Penalty Points

[rayc]

Ray,

I don't about where you live but up here they are flashing boards that are only active during school entry and exit times. However, a lot of drivers have been ignoring them and driving the usual 30 mph, so the local constabulary have been asked by our masters to take a closer interest. They have made a lot of bookings as a result, but these are using police held cameras, not fixed. Actually, the Police have been wery decent about it, and usually only given verbal warnings. However, if it continues I am sure they will get tougher.

I agree the point about congestion by parents, but you don't want to anywhere near that one, very touchy subject.

Scotchlad, Were the Police checking speed whilst children were actually going to school and near the school? Like I said it couldn't happen around here.

Just in case you think I do not believe in speed controls - I do. I just think that it's all about money as soon as the camera partnerships are involved - and as the Chief Constable of Durham has said only 3% of accidents involve vehicles exceeding the speed limit that the camera policy has failed to target the real causes of accidents.

 

[RichardH]

I currently have 3 points in total I have collected 6 points in 23yrs of driving. The first 3 were for doing 44-46 in a 40 zone the second 3 were for doing 79mph on the M6 in chesire at about 10 am on a sunday morning. Both times I was over the speed limit so I got fined , I have no issue with that. My issue is the fact that the second one was on a motorway that had 2 cars on the south bound carriageway, me doing 79mph and a car doing around 50mph that drifted from the middle lane across the inside lane onto the hard shoulder and back out to the outside line. I was doin 79 because as he went onto the hard shoulder I shot past to protect me and my passengers, sadly the "camera partnership" can only prosecute for speeding so the drunk / drugged or just appalling driver carried on his merry way, I collected 3 points for speeding along with a

 

[Guest]

Scotchlad, Were the Police checking speed whilst children were actually going to school and near the school? Like I said it couldn't happen around here.

Just in case you think I do not believe in speed controls - I do. I just think that it's all about money as soon as the camera partnerships are involved - and as the Chief Constable of Durham has said only 3% of accidents involve vehicles exceeding the speed limit that the camera policy has failed to target the real causes of accidents.

Yes, it was during the schooltimes, so really they were doing the job correctly. A Parking Warden also has a habit of appearing around the 3-3.30 pm times, does wonders for the pick up runs. It does seem to be mainly the Primary Schools that have these probably for the younger age group.

 

[cris_408518]

Taking the M26 towards the M20 with lorries blocking both lanes an M3 driver tried to go up the in side of the overtaking lorry finding gap to small to force his way out he dropped back behind myself and two other cars as we past the two lorries just before the M20 the M3 accelerated very rapidly up the inside before 3 of us could move over partially using the hard shoulder to avoid the car in front of me and sweeping out into the overtaking lane past a Volvo in front of us. After joining the M20 I moved to the overtaking lane and the middle lane was to full to move into, I then found the view of two guys in the windscreen of a car behind me, I couldn't see the front or bonnet of the car. Rather worried by this dangerous tail gating with no room to move over to the left I felt forced to touch the brake pedal. It was to dangerous to brake as the car could only have been about a metre from the rear of my People carrier. Knowing my car well I knew the brake lights would come on by just touching the break pedal and I hoped that the idiot would back off which he did and then pulled back as close again. This happened three or four times with still no way to pull over into the middle lane as the car pulled back so I could only see from the wipers upwards in my rear view mirror and only see the rear wings in my side mirrors I felt forced to take the option of putting my foot down as the cars in front including the M3 sped off into the distance leaving my lane clear and a space to pull into on the left some distance ahead. I accelerated in my diesel beast and was able to fit into the gap and let the idiot who had followed just as close to my rear for over a mile pass as I took the first option to move to the left into the only space available to get out of his way.

Mr Tailgater starts to pass me thankfully but finding the M3 was now out of sight he suddenly dropped back and pulled in behind me. Thinking that I had a complete psycho behind me I started to move into the inside lane and then as I checked my mirror my close friends lit up like a preety blue Xmas tree with blue lights flashing from various parts of the car. I carefuly parked on the hard shoulder wheels turned to the left and watched as a young (they all look young to me) police officer donned tie and hat and jogged to my passenger window. I got a big smaile and cheery good afternoon and was asked to slide across and slip ot my passenger door as he complimented me on my safe parking. The two cheery officers smiled and joked as I had the details explained to me, they asked how many point I had in my 32 years of driving. Never had any, well that was fine they said."3 little one can't really hurt you then". They proceeded to take my details and were quite quick as they had correctly guessed that I was on my way to catch a Dover ferry. Knowing better than to antagonise the police I waited until they were finishing up to ask if they considered their way of driving so close behind me dangerous and provocative. "We don't understand what you're saying" they chorused smiling to one another. As they wrote down that my car was Black I corrected them that the car was dark Blue and asked If they were "Playing Snooker" and asked why they had let the Black M3 get away. "Now now sir, you shouldn't listen to silly press stories they said laughing and any way we do loads of Beemers and haven't done one of those for a long time" pointing to my car!I made my ferry and paid my fine a week or two later.

