PHEV as a towcar

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well they are all ready dropping out of my other alternative fuel (lpg) a lot of garages have got rid of those pumps, surely they could keep at least 1 pump per station instead they get rid and install ev charging points.
My rv is petrol/lpg each tank holds 40 gallons and the house tank is a 25gallon tank for cooking,water,rfidge/freezer and heating
 
Nov 11, 2009
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well they are all ready dropping out of my other alternative fuel (lpg) a lot of garages have got rid of those pumps, surely they could keep at least 1 pump per station instead they get rid and install ev charging points.
My rv is petrol/lpg each tank holds 40 gallons and the house tank is a 25gallon tank for cooking,water,rfidge/freezer and heating
I guess it comes down to economics where garages see EV as the future direction of sales. Near us lpg pump sales have all but disappeared.

Do you mean 250 gallon domestic tank?
 
Jan 31, 2018
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No't sure if it belongs here but it just goes to show that oil isn't as ethical as we like to think it is. Just one for those who say ev batteries aren't ethical.Tragic events in other industries prove that it isn't just ev batteries that have an ethical issue when it come to production.. Any such illegal process has terrible risks and needs stopping . https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...gal-oil-refining-depot-Nigeria-kills-100.html
 
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Many current service stations probably do not have the room to accommodate one EVs charging never mind a couple fo EVs. Plus there may be a health and safety issue with flammable fuel and and electric on the same forecourt?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Many current service stations probably do not have the room to accommodate one EVs charging never mind a couple fo EVs. Plus there may be a health and safety issue with flammable fuel and and electric on the same forecourt?
That could be true, but I'm sure the industry will be aware of such matters so we don't need to worry about it. If it's allowed, it will happen.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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No't sure if it belongs here but it just goes to show that oil isn't as ethical as we like to think it is. Just one for those who say ev batteries aren't ethical.Tragic events in other industries prove that it isn't just ev batteries that have an ethical issue when it come to production.. Any such illegal process has terrible risks and needs stopping . https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...gal-oil-refining-depot-Nigeria-kills-100.html
That is "old" news as that has been happening since the pipeline was built.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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That could be true, but I'm sure the industry will be aware of such matters so we don't need to worry about it. If it's allowed, it will happen.
I am referring to the next 10-20 years and not the next 50 years. Unfortunately many current service stations cannot expand their premises to accommodate several EVs charging plus the extra costs of installing charging units. Also probably less profit.
Our nearest service station 4 miles away can only accommodate a maximum of 2 cars. The next nearest 6 cars. No one wants cars cluttering their forecourts as sale of goods inside the premises will drop considerably and probbaly will nto be worth carrying stock. The biggest forecourt is 10 miles away and can accommodate a number of cars.
 
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I am referring to the next 10-20 years and not the next 50 years. Unfortunately many current service stations cannot expand their premises to accommodate several EVs charging plus the extra costs of installing charging units. Also probably less profit.
Our nearest service station 4 miles away can only accommodate a maximum of 2 cars. The next nearest 6 cars. No one wants cars cluttering their forecourts as sale of goods inside the premises will drop considerably and probbaly will nto be worth carrying stock. The biggest forecourt is 10 miles away and can accommodate a number of cars.
You don’t need a combined service station as there are points installed in numerous different locations. Near us there are supermarket ones’ council car parks, local farm shop. You need a different mindset to begin to live with an EV. Plus Shell have some EV dedicated stations with coffee shop, toilets etc. And there is at least one company underway in installing them in roadside locations on trunk roads. There’s one on the Fosse north of Bourton.
 

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May 7, 2005
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I am quite sure local authorities, just like they are now with new home building numbers, will be mandated to ensure provision of quotas of public accessible EV charging points.
These will not need to be on present fuel forecourts, any roadside location where you could park including laybys could be viable, as well as similar mandates on car parks even those owned by supermarkets etc.

And IMO this does not need 10 to 20 years to happen, it just needs the government seeing a dragging of heels on their targets for EV take-up numbers to mandate thing change, tout de suite.

However much any of us don't want, or want EVs to be coming thick and fast, it is IMO about as pointless as resisting the tides, its coming, warts, assets and all. If we live long enough individually, it's what we will live with, so best expend effort on optimising its personal impact.
 
