Please explain tyres in a language I understand!

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Mar 14, 2005
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JonnyG said:
they used a tyre that they could trust? a known quantity? surely that makes my "assumption" more safe...than unsafe...

Hello Johnny,
Your stated assumption about inferior product coming form certain geographic areas may be correct , but there is no actual evidence in your post that supports your contention.

It is scientifically unsafe to claim the absence of a test or result condemns a product, unless the report's authors have explained why they have not chosen not to test it or complete a report. You can only compare the products that were part of the test.
 
Aug 11, 2010
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If at some time I've read an article or come across Web page of interest to me, I don't then keep the link forever! My searches include Google Germany and Google Italy as well as the normal Google UK. What you think they are the same.. I've read many articles especially where tyres suspension and practical car electronics are concerned I don't actually care what you believe I have an optbion just as you do. Do you really believe that there is only one tyre test done into wet stopping distances and that was done 14 years ago! If that's the case you clearly do not understand how Google search works and I do not have the time or inclination to spend hours and hours twalling the Internet. So you buy the cheaper tyres I will buy the more expensive ones
 
Mar 14, 2005
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JonnyG said:
. Do you really believe that there is only one tyre test done into wet stopping distances

Of course not. Here's another one...http://www.dft.gov.uk/rmd/project.asp?intProjectID=12736
 
Aug 11, 2010
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Jaydug said:
JonnyG said:
. Do you really believe that there is only one tyre test done into wet stopping distances

Of course not. Here's another one...http://www.dft.gov.uk/rmd/project.asp?intProjectID=12736
LOL.. sorry about that, but that link does not work so is no good to check any data .. right the original link you mention ROSPA ... now if someone said to me for every 1mm of loss of tread regardless if ive got that right or not i would ask "at what speed" now ive just taken the time to re read the ROSPA site and theres no mention of what speed the test was done at but given the shortest braking distance was over 25m in the wet 30 mph seems about right . so again looking at the graph. yep i'll stick with my original post that 1mm less of tread leads to 5 metres longer braking distances but i will add ..At the legal max speed limit .. now whether i read it on a European site that would be 80mph or a UK site that would be 70 mph . ... ADAC theres a good chance thats the site i read about it 4 or 5 years ago brilliant site i believe i have put the link up on here before but to the actually report i doubt it its a big site so getting around to find the definitive report could be mind blowing tedious,but who knows i might come across it by chance . and one final thing concerning lesser known tyres owed by big tyre manufacturers like Michelin, they will be made to a cost using old technology and certainly not using the lastest rubber technology that a company like michelin will be using on its own latest tyre so they are cheaper for a reason.....
 
Mar 14, 2005
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JonnyG said:
.... and one final thing concerning lesser known tyres owed by big tyre manufacturers like Michelin, they will be made to a cost using old technology and certainly not using the lastest rubber technology that a company like michelin will be using on its own latest tyre so they are cheaper for a reason.....

It could also be that labour and over heads are cheaper. There could be economies of scale, or the materials are lower cost because they have less distance to be transported. it is not necessarily a lower quality product!
 
Aug 11, 2010
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ProfJohnL said:
JonnyG said:
.... and one final thing concerning lesser known tyres owed by big tyre manufacturers like Michelin, they will be made to a cost using old technology and certainly not using the lastest rubber technology that a company like michelin will be using on its own latest tyre so they are cheaper for a reason.....

It could also be that labour and over heads are cheaper. There could be economies of scale, or the materials are lower cost because they have less distance to be transported. it is not necessarily a lower quality product!
agreed i suppose it possible but 10 or 12 years ago i was offered some new tyres steiner or something like that was told they were made by Pirelli based on the older P6 ... maybe i choose me words poorly but P6 tyres had been superseded so to me that would make them old technology not as good as the newer tyres on offer from Pirelli .. Continental and Michelin also do the same thing no doubt as do others .ok doesn't make them bad tyres but its not going to be of the same quality with newer technology as the branded stuff. So in my mind it shouldn't be used as a comparison against the branded stuff .simply put its not as good
 
Feb 3, 2008
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JonnyG said:
agreed i suppose it possible but 10 or 12 years ago i was offered some new tyres steiner or something like that was told they were made by Pirelli based on the older P6 ... maybe i choose me words poorly but P6 tyres had been superseded so to me that would make them old technology not as good as the newer tyres on offer from Pirelli .. Continental and Michelin also do the same thing no doubt as do others .

