PHEV as a towcar

[figbat]

I've looked through various threads but not found exactly what I was looking for.

We currently use a Volvo XC40 T4 AWD (190 PS, 300 N.m) to pull our Bailey Pegasus GT65 Rimini (1,472 kg MTPLM), a job it does well. However we are looking at options to replace it and have decided that pure EV is a step too far, but PHEV will probably be a good option.

I'm pretty up-to-speed with cars and how they work, but one thing concerns me - how well does a PHEV blend the ICE and motor for towing? For example I wouldn't want the car to exhaust the battery and leave the car with only the ICE to pull the van up hills or in high load conditions. Is there a driving mode that keeps the battery topped up and available for torque-assist, rather than depleting the battery during the journey and leaving you underpowered when needed? And if so, does anyone have experience of how well it is deployed?

The car we're considering is a Volvo XC60 Recharge T6 AWD (largely because they don't do an AWD XC40 Recharge). I gather this comes with a number of driving modes which manage the electric:ICE usage - is there a preferred one for towing a caravan?

When not towing, this car could easily do our daily duties in EV mode - the ICE would generally get used for towing and occasional longer journeys.

 

[Tobes]

I've looked through various threads but not found exactly what I was looking for.

We currently use a Volvo XC40 T4 AWD (190 PS, 300 N.m) to pull our Bailey Pegasus GT65 Rimini (1,472 kg MTPLM), a job it does well. However we are looking at options to replace it and have decided that pure EV is a step too far, but PHEV will probably be a good option.

I'm pretty up-to-speed with cars and how they work, but one thing concerns me - how well does a PHEV blend the ICE and motor for towing? For example I wouldn't want the car to exhaust the battery and leave the car with only the ICE to pull the van up hills or in high load conditions. Is there a driving mode that keeps the battery topped up and available for torque-assist, rather than depleting the battery during the journey and leaving you underpowered when needed? And if so, does anyone have experience of how well it is deployed?

The car we're considering is a Volvo XC60 Recharge T6 AWD (largely because they don't do an AWD XC40 Recharge). I gather this comes with a number of driving modes which manage the electric:ICE usage - is there a preferred one for towing a caravan?

When not towing, this car could easily do our daily duties in EV mode - the ICE would generally get used for towing and occasional longer journeys.

I have a V60 D6 Twin Engine (previous generation V60) which has the same PHEV system as the current set of Volvo 60 and 90 series cars. The XC40 recharge is different (parallel single axle drive vs parallel Electric rear axle and ICE front). Mine has the 212hp 5cylinder diesel with a 78hp electric rear motor and an 11kWh battery good for about 20 to 25 miles solo electric only range. The V60 T6 (same car different body) won its class in the 2021 Caravan Club Towcar of the year awards. Worth reading their review.

In my experience towing with the V60 car, just sticking it in hybrid default mode at letting it get on with the job worked absolutely fine. Trying to outthink the hybrid system beyond selecting one of the 5 drive modes (hybrid default), pure (electric only), power (optimise for performance), AWD (optimise for traction), Save( keep the battery for later - e.g. driving to a city to use electric only in the built up area)) for what you generally needed is pointless. It towed our Bailey unicorn Vigo S3 (MTPLM 1550) with out any bother at all. Actually a better tow car than the XC90 (D5 185hp) in everything except space and seat count. And the 2nd best tow-car I have had. The best being the full Electric Polestar 2 which outshines the V60 for everything except max towed load (not a problem), space (also not a problem) and range (also not a problem).

 

[Buckman]

As a matter of interest, doesn't the Volvo have the same drive train as a Ford Mondeo?

 

[RogerL]

As a matter of interest, doesn't the Volvo have the same drive train as a Ford Mondeo?

Not the more recent versions - Ford sold Volvo to Geely in 2010

 

[Tobes]

Not the more recent versions - Ford sold Volvo to Geely in 2010

Ack RogerL. The last V60 (2013? first market appearance) was Volvo - Geely designed. My previous V50 used the same platform as the Focus. Does the Mondeo even have a PHEV? AFAIK it does not. Just a regular petrol powered hybrid?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Each PHEV manufacturer or even model will have their own programmes that determine how the car deploys its battery or ICE power, so you would need to research each individually to see what options are available.

However in my own experience of a PHEV, the its computer is very clever, however I have not towed with it, but in its solo modes its seems to respond to changing demands very smoothly and intelligently.

