RogerL said:
they do indeed,but then they take the same stance toward inconciderate drivers!! And thankfully the magistrates courts reconise BOTH to be a problem usually equally.although worryingly some seem not to!
OK i can understand many cannot remember back to their actual car test but might i remind them you are expected to make Good progress at all times and keep up with traffic legally wise, i guess doing this would lead to far less frustrated drivers,or does this not apply anymore!
JonnyG said:
spot on JG, there was one of the many motorway cop program's on the TV a while back, a guy in a car filtered on to the motorway in front of an unmarked police car, he's speed never went much above 50mph. Eventually they pulled him over on suspicion of drink driving as he's speed was so low, they were greeted by an elderly chap in he's late 70s who explained to them that he ne'er traveled at over 50mph on a motorway, they explained to him that driving at that speed on a motorway was very dangerous and had it not been for the fact that the motorway was fairly quiet at the time they would considered prosecuting him for dangerous driving.
Re causing an accident by overtaking a slow driver, the slow driver would also be considered for prosecution as a contributing factor.
Personelly if I am not in a hurry I use the A and B roads and enjoy the scenery at a relaxed pace and leave the motorway for those who need to travel as quickly as possible to meet deadlines, and in the case of the professionals, timed bookings.
Letting your frustrations get the better of you such that you initiate an action that results in an driving incident is road rage.
Prof John L said:
Road rage John is when the actions of the driver or drivers take on a physical assault, the one on the roundabout off the M25 springs to mind where it resulted in a shooting with the loss of life, there's lots of driving incedents, but road rage was a phrase used by the media when a physical assult had taken place after a driving related indecent.
Very true RogerL, but the phrase was coined by the papers when a driving related incident resulted in personal attack.RogerL said:
I didn't think my comments would draw such a wide range of opinions as they have.
Quoting road rage where someone gets killed is not part of my discussion, nor is lowering the speed limit to 35mph on a motorway.
My point was, and still is, if you drive a car on a road, whether a motorway or an A or B road etc, then drive as if you're not the only one on the road.
HGV drivers have their own pressures (Tachographs, delivery times etc) to bear, people towing caravans or trailers etc have the law to adhere to.... It's not them I'm taliking about.
70mph is the current MAXIMUM speed limit on a motorway or dual carriageway.
If you drive on said roads above, bear that in mind.
If you don't like motorways find an alternative route.
If you drove at 60 mph in lane 1 or 2 then most of the traffic could filter into lane 3 to overtake.
Simples.
However, if you're an HGV driver or towing a caravan etc and you choose to start an overtake at the start of a hill, with no real means of completeing the maneovure then take the shame.
Wake up people, the roads are not just yours. We all need to take note of who and what are around us.
This started off as a "don't give caravan drivers grief" but has turned into a rallying call to sort everyone's driving out.
Your indiscipline / frustration can cost lives.
THINK.
Quoting road rage where someone gets killed is not part of my discussion, nor is lowering the speed limit to 35mph on a motorway.
My point was, and still is, if you drive a car on a road, whether a motorway or an A or B road etc, then drive as if you're not the only one on the road.
HGV drivers have their own pressures (Tachographs, delivery times etc) to bear, people towing caravans or trailers etc have the law to adhere to.... It's not them I'm taliking about.
70mph is the current MAXIMUM speed limit on a motorway or dual carriageway.
If you drive on said roads above, bear that in mind.
If you don't like motorways find an alternative route.
If you drove at 60 mph in lane 1 or 2 then most of the traffic could filter into lane 3 to overtake.
Simples.
However, if you're an HGV driver or towing a caravan etc and you choose to start an overtake at the start of a hill, with no real means of completeing the maneovure then take the shame.
Wake up people, the roads are not just yours. We all need to take note of who and what are around us.
This started off as a "don't give caravan drivers grief" but has turned into a rallying call to sort everyone's driving out.
Your indiscipline / frustration can cost lives.
THINK.
judsley said:
This started off as a "don't give caravan drivers grief" but has turned into a rallying call to sort everyone's driving out.
Your indiscipline / frustration can cost lives.
Thsts the whole idea of a public forum, where every one aires there opinion, and yes most times it goes a little of topic, but usually gets steered back on course. The mention of Road Rage in my opinion was quite justified, as that is quite often the result of poor driving whether be it on a motorway or any other road.
JonnyG said:
As my signature states opinions are my own unless quoted with references. The figures I gave were from quoted documents from named sources. In some incidences there may be more than one person judged at fault, but according to the Daily mail figures its still pretty rare.
So why should people disregard my last sentence, is it inaccurate? No its factually accurate, and you seem to be agreeing with it in your own last sentence.
Vehicles doing 50mph on motorways, whether cars or trucks, have never given me any grief, solo or towing unless they're hogging lane 2 when I'm towing, but that's a different issue, and I'm struggling to understand why you find it so frustrating.judsley said:
I take the view that 50% of all drivers aren't competent enough to be given licences and should be banned, but they have got licences so we just have to deal with it and not get frustrated by it because it's not going to change - the other 50% make mistakes from time to time, myself included, but again we just have to get on and deal with it.
I used to be frustrated with other drivers when I was working but now I'm retired and time has no pressure I realise just how dangerous that frustration was then, and is now - but try telling younger generations that!
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not a slow driver - I have an "arrangement" with a couple of the local Safety Partnerships where they invite me on a course every 3 years or so and provide tea and biscuits for the afternoon !
When towing we normally travel at between 50 - 55mph as saves on fuel as I then get about 24mpg instead fo 22mpg. If solo and travelling on a quiet stretch of dual carriageway road I will sit at about 50mph and can get up to 32mpg instead of 27mpg. Again to save fuel.