It seems to be like most companies these days - change for change sake. They spend a fortune bringing something to market, only to 'upgrade' it within 2 years. The caravan industry is always doing the same itself, even if it's a change in graphics on the side of the van because 'it looks nicer' and they need a rebrand. If something is working why change it? Look what happened to Royal Mail, they went to Consignia and then back again to Royal Mail.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. :evil:
 
Aug 11, 2010
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WoodlandsCamper said:
JonnyG said:
agreed i suppose it possible but 10 or 12 years ago i was offered some new tyres steiner or something like that was told they were made by Pirelli based on the older P6 ... maybe i choose me words poorly but P6 tyres had been superseded so to me that would make them old technology not as good as the newer tyres on offer from Pirelli .. Continental and Michelin also do the same thing no doubt as do others .

It seems to be like most companies these days - change for change sake. They spend a fortune bringing something to market, only to 'upgrade' it within 2 years. The caravan industry is always doing the same itself, even if it's a change in graphics on the side of the van because 'it looks nicer' and they need a rebrand. If something is working why change it? Look what happened to Royal Mail, they went to Consignia and then back again to Royal Mail.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. :evil:
they say with age comes wisdom. not sure if that's true but
i for one don't get conned as much as i did when much younger..
 
Mar 14, 2005
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JonnyG said:
agreed i suppose it possible but 10 or 12 years ago i was offered some new tyres steiner or something like that was told they were made by Pirelli based on the older P6 ... maybe i choose me words poorly but P6 tyres had been superseded so to me that would make them old technology not as good as the newer tyres on offer from Pirelli .. Continental and Michelin also do the same thing no doubt as do others .ok doesn't make them bad tyres but its not going to be of the same quality with newer technology as the branded stuff. So in my mind it shouldn't be used as a comparison against the branded stuff .simply put its not as good

"You were told" Steiner were based on the P6, But that is all hearsay! You are assuming that a newer model is better than an old one, but things are rarely that simple. As Woodlands has said, sometimes a new product is no better than the one it replaces in some cases it can be worse. The point is unless a direct comparison is actually made you nor me are able to produce a sound conclusion. I stress you may be right but until the actual comparison is made you cannot rely on an assumption. Take for example the difference between supermarket fuel and branded fuels, do the claims of the brands actually stand up to scrutiny?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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JonnyG said:
yep i'll stick with my original post that 1mm less of tread leads to 5 metres longer braking distances but i will add ..At the legal max speed limit .. now whether i read it on a European site that would be 80mph or a UK site that would be 70 mph . ... ADAC theres a good chance thats the site i read about it 4 or 5 years ago brilliant site i believe i have put the link up on here before but to the actually report i doubt it its a big site so getting around to find the definitive report could be mind blowing tedious,but who knows i might come across it by chance . and one final thing concerning lesser known tyres owed by big tyre manufacturers like Michelin, they will be made to a cost using old technology and certainly not using the lastest rubber technology that a company like michelin will be using on its own latest tyre so they are cheaper for a reason.....



It's odd that the link doesn't work! It works every time I click on it. I agree there's no speed given in the detail, however unless a reasonable speed was used, the test would be pointless. Tests were carried out several times and it can be taken as guaranteed that every aspect of the test would be identical each time. The graph shows the red line almost perpendicular from 7mm down to four with NO increase to the stopping distance. If it was increasing in 5mtr increments the red line would be more horizontal. It isn't until it gets below four that the stopping distance increases. The other link (above) shows a similar result. The smooth wet concrete does show longer stopping distances. Between 7mm and 4mm it takes 5mtrs, not 15.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Michelin are calling for new tyre performance tests as they believe that the current ones are not representative for worn tyres. They are also against demands to increase the current 1.6mm tread depth to 3mm. Now that may not do much for their sales, but at least they are being honest. Although must say that after having Cross Climates on my wife's car for 6 months I can't fault them.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/552260/michelin-rejects-call-to-increase-minimum-worn-tyre-depth/
 
Jul 22, 2014
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JonnyG said:
... P6 tyres had been superseded so to me that would make them old technology not as good as the newer tyres ... .

WoodlandsCamper said:
It seems to be like most companies these days - change for change sake.
I went to replace the All-Terrain tyres on my 4x4 with the same type, only to find them discontinued. I was told it is because of stricter noise requirements. The new All-Terrains had an obviously "milder" tread. So it depends on what you mean by "good", but perhaps grip has been compromised for quietness, who knows?

