PHEV as a towcar

[Beachball]

I only buy 4wd cars I like the extra traction.
Also only buy auto and SUV.

Well at present i have a Tiguan auto but the next car might not be a 4wd but i looking at hybrid SUV 2wd ..that my preferred choice for my budget

 

[RogerL]

Most "4wd" cars are 2wd for 99% of the time - that's if the 4wd still works when needed as one or two brands have a habit of failing but not being noticeable until the vehicle gets stuck!

 

[Buckman]

XC60 T6 Recharge towed like a dream and never had to use AWD as noted from another comment that it was advised if the road was greasy. Started in Hybrid mode and pulled away without ant hesitation albeit a flat road and did so for 5 miles before the ICE came in intermittently. Got caught in the Edinburgh Bypass Fire yesterday with massive tailbacks. Actually had to unhitch the van turn around and go back up the motor way. Never seen that before. 2 hours later got going again. Electric was depleted after about 25 miles but did come on slightly when braking. After Stirling and heading foe Appin near Oban I decided to try the B mode classed in America as 1 pedal driving. It certainly worked and you could see the battery being supplied as you went down hill if you took you foot of the accelerator.. Hardly had to use the brake pedal at all and battery power kept jumping in and out.. Actually arrived on site with battery level at 2 miles.. Overall towing 157 miles it achieved 24.8mpg and my 67 plate D5 was 25.4 for the same journey around 3 years ago.. Hope this helps in your decision.

Taking into account the price paid for the vehicle in comparison to a similar ICE, I would have thought the mpg would be a lot better.
When towing our 2000kg caravan with our 3.0l diesel we probably over all average 21mpg although at times I have worked it out at almost 23mpg. A lot depends on terrain and traffic.
Are you sure your figures are correct as we are looking at hybrids mainly for town use and not towing?

 

[Beachball]

Most "4wd" cars are 2wd for 99% of the time - that's if the 4wd still works when needed as one or two brands have a habit of failing but not being noticeable until the vehicle gets stuck!

i use my tiguan in 2wd all the time even when i am towing not had a problem so far .

 

[Deryck]

Taking into account the price paid for the vehicle in comparison to a similar ICE, I would have thought the mpg would be a lot better.
When towing our 2000kg caravan with our 3.0l diesel we probably over all average 21mpg although at times I have worked it out at almost 23mpg. A lot depends on terrain and traffic.
Are you sure your figures are correct as we are looking at hybrids mainly for town use and not towing?

Whilst I’ve only done around 580 miles non towing was around 58mpg. The figures are taken come the trip details as shown on the instruments. Better mpg figures than my D5 XC60 so happy so far.

 

[ProfJohnL]

ICE, EV's Hybrids and PHEV's are all subject to the same laws of physics, and if you try to move more mass you will use more energy.

Manufacturers logically design and optimise cars for the conditions they are most likely to be operated as, and that is obviously solo driving not towing.

Due to the present practical limitations of battery capacity, any increase in the total load being moved will have disproportionate effect on the range of any vehicle that uses electric traction. To put that into a more tangible comparison, 1 litres of petrol contains about 10kWh of energy. Just imagine trying to run your car on just 10L of fossil fuel to do 200 plus miles, then see what you could do towing!

The advantages of hybrids is how they harvest what would otherwise be wasted energy lost in breaking, and for full EV's and PHEV's its cost savings of buying the energy, and the reduction in the emmisions from the vehicle's.

 

[Buckman]

Whilst I’ve only done around 580 miles non towing was around 58mpg. The figures are taken come the trip details as shown on the instruments. Better mpg figures than my D5 XC60 so happy so far.

Thanks I expected lot better economy for a PHEV. We have an ICE 1300 which is 26 years old, but still gives us on average 42mpg around town. Economy on a long run is a lot better.
We have been considering the new Corolla Cross Hybrid when it is lanuched to keep until we fall off our respective perches, but may delay it until there is a marked improvement in mpg. We as still have no interest in a full EV even for around town.

 

[RogerL]

Hybrid fuel consumption depends on their usage patterns - around town, in congested traffic, they'll be better than IC cars due to their regenerative braking but on long motorway runs they'll be worse due to the extra weight/complexity.