 

[otherclive]

Ford are discontinuing the Mondeo. I think that the Kuga and Mustang are filling the gap. Kuga has a PHEV option and Mustang is EV.

 

[RogerL]

Ford are discontinuing the Mondeo. I think that the Kuga and Mustang are filling the gap. Kuga has a PHEV option and Mustang is EV.

2022 Mondeo is becoming a cross-over, initially for China only, but there's still a market sector for it in North America and Europe - maybe with a new name.

 

[otherclive]

2022 Mondeo is becoming a cross-over, initially for China only, but there's still a market sector for it in North America and Europe - maybe with a new name.

According to Ford it is being discontinued and there will not be a Mondeo named vehicle sold in Europe.

Final chapter of the Ford Mondeo ends in Europe as last model leaves the assembly line | Carbuyer

Nearly two decades after becoming a UK best-seller, the final Mondeo rolls out of the factory in Valencia

www.carbuyer.co.uk

 

[RogerL]

According to Ford it is being discontinued and there will not be a Mondeo named vehicle sold in Europe.

Final chapter of the Ford Mondeo ends in Europe as last model leaves the assembly line | Carbuyer

Nearly two decades after becoming a UK best-seller, the final Mondeo rolls out of the factory in Valencia

www.carbuyer.co.uk

As I posted "maybe with a new name" - nothing confirmed yet for Europe as Ford are trying to downplay their use of VW underpinnings for some EVs.

 

[otherclive]

As I posted "maybe with a new name" - nothing confirmed yet for Europe as Ford are trying to downplay their use of VW underpinnings for some EVs.

A bit sad to see the end of the Mondeo. I have had three and all were excellent cars. The first one a Gen 1 was head and shoulders above the competition. The Chinese version looks remarkably similar to the outgoing European and US model. A nice looking motor.

Here’s a photo

 

[Buckman]

Our 2010 Powershift was one of the worst cars I have ever driven as it was known there was an issue with the software for the gearbox. Aside from the gearbox it wasn't too bad with many goodies.

 

[Raywood]

Not sure we will see anything similar to replace the Mondeo as I believe Vauxhall/Opel will discontinue the Insignia when its time to replace it for the same reasons. There is a market for this type of saloon and I think that possibly the makers still producing these will do quite well from the loss of these models.

 

[Tobes]

Not sure we will see anything similar to replace the Mondeo as I believe Vauxhall/Opel will discontinue the Insignia when its time to replace it for the same reasons. There is a market for this type of saloon and I think that possibly the makers still producing these will do quite well from the loss of these models.

I think its why the Tesla Model3 and Polestar 2 are selling so well. A regular saloon and a regular sportback/hatchback shaped car that happens to be electric too. Not a crossover, not an SUV and not a compact or subcompact hatch.

 

[Buckman]

I think its why the Tesla Model3 and Polestar 2 are selling so well. A regular saloon and a regular sportback/hatchback shaped car that happens to be electric too. Not a crossover, not an SUV and not a compact or subcompact hatch.

We would always prefer a cross over type of vehicle as it is higher than a standard saloon. It makes it easy to enter and exit if you have a disability. Currently I have difficulty if we use our Corolla as hard to exit as too low to the ground for me. In addition, with a cross over in a rural area of a narrow twisty road you have slightly better vision in certain areas being higher up.

 

[RogerL]

Not sure we will see anything similar to replace the Mondeo as I believe Vauxhall/Opel will discontinue the Insignia when its time to replace it for the same reasons. There is a market for this type of saloon and I think that possibly the makers still producing these will do quite well from the loss of these models.

This is Deja Vu.

Back in '98 Ford dropped the Scorpio and upsized the Mondeo to fill the gap - despite 5 years with no competition, GM followed suit in '93 by dropping the Senator and upsizing the Cavalier to fill the gap.

The demand for large mainstream saloon/estates in Europe has all but gone although the Skoda Superb manages to hang on.

The truth is that "everyone" wants Crossovers - higher seating positions, more spacious and more practical than saloons/estates but without the off-road complexity of SUVs, an evolution of what were called "soft-roaders" - ok, I know it's not literally everyone but a big proportion of the market.

 

[otherclive]

This is Deja Vu.

Back in '98 Ford dropped the Scorpio and upsized the Mondeo to fill the gap - despite 5 years with no competition, GM followed suit in '93 by dropping the Senator and upsizing the Cavalier to fill the gap.