Makes me laugh about the noise angle. I live on a country road where even the noisiest agricultural vehicles and farmers' Land Rovers with Mud-Terrain tyres are only audible for 30 seconds max. Yet some motorbikes passing (there are lots - scenic route here) are audible for minutes - I timed at 5 miniutes going away up the valley. But I'm not suggesting that some remove the baffles in their silencers of course :evil:
 
Aug 11, 2010
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Jaydug said:
JonnyG said:
yep i'll stick with my original post that 1mm less of tread leads to 5 metres longer braking distances but i will add ..At the legal max speed limit .. now whether i read it on a European site that would be 80mph or a UK site that would be 70 mph . ... ADAC theres a good chance thats the site i read about it 4 or 5 years ago brilliant site i believe i have put the link up on here before but to the actually report i doubt it its a big site so getting around to find the definitive report could be mind blowing tedious,but who knows i might come across it by chance . and one final thing concerning lesser known tyres owed by big tyre manufacturers like Michelin, they will be made to a cost using old technology and certainly not using the lastest rubber technology that a company like michelin will be using on its own latest tyre so they are cheaper for a reason.....



It's odd that the link doesn't work! It works every time I click on it. I agree there's no speed given in the detail, however unless a reasonable speed was used, the test would be pointless. Tests were carried out several times and it can be taken as guaranteed that every aspect of the test would be identical each time. The graph shows the red line almost perpendicular from 7mm down to four with NO increase to the stopping distance. If it was increasing in 5mtr increments the red line would be more horizontal. It isn't until it gets below four that the stopping distance increases. The other link (above) shows a similar result. The smooth wet concrete does show longer stopping distances. Between 7mm and 4mm it takes 5mtrs, not 15.
i stated the link on the post i was quoting or responding to did not work the link to MIRA. the graph above is to the rospa link which i then used as a reference ... speed isn't quoted so what would you call reasonable speed? as clearly it cannot be more than 30 mph just by using the fact the braking was all done in less than 25 metres. and in the wet .. 75 foot is given as a braking distance in the dry from 30mph .. even if today that is wrong iTS safe to assume given its wet that 30 mph was used ..at double that speed 60 mph you would need 4 times the braking distance of 30 mph and thats in the dry.... the graph is pathetic the scale and info leaves a lot to be desired if they'd had a metre scale rather than 5 metre scale the data would be clearer ..even a showing of 50cm difference in braking per mm of wear would equate to 4metres [conservatively] at 70mph.. its simply does not have the appropriate scale to show anything but large changes indeed it does not make sense although movement seems to take place at 5mm ,not 4mm and indeed from 4mm to 3mm it appears to perform worse than or atleast as poorly on asphalt as it does on concrete strange that .never the less even using that graph its clear on CONCRETE the 5 metre extra braking per MM of tyre wear is surpassed @70mph . ..
Hi prof i am just wondering is it just me that cannot assume or does that apply to all? I was told about stiener or whatever its name was it was not hearsay! the person whom told me was in a far better position to know such things more than you or i. i believe branded fuel like BP and Shell is superior to supermarket fuel with or without lab test! frankly we cannot wait years for the powers that be to do a lab test sometimes you have to go by your own observations and kept records and try to take the guesswork out of it. lets take a look at the scientific world of Lab test or so called control testing .... MPG .. in my driving time i recall 3 different standards for testing mpg non have been close to accurate . now this tyre standard comes along in 2012 to help the punter with his tyre choice turns out there a load of tosh as well, like Clive states Michelin reckon there useless not fit for purpose does make me. wonder are the Chinese and other cheap tyre makers are they making tyres that score highly in these test and then quickly degrade in.performance. can i not say that do i have to wait for proof ,proof from where ? frankly i havent got the time to wait for a test to be done to find out, might take years instead i will take note of Michelin surely they should know what they are talking about...
 

Parksy

Moderator
Nov 12, 2009
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SamandRose said:
I need to replace the tyres on my caravan.

The details on the existing tyres are "165R13C". This doesn't match anything offered by tyresonthedrive.com, but seems to translate using Google to "165/80R13C" (which does). Is this correct?

The existing tyres are also marked "94/93N". I understand that the numbers indicate load capacity and N is a speed rating, but what loads, and what speed? Where can I find this out?

Are tyres made specifically for caravans/trailers or will a "commercial" tyre suffice (provided that the load and speed ratings are suitable)?

And lastly, given that the mileage on the tyres will not be huge, is there any advantage to choosing a premium or mainstream, as opposed to a 'value' brand?

If it's of any use (or interest) my caravan is a single-axle Avondale Dart, MTPLM 1250kg.

Thanks in anticipation!

Above is the quote of the original post.

