PLEASE.......Slow Down.

[Ogre]

My wife and I post this thread about this time every year in the hope that it just might get through to some of you caravanners that come down here to the Westcountry, where we live (Torquay).

We are both caravanners, and have owned and towed caravans for over 24 years now.

I work in Exeter, and my wife works in Plymouth. I'm in the emergency services, and she is a nurse, so please be aware that we know exactly what we are talking about.

This year , so far, the M5 has been closed three times for overturned caravan accidents. All three incidents have been caused by the owner of the caravn unit SPEEDING and losing control of the rig.

One driver has NOT returned home. He is DEAD. He lost the caravan, his car, and his life, and leaves his wife and three small children to pick up their lives.

Please do not exceed the 60 mph MAXIMUM speed limit for towing, and please only travel at a speed where you are always in full control of your outfit.

Some caravanners are travelling at well over 70mph on Devon and Cornwall roads. Absolutely stupid. Showing off, and totally arrogant and illegal. No thought for other road users. At that speed, you will have no chance whatsoever of stopping your rig in an emergency. you will crash, and you will probably cause others to crash by your stupidity.

I don't want to have to come out and clear your mess off the roads. My wife doesn't want to have to call another Doctor to break fatal news to a family.

We all like to think that we set off, and will never have an accident, but unfortunately there are some amongst us, who for whatever reason, have to get their foot down and show off when they are towing their caravans.

You may well have that big, powerful car, nobody cares anyway. You may well be experienced. You may well be an absolute whizz kid at towing.........but PLEASE don't become another statistic on our serious injury or fatalities lists by being an IDIOT behind the wheel and SHOWING OFF.

Enjoy your holidays.

 

[mcghee]

While I fully understand your sentiments, and aware of the reason you are so blunt in your post, I can't help feeling its maybe a bit strong.

You say that speeding was the cause of all three incidents, and I trust that this is the official viewpoint on them rather than one man's take.

Also please remember that while you're calling the drivers responsible for these incidents show offs and idiots one man has died. While he may have solely responsible for his own demise, its still not nice to criticize the dead.

You do make some valid points that some would do well to heed though.

 

[trucker]

Yet another one yesterday between Tiverton and Wellington M5 north.

happened seconds before I went past, people running up the hard shoulder to help.

Car on its roof and caravan nose first into the verge.

I drive a lorry for a living and see idiots driving at speeds with the caravan in tow which puts a shiver down my spine.

Also there are alot of outfits which appear not a good match if not illegal with noses sometimes nealy touching the ground.

Although I may not agree with the words of Keith, I see where he is comming from although I have no facts to back up such statements.

It is rather chilling though to see car and caravan in such a state.

Hope all was ok

Kevin H

 

[Lutz]

I would have thought that according to the laws of probability the percentage of reckless drivers out of the total would not be any different for those towing caravans as those driving solo, so I see the appeal for safer driving to apply to all and one shouldn't single out the caravan fraternity.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Thank you for taking the trouble to write with this timely warning

You must find it harrowing dealing with the effects of "accidents"

I take no exception to you singling out caravaners as this is a caravan forum and where better for you to try to pass on your message of good will.

Forewarned is forearmed

Many inexperienced caravaners try to make up time downhill instead of using engine braking via a lower gear.

I like the system in France where they give a speed limit countdown for towing vehicles approaching a steep descent

 

[Ogre]

Mr McGhee.

Facts are where incidents have been investigated and proven.

These are such cases.

In the course of our work, I cannot, for confidentiality and public service reasons, divulge everything I know about these incidents.

I can, however, assure you of their factuality. As such I try to warn others as to their actions when they drive in a careless or reckless manner with a caravan in tow, and being liable to injure others due to those actions.

I apologise if you feel it's a bit strong, but I can assure you that seeing the results of poor driving out there on the carriageways of Devon's roads, also needs a very strong stomach sometimes.

Please bear in mind that it's people like us who have to come and clear up the mess, deal with the bereaved, and deal with the deceased. It's far from pleasant, I can assure you.