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You don’t need a combined service station as there are points installed in numerous different locations. Near us there are supermarket ones’ council car parks, local farm shop. You need a different mindset to begin to live with an EV. Plus Shell have some EV dedicated stations with coffee shop, toilets etc. And there is at least one company underway in installing them in roadside locations on trunk roads. There’s one on the Fosse north of Bourton.
Our nearest supermarket is about 10 miles away and I have not seen charging points installed there. Actually I don't recall seeing charging points anywhere that we normally would go however that does not mean that there are none. Also a long way to go for a Shell service station.
What I was trying to get across is that many service stations are not large enough to accommodate a number of cars parked up for about 20 minutes. The customer foot fall is severely reduced for goods within the shop. To change the store part to a coffee shop or self serve restaurant would not be economically viable for many service stations.
Unless a way is found in the near future to quick charge i.e. 5 minutes when EVs become more mainstream many service stations will probably simply shut shop creating further unemployment.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I am pretty certain that if you look at the profitability of selling Dino juice, the profit per litre is in single figure pence not pounds, and in fact a service station could make more profit from selling coffee and other food stuffs than liquid fuel.

So where as the vast majority of filling station users presently just fill up and pay, The station might make more useful profit if the drivers did need to hang around a bit longer and possibly buy some refreshments and other impulse buys.

There are generally relatively few people employed to run a filling station. But the reality is these changes are not all happening overnight, they are progressively occuring, and generally any job losses will be offset for the need to staff to do similarly skilled work in the new small shops or cafeterias opening at the charging sites.
 
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Jan 31, 2018
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I think most service stations do make more profit from people going in to buy goods, far more. That's why most do have attached shops these days. They want you in there.
 
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Jun 20, 2005
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I understand all types of EVs will be supplied with one of these to allay Range Anxiety



High Recharger Emergency Hand Crank Dynamotor Portable
 

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Our nearest supermarket is about 10 miles away and I have not seen charging points installed there. Actually I don't recall seeing charging points anywhere that we normally would go however that does not mean that there are none. Also a long way to go for a Shell service station.
What I was trying to get across is that many service stations are not large enough to accommodate a number of cars parked up for about 20 minutes. The customer foot fall is severely reduced for goods within the shop. To change the store part to a coffee shop or self serve restaurant would not be economically viable for many service stations.
Unless a way is found in the near future to quick charge i.e. 5 minutes when EVs become more mainstream many service stations will probably simply shut shop creating further unemployment.

To my mind one of the big advantages of an all EV charging forecourt is that customers can go into the shop without leaving their car blocking a petrol pump because they are too lazy to move it after they have completed filling. With an EV you have time to shop, although some rapid charging ones might limit the time available to complete a shop without blocking the EV charger.
 
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I am pretty certain that if you look at the profitability of selling Dino juice, the profit per litre is in single figure pence not pounds, and in fact a service station could make more profit from selling coffee and other food stuffs than liquid fuel.

So where as the vast majority of filling station users presently just fill up and pay, The station might make more useful profit if the drivers did need to hang around a bit longer and possibly buy some refreshments and other impulse buys.

There are generally relatively few people employed to run a filling station. But the reality is these changes are not all happening overnight, they are progressively occuring, and generally any job losses will be offset for the need to staff to do similarly skilled work in the new small shops or cafeterias opening at the charging sites.

There is a shortage of workers across many sectors. Only yesterday the Care sector advised large numbers had left because of the mandatory covid vaccine combined with better pay and conditions in retail, hospitality and supermarkets. There are still shortages in agriculture,, food processing and the transport sector, plus the endemic shortages in the NHS. It has been reported that there are around 1 million job vacancies in the country, so the change to EV will not lead to a rise in unemployment more a redistribution of labour. As happened in the last century when grooms, stable boys, saddlers and farriers became ICE specialists.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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I think most service stations do make more profit from people going in to buy goods, far more. That's why most do have attached shops these days. They want you in there.
Absolutely true, but the person will not be buying loads of unnecessary stuff and will just make the one purchase. Anyway who wants to hang around a servcie station.
I cannot remember when last we actually purchased anything from a service station due to high costs. Many people may not be able to afford to stop everyday at a service station to recharge and then buy stuff.
I guess it will only be the larger forecourts that will switch to fitting some charging points. They can have a store plus seating. This could all change in the future if recharging became a 5 minute issue or hydrogen cars became more mainstream. My money is on the latter which is more environmental friendly.
 
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Absolutely true, but the person will not be buying loads of unnecessary stuff and will just make the one purchase. Anyway who wants to hang around a servcie station.
I cannot remember when last we actually purchased anything from a service station due to high costs. Many people may not be able to afford to stop everyday at a service station to recharge and then buy stuff.
I guess it will only be the larger forecourts that will switch to fitting some charging points. They can have a store plus seating. This could all change in the future if recharging became a 5 minute issue or hydrogen cars became more mainstream. My money is on the latter which is more environmental friendly.
No one will be mandating that EV drivers would have to “ buy stuff”. Surely if they don’t want to purchase anything then they just sit in their car, or take a leg stretch whilst it is charging. They may only require a top up charge to get home where they can charge the car on their own point. Alternatively they may be on a longer journey and do require a larger charge but again the choice of how to spend that time will be theirs.
 
