Caravan Battery we think is dead even though we have solar

[JTQ]

The thread is about a flat battery and battery chargers. A solar panel helps charge a battery when the sun is shining, but cannot recharge a flat battery. Hope that helps.

I doubt it helps anyone, because its wrong to say solar can't recharge a flat battery.
There is nothing generically wrong with solar systems that inhibit them from recharging a flat battery.

Some solar kit might not recognise a low voltage battery is there, but that's not unique to solar chargers, nor is it necessarily a case with all solar charging systems, let alone "solar panels".
The ability one way or the other depends on the characteristics of the particular charge controller, be that a solar, mains or another.

 

[Buckman]

I doubt it helps anyone, because its wrong to say solar can't recharge a flat battery.
There is nothing generically wrong with solar systems that inhibit them from recharging a flat battery.

Some solar kit might not recognise a low voltage battery is there, but that's not unique to solar chargers, nor is it necessarily a case with all solar charging systems, let alone "solar panels".
The ability one way or the other depends on the characteristics of the particular charge controller, be that a solar, mains or another.

However we are discussing a battery charger and not solar panels. I have yet to com e across a solar panel on a caravan that will recharge a flat battery.

 

[JTQ]

However we are discussing a battery charger and not solar panels. I have yet to com e across a solar panel on a caravan that will recharge a flat battery.

The purpose is to try to help others from being misinformed by posted statements that are technically simply wrong.

As already said, its not the "solar panel" but the controller's characteristics that determines if a solar system can or can not recharge a "dead" battery.

Whilst you might not have knowingly "come across a solar panel on a caravan that will recharge a flat battery", that does not mean they can't as claimed.
For example:
Our Morningstar 12 volt solar controller's specification quotes it needs to see a battery with a minimum of 6 volts, which by any standards I contend to be "dead".

That technically, and with an output of up to 14.9 volts will attempt to recharge a "dead" battery.
I have not accessed the OP's controller's specification to check its characteristics, it might be less capable.

 

[IanB1485]

Just been out to a 2023 swift with factory fitted solar panel and the solar controller was complaining the battery was flat ( 10.6V) ( charger fuse popped in sargent EDU)and refused to supply any current to it - even in the bright sunshine today . The reason is that the control circuitry is on the battery side and if it seems not able to work when the battery voltage is low. I see a lot that dont work if you disconnect the battery with the solar connected ( you have to quickly disconnect and reconnect the solar panel to 'cure' the fault) . I have not tested my victron blue smart unit to see if it suffers the same design fault .

 

[borderbilly]

Ahh,good auld Fred, wondered when he would step in.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Just been out to a 2023 swift with factory fitted solar panel and the solar controller was complaining the battery was flat ( 10.6V) ( charger fuse popped in sargent EDU)and refused to supply any current to it - even in the bright sunshine today . The reason is that the control circuitry is on the battery side and if it seems not able to work when the battery voltage is low. I see a lot that dont work if you disconnect the battery with the solar connected ( you have to quickly disconnect and reconnect the solar panel to 'cure' the fault) . I have not tested my victron blue smart unit to see if it suffers the same design fault .

Is it a design fault? I'm not so sure, it is certainly a design choice, and even if it's just an unintentional consequence, it is good for safety reasons. As an electrician or electronics engineer knows, If a circuit has such a low resistance or a low back emf that would allow an excess current to pass, it should not be allowed to automatically connect to a current source, incase the current is flowing into a fault.

Even if it is only a completely discharged battery, that can have safety implications, and it's important that its managed carefully and probably started manually, rather than just automatically.

Given a 100W solar panel in good sunlight can produce 8 to 10A which is enough to heat up a short fault enough to reach the ignition point of some of a caravans construction.

 

[otherclive]

Ahh,good auld Fred, wondered when he would step in.

Is this a devious way to get your post count up? Looking through from #1 the series of posts are quite relevant to the OPs problem. Given it’s a modern top spec caravan with OEM solar panels it’s not just a simple “yes no” answer which you would clearly prefer. If you feel it has drifted why not just block the thread from your list of threads of interest.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Are folks still suffering hangovers from New Year Celebrations?

Let's keep if friendly and while posts will often stray it's really not worth mentioning they have unless it's got to the point of confusing the OP and they are new to the forum. In which case state why.

 

[Saxo Appeal]

Thank goodness!

Not completely flat… flashing orange now but did start at the first red notch

 

[Saxo Appeal]

I’ve now moved the battery charging to the garage!

Bit wary of it in the kitchen when something could happen..

 

[otherclive]

I’ve now moved the battery charging to the garage!

Bit wary of it in the kitchen when something could happen..

So the 2 amp one is going back?

 

[Saxo Appeal]

The 2A is definitely getting sent back

 

[IanB1485]

I once had a colleague ( young electronics engineer)who had a flat battery in his car, so he took it off to charge it in his garage. He removed the caps on the cells ( remember when you could look into each cell?) To check it was working he used his lighter to illuminate the area. Next day he turned up with no eyebrows! I once tried to recover a 'dead' battery - ostensibly a modern sealed one and a lot of exposed tools in my workshop went rusty - so the moral of the story is to always charge in a 'well ventilated space' which to me is outside!

