Poor Driving on Motorways

[RogerL]

The "correct" speed for solo cars on an uncongested slip road is 60mph - that speed allows you judge the speed of the traffic on the motorway/dual-carriageway and adjust your speed to that in lane 1 so you can merge into an appropriate gap between vehicles - this allows you to easily accelerate on the slip road to 70mph to join car traffic or slow to 50-55 to join HGVs, etc.
A slip road has a "Give Way" line between it and lane 1 - that's an absolute requirement, even if you come to a standstill when lane 1 is busy - no ifs nor buts, you must give way.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

yep just like I thought (far too simplistic for the average driver)

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Makes me wonder if the arrogance of some the of the posters on here spills out on to the road!........................................

 

[otherclive]

When I did a police driving course in the days when local forces were not so cash strapped I remember being told that joining traffic does not have priority, but if possible to move into lane 2 to facilitate traffic joining, but if not to ease back off the throttle. Even now when approaching a junction (solo) I tend to move into lane 2 to give myself the defensive space and allow vehicles to join the motorway. However when towing I tend not to do that but remain prepared to ease off if I see a joining vehicle needs space.

 

[Gafferbill]

.....however it is advisable that joining traffic on a motorway slip road should avoid stopping unless traffic on the motorway is at near stationary speed.
I personally would continue up the hard shoulder at moderate speed to avoid stopping for fear of a rear end shunt.
I would filter into lane1 at the earliest safe opurtunity.

I would rather risk prosecution than stop

 

[otherclive]

I would think that given such circumstances the risk of prosecution for continuing on the hard shoulder is minimal as you say stopping risks an infinitely more dangerous situation. Just picking up speed again to allow merging would be difficult.

 

[RogerL]

.....however it is advisable that joining traffic on a motorway slip road should avoid stopping unless traffic on the motorway is at near stationary speed.
I personally would continue up the hard shoulder at moderate speed to avoid stopping for fear of a rear end shunt.
I would filter into lane1 at the earliest safe opurtunity.
I would rather risk prosecution than stop

I understand the logic of that - but on most congested motorways the drivers already stuck in lane 1 would probably see you as a queue-jumper and close up to avoid you getting in !!

 

[otherclive]

I think what Gafferbill is describing is what action he would take if he couldnt safely join lane 1 under normal circumstances, not if the motorway was at a virtual halt. It is possible that traffic would close up but in my experience if you signal early when on the slip road, accelerate to around 50-55 mph, and dont be seen to be forcing your way onto the motorway HGVs will ease off, or move over (and spoil someone else's day!). Even on crowded German and French motorways Ive not really had any problems even though some of the European slip roads are shorter than UK ones. The hard shoulders are sometimes not as wide as UK motorways so you will have to be prepared to stop at the end of the joining section.

 

[Parksy]

Makes me wonder if the arrogance of some the of the posters on here spills out on to the road!........................................

Let's keep the discussion friendly please

 

[Dustydog]

.....however it is advisable that joining traffic on a motorway slip road should avoid stopping unless traffic on the motorway is at near stationary speed.
I personally would continue up the hard shoulder at moderate speed to avoid stopping for fear of a rear end shunt.
I would filter into lane1 at the earliest safe opurtunity.

I would rather risk prosecution than stop

Ah ha!
I see your cunning plan Sir Baldrick.

How would that work on the M42 when the hard shoulder is used as a traffic lane?
Back in 1980 I did similar thing as Clive with ths Police and IAM. It is still sound advice.

 

[otherclive]

Dustydog, doesnt the joining traffic just go straight into the hard shoulder lane or lane 1 after the junction? Or does through traffic just keep on the hard shoulder straight through the junction? The latter doesnt seem a logical approach to me.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

There are several junctions on the M4 around Newport where you HAVE to join the motorway BEFORE the end of the slip road, or else you meet a wall about 15 ft high!!

One example is J26 eastbound on slip where you meet the retaining brickwork at the side of the tunnel mouth (it's a short slip road as well). J27 eastbound on slip isn't much better either. The lack of hardshoulder is due to widening to 3 lanes many years ago.