With more and more friends amd colleagues picking up points from speed cameras and mobile money box's I have invested in a Garmin I3 satnav and download speed trap software updates from www.pocketgps.co.uk monthly. Regular mobile speeding trap areas have alerts as well. As a long distance business driver doing over 70000 miles a year, the little satnavs regular boinging has trained me to keep a closer check on my speed to avoid drifting over the speed limit which is so easy to do in modern cars.

If a car had pulled out in front of me on the M20 I would have had an unmarked Police Volvo through the tailgate of my car without a doubt. I just love Kent Police and have a lot of respect for them and I can pass on their cheery smiling parting words."Tell your friends that we'll get you on the M20 as there are quite a few of us" as they waved me away and tapped their nice shiny blue grey Volvo!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Taking the M26 towards the M20 with lorries blocking both lanes an M3 driver tried to go up the in side of the overtaking lorry finding gap to small to force his way out he dropped back behind myself and two other cars as we past the two lorries just before the M20 the M3 accelerated very rapidly up the inside before 3 of us could move over partially using the hard shoulder to avoid the car in front of me and sweeping out into the overtaking lane past a Volvo in front of us. After joining the M20 I moved to the overtaking lane and the middle lane was to full to move into, I then found the view of two guys in the windscreen of a car behind me, I couldn't see the front or bonnet of the car. Rather worried by this dangerous tail gating with no room to move over to the left I felt forced to touch the brake pedal. It was to dangerous to brake as the car could only have been about a metre from the rear of my People carrier. Knowing my car well I knew the brake lights would come on by just touching the break pedal and I hoped that the idiot would back off which he did and then pulled back as close again. This happened three or four times with still no way to pull over into the middle lane as the car pulled back so I could only see from the wipers upwards in my rear view mirror and only see the rear wings in my side mirrors I felt forced to take the option of putting my foot down as the cars in front including the M3 sped off into the distance leaving my lane clear and a space to pull into on the left some distance ahead. I accelerated in my diesel beast and was able to fit into the gap and let the idiot who had followed just as close to my rear for over a mile pass as I took the first option to move to the left into the only space available to get out of his way.

Mr Tailgater starts to pass me thankfully but finding the M3 was now out of sight he suddenly dropped back and pulled in behind me. Thinking that I had a complete psycho behind me I started to move into the inside lane and then as I checked my mirror my close friends lit up like a preety blue Xmas tree with blue lights flashing from various parts of the car. I carefuly parked on the hard shoulder wheels turned to the left and watched as a young (they all look young to me) police officer donned tie and hat and jogged to my passenger window. I got a big smaile and cheery good afternoon and was asked to slide across and slip ot my passenger door as he complimented me on my safe parking. The two cheery officers smiled and joked as I had the details explained to me, they asked how many point I had in my 32 years of driving. Never had any, well that was fine they said."3 little one can't really hurt you then". They proceeded to take my details and were quite quick as they had correctly guessed that I was on my way to catch a Dover ferry. Knowing better than to antagonise the police I waited until they were finishing up to ask if they considered their way of driving so close behind me dangerous and provocative. "We don't understand what you're saying" they chorused smiling to one another. As they wrote down that my car was Black I corrected them that the car was dark Blue and asked If they were "Playing Snooker" and asked why they had let the Black M3 get away. "Now now sir, you shouldn't listen to silly press stories they said laughing and any way we do loads of Beemers and haven't done one of those for a long time" pointing to my car!I made my ferry and paid my fine a week or two later.

With more and more friends amd colleagues picking up points from speed cameras and mobile money box's I have invested in a Garmin I3 satnav and download speed trap software updates from www.pocketgps.co.uk monthly. Regular mobile speeding trap areas have alerts as well. As a long distance business driver doing over 70000 miles a year, the little satnavs regular boinging has trained me to keep a closer check on my speed to avoid drifting over the speed limit which is so easy to do in modern cars.