The demand for large mainstream saloon/estates in Europe has all but gone although the Skoda Superb manages to hang on.

The truth is that "everyone" wants Crossovers - higher seating positions, more spacious and more practical than saloons/estates but without the off-road complexity of SUVs, an evolution of what were called "soft-roaders" - ok, I know it's not literally everyone but a big proportion of the market.

How is a cross over more practical than an estate? My Volvo and Superb estates where vast load luggers with long load areas. My dilemma when I change our present cars and go down to one car is what would I buy. Although by then I probably may not be a regular shopper at the DIY and builders outlets where the ability to transport lengths of materials is so useful.

 

[Tobes]

How is a cross over more practical than an estate? My Volvo and Superb estates where vast load luggers with long load areas. My dilemma when I change our present cars and go down to one car is what would I buy. Although by then I probably may not be a regular shopper at the DIY and builders outlets where the ability to transport lengths of materials is so useful.

I am very much looking forward to the Polestar 3 - I am hoping it will be more estatey than crossovery. I love an estate car ('99 V40, '02 V70, 02 Pug 307SW (sort of estate small people carrier), '09 V50, '17 V60). Granted Mrs Tobes loved the Grand Voyager and the XC90, and she would love a small SUV / crossover. Very much looking forward to seeing what is at FullyCharged live (including the Ora Cat).
Having said that, I wouldn't trade the Polestar sportback / hatch for an Estate ICE. Its just way too good!

But the V60 PHEV was a great estate and towcar until the full electric arrived. A full electric new style V60 would be very very interesting (and basically a Polestar 3 competitor).

 

[Beachball]

I think its why the Tesla Model3 and Polestar 2 are selling so well. A regular saloon and a regular sportback/hatchback shaped car that happens to be electric too. Not a crossover, not an SUV and not a compact or subcompact hatch.

Just depends how low to the ground the Tesla model 3 and Polestar 2 are, I would prefer a SUV or MPV would suit my personal needs

 

[Tobes]

Just depends how low to the ground the Tesla model 3 and Polestar 2 are, I would prefer a SUV or MPV would suit my personal needs

Of course - Things like the Volvo XC40 & C40, Mustang Mach E, Kia E-Niro, Merc EQA/C Hyundai Ioniq 5, Hyundai Kona electric, Kia Soul, (this list goes on!).

 

[Hutch]

Bring in an Electric Equivelant to the Vectra 3.0 Diesel turbo V6. 50 mpg at 75 mph Isuz zu engine . Fantastic tow car.

 

[Tobes]

Bring in an Electric Equivelant to the Vectra 3.0 Diesel turbo V6. 50 mpg at 75 mph Isuz zu engine . Fantastic tow car.

You just described a Polestar 2 Single Motor Long Range. (The dual motor long range is the equivalent of the lotus engineered Carlton with a stage 2 remap, and AWD )

 

[RogerL]

You just described a Polestar 2 Single Motor Long Range. (The dual motor long range is the equivalent of the lotus engineered Carlton with a stage 2 remap, and AWD )

The fastest production car in the world - that's a bold claim for Polestar as the Lotus-Carlton was capable of 190 mph, hence the calls for it to be banned!

 

[otherclive]

The fastest production car in the world - that's a bold claim for Polestar as the Lotus-Carlton was capable of 190 mph, hence the calls for it to be banned!

I thought the BMW Alpina Bi Turbo 4 door saloon was quicker? My daughter had a normal 3 litre Carlton and that was no slouch.

 

[Tobes]

The fastest production car in the world - that's a bold claim for Polestar as the Lotus-Carlton was capable of 190 mph, hence the calls for it to be banned!

Yeah - that was bold, the Carlton was very quick of its time. What is amazing is how we take what was the unusual edge of the performance world for granted now. Back then (30 years ago) the Carlton was as good as it got. The P*2 DMLR is half a second quicker to 62 without the 50kw SW performance upgrade. With it, its a whole second quicker. Sure the P*2 is limited to 128mph. But thats kind of enough on a road ;-) The current holder of the fastest production car (0-60) is the Pininfarina Battista (1.9s, 217mph top) followed by the Tesla Model S Plaid (1.98), topping out at 200mph.

But given the Battista is a hyper car, and the Tesla is a very comfortable 4 door saloon, maybe the Tesla gets the title of the modern day Lotus Carlton