 

[Gafferbill]

I understand the logic of that - but on most congested motorways the drivers already stuck in lane 1 would probably see you as a queue-jumper and close up to avoid you getting in !!

.......yes a very common driver response but not by all, so you can merge surprisingly quickly and safely.
I always thank the driver who makes space.

How would that work on the M42 when the hard shoulder is used as a traffic lane?
Back in 1980 I did similar thing as Clive with ths Police and IAM. It is still sound advice.

When the hard shoulder is in use on the M42 there will be a 50mph (or less) speed limit in force and hopefully drivers should expect possible broken down stationary vehicles vehicles on the carriageway.
It
is a managed motorway with electronic warning signage and drivers are
warned of any incidents including congestion on slip roads.
Unfortunately most motorways do not have such sophisticated warning signage.

Anyway Alan ........back in 1980 the M25 and the M42 had not been built

 

[otherclive]

I understand the logic of that - but on most congested motorways the drivers already stuck in lane 1 would probably see you as a queue-jumper and close up to avoid you getting in !!

But when it is using hard shoulder running does the hard shoulder continue through the exit slip and the entry slip as one continous lane?

.......yes a very common driver response but not by all, so you can merge surprisingly quickly and safely.
I always thank the driver who makes space.

How would that work on the M42 when the hard shoulder is used as a traffic lane?
Back in 1980 I did similar thing as Clive with ths Police and IAM. It is still sound advice.

When the hard shoulder is in use on the M42 there will be a 50mph (or less) speed limit in force and hopefully drivers should expect possible broken down stationary vehicles vehicles on the carriageway.
It
is a managed motorway with electronic warning signage and drivers are
warned of any incidents including congestion on slip roads.
Unfortunately most motorways do not have such sophisticated warning signage.

Anyway Alan ........back in 1980 the M25 and the M42 had not been built

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Makes me wonder if the arrogance of some the of the posters on here spills out on to the road!........................................

if you mean by that you should be doing the maximum speed limit at all times "or as near as possible to it" then you could well be right!!. that was the crux of the thread before my post,
remember I said surely courtesy assumes that drivers on the motorway would see the vehicles
approaching and move over into a faster lane, or is that too simplistic
for the average driver to comprehend
to which I was slated for suggesting such a thing, with quotes from the highway code.
however the last 9 or 10 posts seem to agree with me, so it is not so simplistic afterall.

 

[Raywood]

While I tend to drive at a bit less than the speed limit to save fuel I do agree that moving over to let people on slip roads get on the motorway is wise if it is safe to do so.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Makes me wonder if the arrogance of some the of the posters on here spills out on to the road!........................................

if you mean by that you should be doing the maximum speed limit at all times "or as near as possible to it" then you could well be right!!. that was the crux of the thread before my post,
remember I said surely courtesy assumes that drivers on the motorway would see the vehicles
approaching and move over into a faster lane, or is that too simplistic
for the average driver to comprehend
to which I was slated for suggesting such a thing, with quotes from the highway code.
however the last 9 or 10 posts seem to agree with me, so it is not so simplistic afterall.

remember I said surely courtesy assumes that drivers on the motorway would see the vehicles approaching and move over into a faster lane, or is that too simplistic for the average driver to comprehend

And surely courtesy would assume that the vehicle joining the motorway would not use bully tactics to join the motorway, but observes the give way lines as per the Highway Code. I quite agree with moving in to another lane to allow another vehicle to join, but that is not always possible, but a lot of drivers joining a motorway assume that they have the right of way.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

and it's not allways possible to be a gentleman with a 44tonne HGV up your jacksy and a rapidly shrinking slip road in front with nowhere to go,

 

[ProfJohnL]

The rules regarding entering, using and leaving motorways are found here:-

https://www.gov.uk/motorways-253-to-273/print
It includes instruction for speeds and permitted use of the hard shoulder and overtaking.

Any suggestion that deviates from these instructions is wrong and should not be accepted or attempted.