If a car had pulled out in front of me on the M20 I would have had an unmarked Police Volvo through the tailgate of my car without a doubt. I just love Kent Police and have a lot of respect for them and I can pass on their cheery smiling parting words."Tell your friends that we'll get you on the M20 as there are quite a few of us" as they waved me away and tapped their nice shiny blue grey Volvo!

 

[RogerL]

Insurance companies have admitted that they don't load premiums for drivers with just 3 points for speeding as there are so many of them!

This takes the wheel full circle back to the time, not so ong ago, when insurers would ignore one endorsement for speeding.

Having retired, I now realise just what the pressures of business motoring were like. I guess I got used to it at the time. Really companies shouldn't put their employees under such time pressure when driving. I always refused schedules that required breaking the speed limits and I refused to use a phone in the car, both on the grounds of safety. I came close to losing my job, though.

 

[parker1158]

I was just going to say the same thing Roger. Same goes for hire cars. A few years ago I had 3 points on my licence and went to hire a van I asked if the three points made any difference and the guy said if he refused people with 3 points he would out of business within months

 

[Guest]

Why exceed the law to save a few minutes?

Spot on there I don't have any points on my licencs and I will keep it that way.

my attitude has always been speed limits is just that and not a target

 

[smiley]

Hubby does about 40- 45000 pa - no points. But he has had them in the past. His speed is 90 and stop. not in built up areas though.

Me about 8000 at the moment, no points, have had 3 in the past. Again try my best to stay under the limit in built up areas. On the open road I love to drive fast..... road conditions permitting.

Speed cameras only stop vehicles speeding they don't catch or stop incompetent drivers.

There should be a campaign about that, its not only speed that illegal driving without due care and imcompetent is also.

I'll ignore your gripes.

 

[Lol1]

Hubby does about 40- 45000 pa - no points. But he has had them in the past. His speed is 90 and stop. not in built up areas though.

Me about 8000 at the moment, no points, have had 3 in the past. Again try my best to stay under the limit in built up areas. On the open road I love to drive fast..... road conditions permitting.

Speed cameras only stop vehicles speeding they don't catch or stop incompetent drivers.

There should be a campaign about that, its not only speed that illegal driving without due care and imcompetent is also.

I'll ignore your gripes.

Who said I had gripes, the anti-biotic cleared them up a year ago.....

 

[JohnI.Stephen]

Interesting phenomenon since I bought my 4x4 (Sorento); even when driving solo on a motorway I am quite content to sit at 65mph and set the cruise. Whereas previously (with BMWs and mercs) I was always pushing 90+ I find it quite relaxing to simply cruise at this lower speed. Reason? I suspect it's because the 4x4 isn't really engneerd for speed and handling and is more comfortable (and secuer) at a more modest pace. Mmm could be a lesson theer somewhere .....

John

 

[Lol1]

Interesting phenomenon since I bought my 4x4 (Sorento); even when driving solo on a motorway I am quite content to sit at 65mph and set the cruise. Whereas previously (with BMWs and mercs) I was always pushing 90+ I find it quite relaxing to simply cruise at this lower speed. Reason? I suspect it's because the 4x4 isn't really engneerd for speed and handling and is more comfortable (and secuer) at a more modest pace. Mmm could be a lesson theer somewhere .....

John

You have just found out something a lot of us have noticed before John. You do become content to drive at a more sedate pace. I don't think it's because the car isn't engineered to go fast though, you can still sit at "90" and not notice the fact. I think it is more to do with the feeling of security and being able to see further ahead. Being able to see the bigger picture makes you more relaxed and hence more likely to slow it down a bit. Don't get me wrong, I still like to tear around on my quad, but that's for fun not to get from A to B.

 

[cris_408518]

Hello Cris,

A long story, and a sorry tale, but in all of that you don't tell us what you were accused of?

Speeding, which I did as they were so close I felt in great danger.