For many retired people, their usage pattern doesn't suit hybrids/EVs - with no regular commute and often able to avoid peak times, many retired people would get little benefit from regenerative braking.

 

[Buckman]

Hybrid fuel consumption depends on their usage patterns - around town, in congested traffic, they'll be better than IC cars due to their regenerative braking but on long motorway runs they'll be worse due to the extra weight/complexity.

For many retired people, their usage pattern doesn't suit hybrids/EVs - with no regular commute and often able to avoid peak times, many retired people would get little benefit from regenerative braking.

Good post and makes a lot of sense. 👍

 

[otherclive]

Hybrid fuel consumption depends on their usage patterns - around town, in congested traffic, they'll be better than IC cars due to their regenerative braking but on long motorway runs they'll be worse due to the extra weight/complexity.

For many retired people, their usage pattern doesn't suit hybrids/EVs - with no regular commute and often able to avoid peak times, many retired people would get little benefit from regenerative braking.

Being retired a hybrid/ EV would suit us perfectly as it would remove my “ emulsified oil” anxiety through using a ICE over short distances. Such is my anxiety that we both take the Rio 1.25 on a detour and down the bypass to warm it through rather than just pop to the shop. But in most cases we tend to walk.

But seriously our daughter has recently had a new Corolla self charging hybrid and it has halved her fuel bills compared to her previous 2014 Focus 1.6 auto. Her driving for work involves journeys on A and B roads throughout Wiltshire plus two days in Bath, and her various local trips. Its surprising how well even the SC hybrid battery charges up to give a few miles on electric. On the motorway it is more economical than the previous Focus despite running on its 1.8 engine, which reflects the fact that Toyota have given attention to overall economy. However if her driving pattern was predominantly motorway the SC hybrid wouldn’t be much of an advantage over ICE, and probably not worth paying the extra price.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hybrid fuel consumption depends on their usage patterns - around town, in congested traffic, they'll be better than IC cars due to their regenerative braking but on long motorway runs they'll be worse due to the extra weight/complexity.

For many retired people, their usage pattern doesn't suit hybrids/EVs - with no regular commute and often able to avoid peak times, many retired people would get little benefit from regenerative braking.

Your first paragraph I totally agree with, but your second is certainly not universally true. I am retired and my own car usage suits a PHEV down to the groundsal, short daily travelling distances that fall within the electric only range, and occasional longer journey's where the ICE carries the distance supported by the hybrid.
As for regenerative braking, that is where hybrids capture energy that would otherwise be lost and can be reused to reduce the fossil fuel needed to accelerate.

 

[JezzerB]

I agree Prof; in fact most retired people I know do loads of small local journeys; so if you plug the car in and charge it, most of these wouldn't activate the ice. With holidays and visits further afield occasionally-for which the ice would be useful; perfect scenario and I do think the rush to EVs should allow for much further use of PHEVs.

 

[Dustydog]

I read that a phev cannot be used in EV mode when the temperature is sub zero. Not sure why?

 

[ProfJohnL]

I read that a phev cannot be used in EV mode when the temperature is sub zero. Not sure why?

I'm not presently aware of any manufacturer that makes that stipulation. Which PHEV are you referring to?

 

[Dustydog]

I'm not presently aware of any manufacturer that makes that stipulation. Which PHEV are you referring to?

The Mini Countryman and most Toyota phevs. So the papers say. Whether it is an undeclared fact or stipulation needs more investigation. It was mentioned in the DT a few weeks ago, The Mini I read on line.

MINI Countryman PHEV cold issues

During the last few days when it has been below freezing, my car will not run in full electric mode. When I press start (with a fully charged battery) the ICE fires up this is despite having climatised the car whilst plugged in. The gauge on the dash shows zero miles available and there is a...

www.speakev.com

Extract
“For instance, on the 2021 RAV4 Prime, which has a posted 68 km range, the gas engine will start at speeds over 135 km/h and when the outside temperature is under about minus ten degrees Celsius, Toyota said.

So, for at least three seasons in most of Canada, you can drive a RAV4 Prime without using any gas at all.”

 

[ProfJohnL]

The Mini Countryman and most Toyota phevs. So the papers say. Whether it is an undeclared fact or stipulation needs more investigation. It was mentioned in the DT a few weeks ago, The Mini I read on line.