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There is a shortage of workers across many sectors. Only yesterday the Care sector advised large numbers had left because of the mandatory covid vaccine combined with better pay and conditions in retail, hospitality and supermarkets. There are still shortages in agriculture,, food processing and the transport sector, plus the endemic shortages in the NHS. It has been reported that there are around 1 million job vacancies in the country, so the change to EV will not lead to a rise in unemployment more a redistribution of labour. As happened in the last century when grooms, stable boys, saddlers and farriers became ICE specialists.
Thank you for adding your comment, I was not the one who was predicting mass unemployment, so I'm unclear why you referenced my posting?
 
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No one will be mandating that EV drivers would have to “ buy stuff”. Surely if they don’t want to purchase anything then they just sit in their car, or take a leg stretch whilst it is charging. They may only require a top up charge to get home where they can charge the car on their own point. Alternatively they may be on a longer journey and do require a larger charge but again the choice of how to spend that time will be theirs.
However the point is that the service station especially a smaller one cannot afford to have a vehicle taking up space on its forecourt. With petrol or diesel cars several people are constantly in and out in 20 minutes instead of only 3 cars who are taking up space staggered over 40 or more minutes depedning when they arrive at the servcie station to top up. One aisle will need to be for EVs only and be wide enough for vehicles to pass one another.
In effect due to a higher turnover with ICE cars perhaps more profit than EV topping up. Also remember that many goods have a Best before date and if you do not sell enough, the goods are binned so that is another loss.
 
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... My money is on the latter which is more environmental friendly.
For reasons that have been discussed at length in earlier threads, the likelyhood of hydrogen becoming the premenent fuel for private transport is very unlikely, and based on present knowledge of how H2 can be produced, it will never be as efficient as a battery.

As for pollution, again this has been debated at length elsewhere.
 
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However the point is that the service station especially a smaller one cannot afford to have a vehicle taking up space on its forecourt. With petrol or diesel cars several people are constantly in and out in 20 minutes instead of only 3 cars who are taking up space staggered over 40 or more minutes depedning when they arrive at the servcie station to top up. One aisle will need to be for EVs only and be wide enough for vehicles to pass one another.
In effect due to a higher turnover with ICE cars perhaps more profit than EV topping up. Also remember that many goods have a Best before date and if you do not sell enough, the goods are binned so that is another loss.
In some cases there may well be a space issue. Each forecourt will have to be treated on its own merits, but for larger stations it's less of an issue.

The point about stock and sell by dates is nothing new. Every shop keeper has to manage this issue, and as with every store in country, working out what sells and what doesn't is the basis of every business model, why should it be any different for fuel\energy stations that have shops?
 
Jul 18, 2017
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For reasons that have been discussed at length in earlier threads, the likelyhood of hydrogen becoming the premenent fuel for private transport is very unlikely, and based on present knowledge of how H2 can be produced, it will never be as efficient as a battery.

As for pollution, again this has been debated at length elsewhere.
Many years ago no one thought EVs could become the "in" thing to have. Who says that hydrogen will never become mainstream?

Anyway we all have differing views thank goodness as some are realists and others look through rose tinted specs. Eventually a middle ground is reached between both parties.

However the thread was about PHEVs as towcars. At that moment it is a bit impractical as one has to find parking for the caravan to be able to recharge the vehicle. Could be an issue for someone who is travelling solo as they will need to fit locks etc before leaving the caravan.

If you had exactly the same ICE vehicle as the PHEV would the ICE vehicle be just as economical to use as the PHEV as the ICE vehicle is not carrying the extra load of batteries therefore its range may be extended?
 
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Thank you for adding your comment, I was not the one who was predicting mass unemployment, so I'm unclear why you referenced my posting?
Really just adding to your last paragraph, as so often there are posts predicting the move to a green economy and especially EV will lead to increased unemployment.

PS Edit I did not say "mass" and said "not lead to a rise in unemployment"
 
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Really just adding to your last paragraph, as so often there are posts predicting the move to a green economy and especially EV will lead to increased unemployment.
There is that possibility of increased unemployment. No one really knows at present although it does seem likely. However that has nothing to do with the PHEV as a two car and as the John stated it has been discussed previously.
 

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