticated, economical car with sequential gearboxes etc. and buy a big powerful brute that laughs at towing weights, ( by the way I like the big powerful brutes).
All I say is good luck to Bailey and if it pushes manufacturers like it did with cars and many other products, more power to their elbows.
I shall definitely have a look at the latest effort and await Swift, Lunar et als reply with interest.
Also don't forget there'll more room on site for more caravans when we can all have the cars put on the caravans roof.
Best regards
Tomo
Had another look at the web site. Apparently no one but me likes a front drawer chest/table, so this is an extra! at cost!
I reserve judgement on the front locker, but i want a bigger front locker, not three small ones, and it would be nice to have locks that had some quality for a change.
Still around
I reserve judgement on the front locker, but i want a bigger front locker, not three small ones, and it would be nice to have locks that had some quality for a change.
Still around
Any manufacturer looking to move development forward must be a good thing the aluminium front panel would concern me though. We all know how easy side panels dent when you catch them with awning poles imagine what the front of these new vans will look like with dents from stones after a few thousand miles of towing.
I have a 16-year old Knaus caravan with an alumnium front panel and I must admit that, over the years, it has suffered quite badly from hailstone damage and damage from stones thrown up from the rear wheels of the towcar.
Funny you should get on to this, the caravan we had before our present one, I found had perforations in the roof over the door after I bought it.
Here's a lesson as well, never checked the roof for any damage before we bought it (privately off someone we knew) and although I filled the holes with plastic metal damage was done and damp was already having fun under the roof.
Tomo
Here's a lesson as well, never checked the roof for any damage before we bought it (privately off someone we knew) and although I filled the holes with plastic metal damage was done and damp was already having fun under the roof.
Tomo
⇨ Stone chips to front
I wonder whether we'll see 'caravan bras' the way you see car bras in the USA?
I did see a mention that Bailey are putting a chip resistant film on the front - but I doubt that will stop dents?
I wonder whether we'll see 'caravan bras' the way you see car bras in the USA?
I did see a mention that Bailey are putting a chip resistant film on the front - but I doubt that will stop dents?
The damage to the (aluminium) front of my caravan is exclusively dents. The paint has stood up surprisingly well to 16 years of wear.
i don't know if they do it now on cars, but years ago we had a couple of VW beetles and you used to able to fit a perspex 'screen' across the front above the bumper to deflect stones.
Tomo
Tomo
No need as the front decal is infact about 18" square and made from clear anti stonechip film.
Brian
Brian
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