Perished tyres.

[Thingy]

I have had a disappointing day today. I had the caravan serviced at home by an excellent mobile service. Unfortunately the first thing he noticed was a perished tyre near side, and the offisde just starting to show signs of perishing. The manufacture date of these tyres is 2015, the caravan is a 2016 model under warranty, this is the balance of manufacturers warranty, the extended warranty hasnt kicked in yet. We have only had the caravan for six months, bought from a main Swift agent.

So, opinions please to the following.

Once a tyre begins to perish over what period would it perish to being un-usable. My thoughts are that it would be unsafe from the first signs, but I am trying to ascertain whether this would have been showing six months ago at time of purchase, bringing the PDi into question.

Should this be covered under the manufacturers warranty. There is no problem here yet, I am waiting to hear back from the dealer.

Lastly and most importantly, irrelevant as to who pays for them, I am looking for recommendations as to a decent tyre for a very heavy single axle caravan. I have used Matadors in the past. Cost isnt really an issue. What do you guys recommend and use?

 

[Grey13]

Have a read of this:

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/1022844/caravan-tyres-and-wheels-mo.pdf

 

[ProfJohnL]

I can see a lot variability in how people might assessa tyres condition, hat may be considered perished by one person may not by another, so definig the point at which a tyre started to perish to the point of it becomming unservicable is not going to be easy.

Its also very difficult to be able to say when a perished tyre would have become noticable, not only becuse it wold also be a mattrer of opinion, but also it will depend on how its been used and stored.

Tyres like brakes are generally considered to be consumables, in so far they're likely to be subject to considerable wear and tear in normal usage. More often than not Manufacturers warranties specifically exlude such items from liability.

The Consumer Rights act takes a slightly differnt view in that any retail product including tyres and other consumables must be of adequate duarbility and qaulity such they would remain adequately functional for as long as a reasonable person would expect. If you can show the tyres have not survived a reasonable period and the degredationis not due to exceive use or damage then you might have a case against the seller (not the manufacturere).

Just as a bit of background, caravans rarely wear tyres out, they are more usually aged than worn, so this fact might strengthen your case.

 

[otherclive]

Change them irrespective of age if they show deterioration. Swift OEM these days are Hankook Vantra which are C rated and used by White Van Man. In fact my van is earlier than yours and came with Hankooks.

Matadors not in the same league as mainstream tyres.

 

[Hutch]

If they show signs of perishing, change them, Same as OC Hankooks come out a good tyre, got two from Kwikfit mobile. Last year. A good price.

 

[Damian]

The condition of tyres is affected by many forces such as sunlight, various airborne contaminates, how and where the van has been used, incorrect tyre pressures, incorrect loading and so on.

Tyres are deemed to be a consumable item and can fail at any time, they cannot have a timescale of life attached to them as the usage is out of the control of the maker or seller.

Perished tyres and damaged tyres should be replaced as soon as the problem is found, and the problems can occur within a few days from being OK.

 

[Thingy]

Thanks all.

I do understand tyres, but never been in this position before. As it has always been a case of tyres aging whilst i have had the caravan, I have always kept them tip top.

I have had a look at the Hankooks, a very credible option. The tyres will be replaced ASAP regardless of warranty and/or responsibility.

Im not sure its reasonable that the tyres would need replacing so soon due to age. Oneof them looks quite badly perished and is to my discredit that I hadnt noticed. Im not sure its reached this state in the time I have had it. Lets be honest, a two and a half year old van that I have owned for six months, would you really expect the tyres to have perished so soon even from new. Im very firmly of the opinion that the condition was thus at point of sale, but fairdos, its not that expensive so its no real drama.

Taken in conjunction with all the other PDI failures though, the whole story isnt pretty reading, but thats for another time.

Hankook Vantra LT £72 my size.
Michelin Agilis £85 with a 10% Discount to add
Continental Van Contact 200 £74.50

 

[CustardAvenger]

My 2018 (December 2017 build) Sprite came with Laufenn tyres from the Factory. I believe these are a Hankook sub-brand for van tyres.

 

[Craigyoung]

When we bought our first van back in 2o12 it had been sitting on the forecourt for a while so when it went for its first service I was told the tyres were unroad worthy , I was gutted because to me they looked brand new still loads off tread depth but because of the age and the fitter said they were cracking in the middle & had to be changed ! Think it came in at about £14o for the 2 fitted

 

[Grey13]

Lets be honest, a two and a half year old van that I have owned for six months, would you really expect the tyres to have perished so soon even from new.