 

[joeby]

I felt sorry for the Ambulance driver in the paper ,who had to deliver Donor organs from Gatwick to Oxford ,he left at 830Am and was told to get there by 10 Am ,he was caught on a speed camera in a MPH limit doing 38MPH ,and even though he appeared in court to explain the situation he was still given 3 points , i would have thought they could have used a bit more discetion in this case

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I felt sorry for the Ambulance driver in the paper ,who had to deliver Donor organs from Gatwick to Oxford ,he left at 830Am and was told to get there by 10 Am ,he was caught on a speed camera in a MPH limit doing 38MPH ,and even though he appeared in court to explain the situation he was still given 3 points , i would have thought they could have used a bit more discetion in this case

Joby if it was an emergency he/she should have been using full emergency procedure and then they would have been exempt. Theres no middle ground between driving to normal road conditions/speeds and emergengey procedure.

 

[Viking1]

cut and past this for so think to do a bout speed cams.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News_Article.asp?ST=&NA_ID=217954&EL_ID=
Mark

 

[Rayc1]

Seeing Joby's posting regarding the ambulance it is very important to remember that for the ordinary motorist there is no defence against exceeding the speed limit, or moving through a red light, to allow an emergency vehicle to get past. There have been numerous incidents where a police car with sirens and lights on has come up behind drivers who have had nowhere to go so have increased speed to clear the obstruction. Where they have activated a camera of any type they have been prosecuted and found guilty. Recently a motorist edged passed the stop line at red lights to allow an ambulance to go through, he set of the red light camera and was found guilty. He did not get any support from the ambulance service concerned who stated 'their drivers were the experts and it was up to them to wait or get past safely'.

Another driver was found guilty when he drove at 60mph in a 50 limit, late at night light traffic, when he was trying to get to the hospital when his wife was giving birth in the back of the car. The response from the camera partnership was 'he should have called an ambulance'.

Beware there is now no discretion unless you meet an experienced, pragmatic & practical traffic policeman, which is a rare event now that traffic enforcement is a 'for profits' industry run by civilains with the support of senior Police Officers. Do not break any laws to assist the Emergency services.

 

[cris_408518]

I agree that driving at over the thirty limit can be dangerous, but then the person that pulls out or steps out in front, or the dog that runs across is just as guilty as the driver.

And as for cyclists, they are on the roads with no insurance and little or no training yet hit one and you are a criminal.

 

[mcghee]

i fully agree with that cris.ive long held the belief that curing the disease is better than treating the symptoms.i.e:stopping folk wandering about the roads and stepping out from behind buses would be far more effective than criminalising drivers.i read somewhere,and i cant remember the exact figure,that there are hundreds of people injured each year within 10 yards of a crossing.they should be charged with jaywalking,the roads are for cars.

 

[Geordie]

Did anyone read the article in Fridays Mail,about the motorcyclist who was hit with a penalty for allegedly doing 46mph in a 30. He demanded the photos, to prove his innocence, and after scrutiny they discovered he was travelling no more than 26mph. How many lost jobs, licenses (not sure spelling is right on that one) through inept duty like this I wonder.

 

[mcghee]

You're spot on Geordie. How many people have been falsely prosecuted? How many automatically pay the fine without question? I'm of the opinion that a speed camera doesn't prove you were speeding, it only proves your vehicle was there. The burden of proof must surely be on the accuser, who can't possibly know. These cameras should be removed from service until they are proved to be infallible.

 

[Fastcat]

I agree that driving at over the thirty limit can be dangerous, but then the person that pulls out or steps out in front, or the dog that runs across is just as guilty as the driver.

And as for cyclists, they are on the roads with no insurance and little or no training yet hit one and you are a criminal.

Hi Chris

this actually happened to my husband who was driving home from work one night a couple of years ago, he approached a roundabout next thing he knew there was a cyclist embedded in his rear side window, to cut a long story short mt husband was prosicuted (not sure about spelling, sorry) fined and penalty points, why do cyclists always get away with everything, and as for riding on the footpath, don't get me started on that one!

 

[Mike_5041089]

You're spot on Geordie. How many people have been falsely prosecuted? How many automatically pay the fine without question? I'm of the opinion that a speed camera doesn't prove you were speeding, it only proves your vehicle was there. The burden of proof must surely be on the accuser, who can't possibly know. These cameras should be removed from service until they are proved to be infallible.

Craig & Geordie - very good points. On our local news last week, the Local Authority (or whoever it is that runs these money grabbers) has just had to rescind 100's of penalty pints and fines to motorists as the speed limit signage was incorrect. I wonder how many other locations also have incorrect and illegal signage? Trouble is, we don't know until someone more knowledgeable than most of us brings a test case. This was between Exeter and Dawlish