The title of this topic reads: ' Please explain tyres in a language I understand!'
There doesn't seem to be much grip when it comes to staying on topic so please either steer back to the question that was asked or put the brakes on
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Parksy said:
'
There doesn't seem to be much grip when it comes to staying on topic so please either steer back to the question that was asked or put the brakes on ]

Yes! I'll go along with that Parksy. I started loosing the will to live several days ago. :lol:
 
Dec 6, 2013
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Thanks Parksy

I think the discussion has stemmed from my "mainstream versus value brand" question. What I really meant by that was that, given that caravans use commercial vehicle tyres, is any difference in performance primarily going to be wear-related (which is unlikely to be relevant for a caravan that will cover far lower mileages than a van) or could these also degrade faster in which case it's a much more important consideration?

Anyway, I've found that I can get Hankook tyres fitted at the storage yard, and if they were Avondale's choice (thanks Jaydug for your original response) they're what I'll go for.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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SamandRose, Strangley enough through your posting I have found that The Hankooks for my van at the best price from those Quick fit people, that know about Tyron band , and do it mobile.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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SamandRose said:
I think the discussion has stemmed from my "mainstream versus value brand" question..

If you stick to those termed as "mid-budget", you won't go far wrong. Certainly the Hankook company is within that group. Ever since 1989 my towcars have always come new with Michelin tyres but as soon as they've required new tyres, I've gone for Nexen or previously, Khumo. Often the replacement tyres have lasted longer than the originals. Certainly performance has been as good, although I'm normally quite a sedate driver.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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SamandRose said:
I need to replace the tyres on my caravan.

The details on the existing tyres are "165R13C". This doesn't match anything offered by tyresonthedrive.com, but seems to translate using Google to "165/80R13C" (which does). Is this correct?

The existing tyres are also marked "94/93N". I understand that the numbers indicate load capacity and N is a speed rating, but what loads, and what speed? Where can I find this out?

Are tyres made specifically for caravans/trailers or will a "commercial" tyre suffice (provided that the load and speed ratings are suitable)?

And lastly, given that the mileage on the tyres will not be huge, is there any advantage to choosing a premium or mainstream, as opposed to a 'value' brand?

If it's of any use (or interest) my caravan is a single-axle Avondale Dart, MTPLM 1250kg.

Thanks in anticipation!

Right Back to basics!

You need to ensure the tyres you get are the same size and load rating as were originally fitted. Your tyre supplier should be able to advise about the direct equivalent sizes, at least if they get it wrong you have the Consumer Rights Act to force them to put it right!

As for the make of tyre, provided the tyre is approved to be sold in the UK, it will at least meet minimum standards of grip and noise.

I am not convinced that going for an expensive branded tyre for a caravan is necessary. If you compare the life of tyre on a car and those on caravans, there are some important differences:

The tyres on a caravan do not have to transfer acceleration power through the tread that is only the driven wheels on the tow vehicle. Nor do they have to handle the side loads of cornering in the same way as on a car, becasue the car leads and in essence the caravan just follows.

Caravan tyres do tend to carry more weight per tyre, but the load rating should be chosen for the weight of the caravan. And yes, both caravans and car tyres have to handle braking forces, but here again the caravan tyre should be built to handle these forces as part of its load index. But even then the braking loads are still likely to be considerably less than for a solo car becasue towed outfits tend to be driven slower, and the energy transfer involved with both braking and accelerating is proportional to the square of the speed difference

In general its likely the average caravan tyre will be less stressed than the tyres on a car if for no other reason than the fact most caravans only do a fraction of the mileage of most cars. As a consequence tyre wear is usually not a problem with caravans, its more likely age and lack of use that will precipitate the need for a tyre change.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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A little bit off track, but a few years ago I bought a set (4 ) tyres Dunlop Sp sport 7000. For my vectra 3000 v6 . After 200 mils decided they didnt hanle well. Contactaed Dunlop. They advised me NOT to drive the Car except to,the supllier who would replace the tyres with a replacment. .
The tyres were appatently made by Dunlop in Malasysia, an had EU marking but would never get up to heat to be effective in the Uk.
And should never had been supplied to the UK. .
 
Jul 15, 2008
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SamandRose said:
Anyway, I've found that I can get Hankook tyres fitted at the storage yard, and if they were Avondale's choice (thanks Jaydug for your original response) they're what I'll go for.

.....a user report.

I have had Hankook Ra08 175R13C tyres on my caravan for 6 years.
They have covered 30,000 miles with no issues.
The tread is half worn.
They are the best tyres I have had on my caravan and I have had Bridgstones and Avons before.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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Replacing my Caravan tyre with ahHankookw, Wet braking markings "A" the van has brakes as well. I TOUR all year round, not just 4 months of a year.
Nothing bad to the mid year tourers.
 

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