MINI Countryman PHEV cold issues

During the last few days when it has been below freezing, my car will not run in full electric mode. When I press start (with a fully charged battery) the ICE fires up this is despite having climatised the car whilst plugged in. The gauge on the dash shows zero miles available and there is a...

www.speakev.com

Extract
“For instance, on the 2021 RAV4 Prime, which has a posted 68 km range, the gas engine will start at speeds over 135 km/h and when the outside temperature is under about minus ten degrees Celsius, Toyota said.

So, for at least three seasons in most of Canada, you can drive a RAV4 Prime without using any gas at all.”

It's well known that EV batteries do have an optimal temperature performance window, and each manufacturer will have their own way of dealing with Li- ion batteries operating conditions, especially temperature. Some have temperature management systems but some don't.

This is the first time I've heard of specific limitations, but I haven't been looking.

Even so it will be a rare event in the UK, and of course the driver isn't stuck because they do have the ICE to get them on their way.

 

[Dustydog]

It's well known that EV batteries do have an optimal temperature performance window, and each manufacturer will have their own way of dealing with Li- ion batteries operating conditions, especially temperature. Some have temperature management systems but some don't.

This is the first time I've heard of specific limitations, but I haven't been looking.

Even so it will be a rare event in the UK, and of course the driver isn't stuck because they do have the ICE to get them on their way.

Back in the winter my lead acid ev worked fine when it was freezing, Similarly the L .ion diy ev had no discernible drop in performance . Must be my basic technology 😜

 

[ProfJohnL]

Back in the winter my lead acid ev worked fine when it was freezing, Similarly the L .ion diy ev had no discernible drop in performance . Must be my basic technology 😜

Your OP was about PHEV's not EV's The options are wider for e PHEV or indeed a basic Hybrid, and they might see it makes better sense to to preserve the limited battery capacity of the hybrid/PHEV until the conditions improve.

Obviously a pure EV cannot switch to an alternative power source, and unless it has battery temperature management it will not work as well in low temperatures, but becasue it has significantly greater total capacity the loss in performance may not be noticed, but it would more likely show up as reduced range.

 

[Dustydog]

Your OP was about PHEV's not EV's The options are wider for e PHEV or indeed a basic Hybrid, and they might see it makes better sense to to preserve the limited battery capacity of the hybrid/PHEV until the conditions improve.

Obviously a pure EV cannot switch to an alternative power source, and unless it has battery temperature management it will not work as well in low temperatures, but becasue it has significantly greater total capacity the loss in performance may not be noticed, but it would more likely show up as reduced range.

Yes, But the batteries are the same. Or are they? The battery manufacturers say their products are good at -20 deg C. Just curious.

 

[xtrailman]

Most "4wd" cars are 2wd for 99% of the time - that's if the 4wd still works when needed as one or two brands have a habit of failing but not being noticeable until the vehicle gets stuck!

That's on older cars, my Tiguan is always sending 10 percent to the rears.
My next car a Sportage is always 5 percent to the rears in eco mode, in sport it increases.

 

[xtrailman]

Thanks I expected lot better economy for a PHEV. We have an ICE 1300 which is 26 years old, but still gives us on average 42mpg around town. Economy on a long run is a lot better.
We have been considering the new Corolla Cross Hybrid when it is lanuched to keep until we fall off our respective perches, but may delay it until there is a marked improvement in mpg. We as still have no interest in a full EV even for around town.

Don't forget the phev probs has a lot more power

 

[RogerL]

My next car a Sportage is always 5 percent to the rears in eco mode, in sport it increases.

That's well hidden information - do you have any links for it?

 

[xtrailman]

That's well hidden information - do you have any links for it?

I've read it or seen it on a video.

Another car I had always had 1 to 2 percent to the rears, it cuts down on the time needed to react to slippage.

 

[xtrailman]

The gen5 Sportage also has a dash display of the 4 wheels showing a bar graph of the amount of power to each wheel

 

[Dustydog]

Not sure about % time in 4x4?
My last three were TODs. Torque on Demand. Very clever electronic stuff. The VW uses 4 Motion. Another clever electronic driven system which senses as and when drive to all four wheels is required. Most of the time it is 2WD