From this comment it may be deduced the previous owner or dealer changed the tyres before selling. Might explain. My van tyres are one and half yesrs old and look brand new. A two and a half year old tyre will never show visible signs of wear.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Lets be honest, a two and a half year old van that I have owned for six months, would you really expect the tyres to have perished so soon even from new.

From this comment it may be deduced the previous owner or dealer changed the tyres before selling. Might explain. My van tyres are one and half yesrs old and look brand new. A two and a half year old tyre will never show visible signs of wear.

As soon as a tyre turns on the road it will start to wear, how much it wears depends on how much it's used. Age only increases the probability it will have been used more.

 

[otherclive]

Our first van had major blow out when I thought the tyres were good. But in those days there wasn't so much helpful advice. Its tyres looked fine with plenty of treads. But my checks were based on experience with cars and motorbikes where I took tyre condition very seriously, and still do. Yet when the remaining tyre was looked at you could see fine cracks in the base of the treads and the the fitter then informed me of the difference with caravan usage compared to cars/motorbikes.

 

[Craigyoung]

Our first van had major blow out when I thought the tyres were good. But in those days there wasn't so much helpful advice. Its tyres looked fine with plenty of treads. But my checks were based on experience with cars and motorbikes where I took tyre condition very seriously, and still do. Yet when the remaining tyre was looked at you could see fine cracks in the base of the treads and the the fitter then informed me of the difference with caravan usage compared to cars/motorbikes.

Same here

 

[Grey13]

Ok Prof.

 

[Gabsgrandad]

This is a 'blowout' -- had Tyron bands fitted! Off my abbey a year or two back. Not old tyres -- van still under warranty, -- wrecked wheel arch!

 

[Thingy]

My feelings are in both camps, a tyre starts to age as soon as it is produced, just like anything else, but there has to be an acceptable lifespan. I feel the caravan should have been properly checked at PDI, which it wasnt. There have been other issues which confirm this. But its becomming par for the course in this industry. How many of you would buy a caravan of this age, knowing that after its first trip the tyres would be no good. None Ill warrant. what you would do, if aware of the issue would be to insist they were changed prior to collection.

Now I did look at the tyres in a cursory fashion, and having spent a lifetime on the road, I do have some experience, there was nothing that stood out. But I admit I could have made a better effort to inspect them. I firmly beleive that the perishing is a gradual process, and its a bit far fetched to beleive they have reached this condition since September. The caravan hasnt been idle, its been away twice on long runs, and back to the dealer three times. We have had neither excessive sunlight nor a harsh winter.

But whatever the rate of aging and perishing, I would not expect to be buying tyres so soon, without there been physical damage after kerbing for example, or a blowout.

 

[ProfJohnL]

... The manufacture date of these tyres is 2015, the caravan is a 2016 model under warranty, this is the balance of manufacturers warranty, the extended warranty hasnt kicked in yet. We have only had the caravan for six months, bought from a main Swift agent....

The information you have given here is somewhat unclear.

You tell us you have had the caravan for only 6 months, yet it was manufactured in 2016. That's 18 months of uncertainty. Whilst you don't specifically mention it points to the caravan being second hand, and not new. As a second hand product the Manufacture has no liability what-so-ever for the condition of the tyres and other consumables, so there is no point in even considering that approach.

Assuming it was second hand when you purchased it, you actually have no idea or evidence of what life the tyres had whilst in the hands of the first owner.

Second hand products sold in the retail environment must be described accurately and as a prospective purchaser it is up to you to ask all relevant questions before you purchase. Only items that are hidden from normal view might give you some rights to challenge the seller if you later find something that is not satisfactory. Tyres are very much in view, and unless they were describes as being brand new, you have to accept there will be some wear and age to them.

To have any realistic cause for complaint about the tyres you would have to be able to prove on the balance of probability the tyres were not roadworthy at the point of sale.

I don't think you have a realistic chance of achieving it if the caravan was second hand. Its a case of putting it down to experience.

However if the caravan was sold as Brand New, then you might be able to argue the tyres were not of sufficient durability and you might have a claim against the seller (not the manufacturer) But again because you have had the caravan for more than 6 months, the onus is on you to provide the evidence of the inherent fault with the tyres.

 

[Thingy]

All fair points there and I did say earlier its not something Im going to sweat over. I asked the question of the dealer, if the answer is no, then no it is and no problems.