Careful and considerate drivers with caravans far outweigh the small percentage who unfortunately make their own rules.

 

[Ogre]

Mr McGhee. Nobody is criticising the dead, as you put it.

This man could well have killed several other people by the reckless way he was driving. He was travelling at a remote camera filmed speed of over 80mph just prior to the accident.

 

[Guest]

Totally off topic posting removed.

The subject is about visitors to the West Country (and also applies to other tourist areas in the UK), NOT about the Police or any other Emergency service.

Mod 2

 

[Steve L]

Now then before the barage of pot calling kettle black comes flying over the wall, I am like anyone else guilty of bending the rules.

However, it is realy beyond me why people have to rush when travelling either on holiday or going to appointments. I always leave earlier than needed so that should I get stuck in traffic or have a puncture I have time to make alternateive arrangements. For instance I leave 30 mins earlier than needed to travel 50 miles to Birmingham for a hospital appointment and have never been late or needed to speed/drive recklessly to get there.

I think that besides speed, there is also a load distibution issue that often upset's the momentum of a trailer/car combo and then of coarse there is a lack of driver training/awareness. Also these days the manufacturers are packing more and more "home comforts" into caravans which in turn makes for longer and heavier vans. In the process of trying to get the most goodies in the lightest van, twin axles are forgotten an only the largest vans where it is just physically impossible to manage with one axle. On saying that there are vans of 20ft body length on a single axle available.

Having towed both single and twin axle vans, I can honestly say that twin axles are much more inherantly stable.

I've also said this before. Most drivers today have realy got no idea how their vehicle perform in exicution of an emergencey action, because they rely on the gizmo's of ABS, air bags,SIPS etc to do the work for them. Before all the automated gizmo's drivers had to understand their vehicle's behaviour so why become complacent now!

As you may of guessed by now I share Kieth's sentaments completely and do urge all holiday makers to take it steady, because the holiday started the minit you loaded the car, not when you get to the beach. Relax and chill.

Finally as an experimental engineer who has worked in the second tier motor industry for neumerous years, I have test driven vehicles four times more powerfull than your average Mondeo and driven them to the very limit of their capability, but all of this was done under the strictest of safety conditions and after me having extensive driver training.

It doesn't matter how skilled or experienced you are, it's the hapless fool who does the unexpected that often set's off a sequence of events that determine's your fate.

At least once a month while driving in town I see a person sat in the drivers seat of their parked car fiddling with their hair, so I slow down and more often than not they just fling open the car door without looking and jump out. I'm sure you can imagine the shocked look on their face, but what if I was not so attentive? Another RTA on the statistics and more knocking on doors to give bad news!!

Steve L.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Now then before the barage of pot calling kettle black comes flying over the wall, I am like anyone else guilty of bending the rules.

However, it is realy beyond me why people have to rush when travelling either on holiday or going to appointments. I always leave earlier than needed so that should I get stuck in traffic or have a puncture I have time to make alternateive arrangements. For instance I leave 30 mins earlier than needed to travel 50 miles to Birmingham for a hospital appointment and have never been late or needed to speed/drive recklessly to get there.

I think that besides speed, there is also a load distibution issue that often upset's the momentum of a trailer/car combo and then of coarse there is a lack of driver training/awareness. Also these days the manufacturers are packing more and more "home comforts" into caravans which in turn makes for longer and heavier vans. In the process of trying to get the most goodies in the lightest van, twin axles are forgotten an only the largest vans where it is just physically impossible to manage with one axle. On saying that there are vans of 20ft body length on a single axle available.

Having towed both single and twin axle vans, I can honestly say that twin axles are much more inherantly stable.

I've also said this before. Most drivers today have realy got no idea how their vehicle perform in exicution of an emergencey action, because they rely on the gizmo's of ABS, air bags,SIPS etc to do the work for them. Before all the automated gizmo's drivers had to understand their vehicle's behaviour so why become complacent now!