 

[JTQ]

He removed the caps on the cells ( remember when you could look into each cell?)

Hopefully though the OP does.
As already said the particular battery they have requires this fluid level checking and if the battery is located so the level can't confidently be seen through the case, then removing the caps is the way its done. If it needs topping up they have to be removed to do this.

Its not as possible is being implied obsolete technology, its just different. Water loss can be one of the consequential issues associated with particular metal trace alloying of the lead done to enhance battery performance. The Energy Bull being a battery with that feature, and a good battery nonetheless.

 

[Buckman]

Not sure why my posts regarding battery chargers were removed, but those discussing solar panels allowed to stay? Two tier moderation in action?

 

[otherclive]

Hopefully though the OP does.
As already said the particular battery they have requires this fluid level checking and if the battery is located so the level can't confidently be seen through the case, then removing the caps is the way its done. If it needs topping up they have to be removed to do this.

Its not as possible is being implied obsolete technology, its just different. Water loss can be one of the consequential issues associated with particular metal trace alloying of the lead done to enhance battery performance. The Energy Bull being a battery with that feature, and a good battery nonetheless.

My Banner battery came with a small tool to aid removing the caps. Saved having to search around for a 10 pence coin in my cashless realm and prevented damage to the caps 🤣

 

[Saxo Appeal]

Ok woke up this morning and the Noco is at solid green light.

Just out of curiosity, when I disconnect the charger from the battery, there won’t be any loss of power while it sits in the garage?

Was thinking to leave it in there till I’m able to find the fault at the caravan, which we can’t get to due to snow at the moment.

Need to check if it’s the fuse from the panels to the battery, as mentioned earlier

 

[borderbilly]

Just check it every week.

 

[otherclive]

Ok woke up this morning and the Noco is at solid green light.

Just out of curiosity, when I disconnect the charger from the battery, there won’t be any loss of power while it sits in the garage?

Was thinking to leave it in there till I’m able to find the fault at the caravan, which we can’t get to due to snow at the moment.

Need to check if it’s the fuse from the panels to the battery, as mentioned earlier

View attachment 10054

I used to put mine on charge about once a month, but with a good smart charger you can leave it connected 24/7 as it goes into maintenance mode. Given your history with the battery I’d check its voltage using a meter in a week as recommended by Border Billy. If it’s fully recovered it shouldn’t have dropped by much at all compared to todays reading.

 

[birdman101]

If you leave it on Concrete Garage floor put some wood underneath it to stop it discharging through the Battery case.

 

[JTQ]

Given the history both the known and particularly here the unknown I would do a blend of Bill's & Clive's suggestions.
To check if it has developed an internal interplate drain, I would give it a couple of weeks off charge to see if it is dropping too much. Then you know its either on borrowed time or not. At least on one mode of battery failure.
Then as you have a quality smart charger, simply put it back on charge and over storage leave it like that.
Just a slight reservation, I would bring it in out of the cold and briefly put it back on charge before starting the off charge test; the present cold can throw things a bit, if your garage is anywhere near as cold as ours.
There is no issue leaving it on charge in the garage.
The 2 Amp unit would have been a bit more suitably sized for the storage use.

 

[JTQ]

If you leave it on Concrete Garage floor put some wood underneath it to stop it discharging through the Battery case.

Is that still seriously the case, given we are years on from vulcanised battery cases where it had been believed to be an issue?
I do but to keep them clean, though I believe its been long dismissed for the quoted reason.

 

[RogerL]

If you leave it on Concrete Garage floor put some wood underneath it to stop it discharging through the Battery case.

Isn't that just an urban myth?

The Truth About Storing a Battery on a Concrete Floor

Perhaps you have heard the misconception that you should never store a battery directly on concrete to avoid damaging it.

www.odysseybattery.com

 

[birdman101]

Isn't that just an urban myth?

The Truth About Storing a Battery on a Concrete Floor

Perhaps you have heard the misconception that you should never store a battery directly on concrete to avoid damaging it.

www.odysseybattery.com

All I can say it still applies to our Mobility Scooter Batteries. When we had the first Scooter 7 years ago went flat on garage concrete. We now hav 2 Scooters and both Batteries stand on plywood,and can stand all Winter and no Voltage drop at all,still fully charged after months. First Scooter Battery now 7 years old and never gone flat standing since

 

[JTQ]

All I can say it still applies to our Mobility Scooter Batteries. When we had the first Scooter 7 years ago went flat on garage concrete. We now hav 2 Scooters and both Batteries stand on plywood,and can stand all Winter and no Voltage drop at all,still fully charged after months.

Ah well, to check out your belief put those batteries on the concrete floor to see if it knackers them
No seriously, if you believe its the right thing carry on, it if nothing else will keep them freer of the inevitable grit concrete often gives off.