What is concerning is that I have just googled reviews on this particular tyre, which is marked as Durun, lord knows who makes them, and there does seem to be a bit of history with this very issue.

 

[ProfJohnL]

From your response I have to assume you bought the caravan second hand.

A I suggest above, the legal point is if the caravan was supplied with tyres that were unroadworthy at the point of sale. Realistically I don't think you could prove that was the case due to the length of time you have had the caravan.

It is concerning if a brand of tyre does not last long, but it doesn't make it illegal to sell them. I would hope the poor life expectancy is reflected in their price, but even that's no certainty.

Its time to bite the bullet and get the tyres replaced, and to put it down to experience.

However the thread may bring the problem of the tyres to someone else's attention and prevent them from making the same mistake.

 

[Raywood]

Not sure if I have missed it so do not know if you bought the caravan second hand but. if it was old stock left over from 2016 then it has been standing in the dealers yard for a long time which might be the problem. Either way you have rights under the CPA that the tyres will be of merchantable quality and it looks like they were not. Have you contacted the dealers to see what they say?
Given the tyres were not safe after 6 months there can be little doubt they were defective when you bought them and you should have a claim against the dealer but the cost of replacement may not bee enough for you to want to take that further. I would have the tyres replaced whatever you plan to do because they are safety critical but if you want to take it further ask to keep the tyres to prove your case.
If you can find a good number of reports of problems with these tyres then that could be evidence that they are not of merchantable quality.
Will check the make of tyres we have in view of what you say.

 

[Thingy]

Just to answer all that Ray

yes, the caravan is pre-loved (second hand sounds grubby B) )
It has been standing a while at the dealers, hence the price we managed to get it for. Its a very heavy single axle and a push for most normal saloon cars.
Hadnt had much use with the previous owner as he ran straight into the translucent roof issue.
I have contacted the dealer, and am awaiting an answer.
And have already sorted replacements regardless of who actually payas for them. I absolutley dont take chances on safety.
Not sure I would make an issue of it with the dealer, they will either say yea or nay.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ray

Thingy has now admitted the caravan was “pre loved” so the old new stock scenario is out the window.

I can't agree with your analysis of Thingy's situation. Principally as he has owned the second hand caravan for 6 months, the burden of proof is now on his shoulders to support any CRA claim.

The problem with tyres is they are considered to be a consumable. They are designed with the fact that as they travel they will be worn away, and because of the nature of the environment in which they are located they will be subjected to all sorts of agents that will cause then to deteriorate over time. Tyres will be subjected to unintentional abuse (wrong tyre pressure, kerbing, or being stored in direct sunlight etc) that might cause increased wear or even damage that may shorten its life expectancy.

These are all variables that no Dealer can guarantee against except by replacing tyres as a standard practice on second hand vehicles.

All the seller of second hand vehicles has to ensure is the tyres are roadworthy.

Trying to prove a second hand tyre was faulty six months after it was sold raises a number of other questions. If it is claimed the fault is a case of gradual deterioration with the inference that it should have been visible 6 months earlier, Why then has it taken 6 month for it to come to light? It surely should have been picked up during the owners normal pre travel checks.

The dealer could easily challenge the claim by questioning who much the tyre has been used by Thingy, and how can he be so sure he has not caused the deterioration in the same way that a previous owner may have done. Its also likely the dealer would have some evidence of a pre sale check list which might include a tyre check.

Too much time has passed allowing for greater uncertainties. I think it would be very difficult to pursue the dealer for supplying faulty tyres without prior evidence to show the tyres WERE faulty at the point of purchase.

 

[otherclive]

Durun are a budget brand made in China. Most U.K. mainstream van makers have used reasonable tyres for a while now and to have Durun on a relatively new van is strange.

 

[Dustydog]

Grey’s original link cogently sets out “when to change tyres”.
The Dealer sold Thingy the
caravan with tyres well within their suggested life span.
To succeed in a CRA claim I fully agree with the Prof’s last paragraph.

 

[waffler]

Sorry to hear this and I would talk to supplying dealer. On our last tow car I took it to my tyre man for its half year check ( sad I know!j and we had years of tread but perished treads. All 4 wheels and the car was less than 2 years old. Had to replace the lot as I couldn’t get anywhere with guarantee. Several friends had the same problem but with older tyres. They were Nexen. New Sorento has Nexen as factory fitted. My tyre man reckoned that if treads get mud or farmyard stuff stuck in treads and then freeze this can cause perishing.