As you may of guessed by now I share Kieth's sentaments completely and do urge all holiday makers to take it steady, because the holiday started the minit you loaded the car, not when you get to the beach. Relax and chill.

Finally as an experimental engineer who has worked in the second tier motor industry for neumerous years, I have test driven vehicles four times more powerfull than your average Mondeo and driven them to the very limit of their capability, but all of this was done under the strictest of safety conditions and after me having extensive driver training.

It doesn't matter how skilled or experienced you are, it's the hapless fool who does the unexpected that often set's off a sequence of events that determine's your fate.

At least once a month while driving in town I see a person sat in the drivers seat of their parked car fiddling with their hair, so I slow down and more often than not they just fling open the car door without looking and jump out. I'm sure you can imagine the shocked look on their face, but what if I was not so attentive? Another RTA on the statistics and more knocking on doors to give bad news!!

Steve L.

Defensive driving

 

[Guest]

My removed post was completely on topic as I am at present visiting Devon and I am also a former Devon resident and lon time caravanner with far more than Keiths towing years behind me.

Officer Keith has labeled caravanners who exceed UK limits as "showoffs".

Devon and Cornwall Police in the past had a policy of helping, guiding and advising caravanners re safe driving and towing practices as I said rather than labeling them!

This no longer seems to be the case, the police through out the UK are responsible for driving standards and should share responsibility for many accepted practices on UK roads if they do not takes steps to advise motorists of the error of their ways.

I as I'm sure many others witness foolhardy and illegal towing practices in the UK, if the Police do little or appear to little to prevent these practices some drivers may be taking unsafe risks as they consider it acceptable practice as no one polices their actions and there are lack of warnings such as downhill restrictions and wind socks that we have all over France.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

I am not in any way having a go at the police in this reply, however I think the worst thing to happen was the doing away of traffic police. I used to travel the M4 in south Wales extensively and there were many sitings of a police vehicle patrolling the motorway. Nowadays the patrolling of the motorways is by speed cameras and motorists slow down for these and then once again go like a bat out of hell. What is needed on the motorways are unmarked police cars so no one is aware of their presence and then we will all drive more cautously and within the legal limits. If you break the law and get caught tough - you will not have my sympathy. Whether you agree with the law is a different matter - the law is there and should be obeyed. I normally travel at 55-60mph on the motorways (road conditions permissable) whether towing or otherwise and find that I can make sufficient progress without causing too much inconvenience to "boy racers" etc. I would not like to be a member of any of the emergency servises having to attend a serious RTA and I admire their skills and they deserve every penny they earn.

 

[emmitdb]

Greetings,

How about the numpty in a Beemer (02 Reg)with an old van towing down at Exeter this afternoon when he decided that the National Express bus doing 65mph in the middle lane wasn't going fast enough for him so he pulled into LANE THREE and sailed past.

Not content with that he went back to lane one and, at the junction of the motorway with the A30 he didn't know what to do so he started in lane 1, and, at the very last minute changed his mind and crossed three lanes of traffic to continue on towards Plymouth in the outside lane of four carriageways.

Lord help us!!!

 

[DeliDave]

whem we went to Devon in July we were overtaken by many vans on the downhill stretch past Bristol I was amazed none of them had lost control.Perhaps I am too cautious but I ease back going downhill.

 

[Ogre]

The main consideration is this.

The more crashes there are involving caravans travelling too fast, the more ammunition the anti-caravan lobby have for potentially getting rules, costs, regulations and restrictions placed on the whole caravanning community.

Don't hand them that opportunity on a plate. It's too easy for us all to be tarred by the actions of a small minority who break the law and in doing so, give caravans a bad press.

Safe caravanning.

 

[Steve L]

Quite right Kieth.

I often get rib'd at work about caravans slowing the traffic down. I gently remind them that with my van on the back our car combo weighs in at nearly 3000Kgs and is restricted to 50Mph on main roads anyway. Also I offer to give them a chance of a go at towing a 38foot outfit.

Those that have taken up my offer have been enlightened and no longer take the mick, they now understand.