 

[oldsnowdrop]

Explain this one then. On Saturday I was heading up the M40 toward Redditch. As I came down the slip road to join the motorway I was at the same speed as the lorry that would have been alongside me so I accelerated to just ove 60 mph to get in front of the lorry where there was a gap before the car in front. I dropped onto the motorway at about 65 the middle lane was busy, the car I dropped in behind was doing around 50mph or less, the lorry was already indicating for the middle lane and I was braking hard because I had nowhere to go ....

 

[seth1]

Quite simple,the person in the car was saving fuel.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Explain this one then. On Saturday I was heading up the M40 toward Redditch. As I came down the slip road to join the motorway I was at the same speed as the lorry that would have been alongside me so I accelerated to just ove 60 mph to get in front of the lorry where there was a gap before the car in front. I dropped onto the motorway at about 65 the middle lane was busy, the car I dropped in behind was doing around 50mph or less, the lorry was already indicating for the middle lane and I was braking hard because I had nowhere to go ....

2 points,
1st, if you were on the slip road doing a similar speed as a lorry (55mph) why accelerate to get in front of it!!, it would have been far better and safer to lift off and drop in behind him, then there would have been no need to brake hard on comming up behind slower traffic.
2nd, by the time you entered the nearside lane he was already indicating to overtake when the traffic behind allowed, using the gap between him and the slower traffic in front as a safe passing zone, by jumping in front you eliminated the safe zone causing a hazzard,
conclusion, the speed of the car in front of the lorry is irrelevant, (as he was allready on the mororway) if you had not been accelerating as you entered the nearside lane the speed difference of 15mph would not have been an issue. as you did not match the traffic (lorry) speed but accelerated when entering the motorway from the slip road,the difference would have only been 5mph.

hows that for an explaination,

ps, I refer you to an eariler post ""And surely courtesy would assume that the vehicle joining the motorway
would not use bully tactics to join the motorway, but observes the give
way lines as per the Highway Code. I quite agree with moving in to
another lane to allow another vehicle to join, but that is not always
possible, but a lot of drivers joining a motorway assume that they have
the right of way.""

 

[Surfer]

Explain this one then. On Saturday I was heading up the M40 toward Redditch. As I came down the slip road to join the motorway I was at the same speed as the lorry that would have been alongside me so I accelerated to just ove 60 mph to get in front of the lorry where there was a gap before the car in front. I dropped onto the motorway at about 65 the middle lane was busy, the car I dropped in behind was doing around 50mph or less, the lorry was already indicating for the middle lane and I was braking hard because I had nowhere to go ....

This is just friendly advice and not meant to be offensive. Quite simple you were unable to judge the speed of the car in front of the HGV and took a chance and went into the gap instead of allowing the HGV to pass then dropping in behind it which woudl have been good practice. As the car was doing 50mph you should have noticed that the gap between the HGV and the car was closing.
If the HGV had rear ended you, it is you that would have been at fault. There is also the possibility that in order to avoid a collision with yourself, the HGV may have braked, jack knifed and caused a serious accident while you continued on your merry way. Luckily none of this happened.
Please be more careful in future as I have had this scenario on a number of occasions when towing a caravan. Doubtless others including yourself may have had this happen to them.

 

[otherclive]

That's why if I can I move over to Lane 2 when approaching a motorway sllip road whether towing the van or driving solo. If it is not practicable to do that I approach the slip road looking for vehicles seeking to join and will ease off rather than accelerate. In this latest situation as described I would have opted to have dropped in behind the truck to save entering the motorway at a speed that would have required me to shoot straight in front of the truck. In our area there is a junction on the M4 where joining traffic goes downhill and its a known accident blackspot for trailers as they over speed to join the M4 and then the sidewind, truck slipstreams or general instabilty hits them and woops!

 

[Raywood]

Caravans are not immune from stupidity. In June we were on our way South on the M6 just North of Carlisle. If you do not know it the area is flat and can get quite windy. We were in the inside lane doing just under 60 when an idiot towing a Hobby went past us as if we were stood still, must have been well in excess of 70. He was then pasing a line of lorries when he lost it, the caravan was moving from side to side over both carriage ways and how he recovered it I will never know. What amazed me was that having been warned he pulled in between two lorries and then after a couple of minutes went off again at speed, can only think he was rushing to the next services to change his trousers.