Also, I've said this before on neumerous occassions. You have the house on the back so what's the hurry, if your hungry or thirsty just pull up in a lay by and put the kettle on. Your holiday starts when you leave your home town, not when you get to the campsite.

I think these days though, the old morals of thought and consideration towards others has gone out of the window. I'm alright jack and sod the rest of you has taken over.

Steve L.

 

[Lutz]

On the same subject but in a different vein, accidents involving caravans are usually more spectacular than they really are. In general they leave a big mess because the caravan has disintegrated and they hold up the traffic more because there are bits and pieces everywhere. That always makes a good picture for the newspaper. The fact that most of these accidents happen during the holiday period also allows the sensation-hungry press instil further emotive feelings one way or the other with comments like; "Ah, poor family, on top of losing their caravan they've lost their well-deserved holiday as well" or more likely, "damn caravanners that can't drive safely, always holding up traffic on a holiday weekend".

On the other hand, to put things into perspective, one shouldn't forget that accidents involving caravans also involve disproportionately few cases of actual bodily injury. In most accidents that I've seen, the family is standing around their wreck or on the verge in absolute shock but rarely is there an ambulance nearby, except as a precautionary measure.

 

[GrahamSouthBrum]

Like Keith I work in the emergency services (red lorries), as yet not been called out to a caravan RTC on the M42, but when we talk about incidents that we attend, we have come to the conclusion that car makers are putting too much safety equipment into their vehicles (air bags/curtains abs etc) that when driven the driver gets a false sense of security in his/hers nice warm vehicle, so it will not happen to them (I include ALL drivers). Do you think that if a 6 inch spike was fitted to the steering wheel it would make people more careful????

Graham W.

 

[Lutz]

It'll probably make the owner of the car with a 6 inch spike more careful but it wouldn't do him any good if someone runs into him. Besides, let's face it, we all make a mistake now and again and I really don't fancing getting impaled on a 6 inch spike just because of that odd occasion.

I really don't think anyone gives seat belts, air bags, ABS, ESP, etc., etc. much thought while they're driving, so I doubt whether anyone is put into a false sense of security. It's easy to think so but when you're actually in the car aren't you more concerned about getting from A to B than giving all those features much thought?

 

[Meister]

Isn't it good to see that some Police Forces are actually starting to call a spade a spade and now refer to Road Traffic COLLISIONS rather than Road Traffic Accidents because most of these incidents are NOT accidents at all but are down to driver error.

Driving to fast, to close to another vehicle, using a hand held mobile telephone, reading a map, applying make-up, sleeping etc etc etc.

Real accidents i.e. unforeseeable mechanical failure or medical emergency (i.e driver having heart attack) are quite rare.

Steve

 

[Diane1]

Having just return from Devon, and having travelled on the M5 and A30, would just like to say it was not the Caravaners who were driving badley. It was the the lorries and and workie vans.

As we are quite new to Caravaning, Ade likes to stay in the slow lane at around a steady 55 - 60. But when you are in a slow lane and a lorrie and a van are tying to get past each other because they want be first at a junction where it drops from two to one Lane (Newton Abbot to Torquay) and you are forced to over into another junction is not much fun. Thank good we didnt have the van with us.

 

[GrahamSouthBrum]

Hi Lutz,

The point I am trying to make is if every one had this spike sat in front of them it would make every one careful. I know it could never happen but would you drive close to the vehicle in front in case they stopped quick, would you take a chance at the traffic lights etc.

Another thought, on any journey have you ever thought to your self when you arrive, I dont remember much of that journey. Its because we are preoccipied on other things & not giving full attention to our driving.

I am a RoSPA advanced LGV & car driver & try my best to drive correctly but am human and still make mistakes.

Graham W.

 

[Lutz]

If, as you say, one is too preoccupied with other things and not giving driving full attention, you're certainly not going to start thinking about ABS, ESP, those 6 or however many airbags, crumple zones and whatever else, so be thankful that you have them when you've made a serious mistake.