Size isn't everything, SurferSurfer said:
I get 35mpg towing at 60 mph
and solo 59 mpg at 70 mph
Hi prof.Prof John L said:
No we dont agree, you appear to but the entire onus on just one action ie a possible frustrated driver who may end up doing something silly ie a bad manuouvre, even though most frustrated drivers will not take a risk,merely stay frustrated and you dont put any onus on an inconsiderate driver driving too slow for the conditions, in such a case.
you also seem to think a frustrated driver is a case of road rage!! Rubbish, No it is not, but it COULD lead to road rage in a very small number of case,if we are quoting sources!..
strange your sourses amongst other are newspapers! in this specific case, Mine are normally based on barrister who write and give advice and statistics in motorcycle mags...I know who'd i rather believe were traffic stats are concerned and prosicutions...
Jonny,
Again, I must point you to my signature. I don't claim the figure are my own nor do I claim that they are the whole truth, they happen to be the information form the sources I point to. Other sources do exsist, and they may well proffer different opinions about the numbers of incidenets and the relative blame.
However I do maintain that any driver that allows their frustration to get the better of them and begins an ill judged move is dispalying road rage or what ever you want to call it.. If their frustrations are contained then they would not start the action.
If a driver is acting legally then why should they take any responsibility for the actions of someone who is unable to control their bad driving habits.
Again, I must point you to my signature. I don't claim the figure are my own nor do I claim that they are the whole truth, they happen to be the information form the sources I point to. Other sources do exsist, and they may well proffer different opinions about the numbers of incidenets and the relative blame.
However I do maintain that any driver that allows their frustration to get the better of them and begins an ill judged move is dispalying road rage or what ever you want to call it.. If their frustrations are contained then they would not start the action.
If a driver is acting legally then why should they take any responsibility for the actions of someone who is unable to control their bad driving habits.
Woodlands Camper said:Size isn't everything, SurferSurfer said:
I get 35mpg towing at 60 mph
and solo 59 mpg at 70 mph
Our old 1996 heavy for its size Toyota Corolla 1300 automatic gets over 40mpg on a long run and around town it drops to 38mpg which is quite good for an old banger. Pity it can't tow our twin axle!
Prof John L said:
But John this is the problem.
What is "acting legally".
They may not be exceeding the speed limit but they can by legal definition be causing a hazard .
It seems to me the legal adage of proximate cause should apply maybe.
Prof John L said:
But John this is the problem.
What is "acting legally".
They may not be exceeding the speed limit but they can by legal definition be causing a hazard .
It seems to me the legal adage of proximate cause should apply maybe.
Only courts can decide what consitutes "dangerous driving" or "driving without due care and consideration for others" - the mere presence of a vehicle is unlikely to be sufficient to convict. Every single vehicle on the road is a hazard to some extent, that's why hazard perception is a fundamental part of the driving test.Dustydog said:
Dustydog said:
Hello Dusty,
By "acting legally" I mean doing nothing illegally. I'm not just referring to speed misdemeanors, but any other action that is contrary to law that generates a hazard.
Yes I agree with you that if someone deliberately creates a legal defined hazard then yes of course they have some responsibility. But All drivers (and riders) must be aware of their surroundings and and be on the lookout for hazards, and make appropriate adjustments to their progress accordingly even if that means slowing down. Drivers wishing to make faster progress MUST ensure that any overtaking or any other action they initiate can be completed safely.
Sadly it is often those who wish to travel faster than the traffic in front of them are the ones that do start ill judged actions, and they must accept the responsibility if they get it wrong, rather than trying to shift the blame elsewhere.
Prof John L said:
If the traffic in front of them was doing the speed limit instead of dawdling along or pulled over into the nearside lane, then there would be no issue.
hi guys,
I have been watching this thread since it begun, and quite honestly some of the comments from so called responsible caravanners is quite a suprise, some obviiouly have not heard of time management or a light right foot!!, we all know the legendary inpatients of the taxi driver and whitevan man, but hey each to thier own, but the suggestion that all should partake in the traffic light grand prix is ridiculess expecting all drivers to maintain the "maximum speed limit at all times" is quite absurd. and I am sure has never been written into the highway code or driving test. only that one should maintain reasonable progress, the definition of "reasonable" may be open to question regarding traffic flow, but must take account of conditions and prevailing situations, ok so the speed limit in most built up areas may be 30mph, but on a sunday afternoon when kids are out playing and out on thier bikes, come on!! same goes for driving in town or city on a busy saturday.
for motor ways, well the OP said
"Why do people sit in the inside lane driving at 50 - 55 mph when the
limit is 70 mph? Some of my friends slate caravanners for "holding up
traffic" but I feel it is other motorists that need shaming. It's
difficult incorporating a driving plan whilst towing with slower moving
vehicles such as limited HGV's but people driving modern day performance
cars (a BMW and an Audi A6 were 2 vehicles of note!) don't really have
an excuse. I'm not suggesting people should drive and break the speed
limit but 50 mph in the inside lane? Come on!!"
whats wrong with doing 50/55mph in the inside lane thats what the other 2 lanes are for isn't it!! no mention of middle lane huggers or prevailing weather and traffic conditions, 50/55mph is NOT slow, it is making good progress however, just because other drivers want to go faster does not make it wrong!! or inconsiderate, what is inconsiderate is judging others by their own standards, which may be a flawed prognosis, not all drivers think their cars are an extension of their private parts
and want to be somewhere before they actually set off!!
some of us dont want to live in the fast lane but prefer to quietly go along on the inside lane as the pace of life slows down, if some cannot undersand that then quite frankly thats their problem.
finally with regards to the post that mentioned prosecutng a driver for doing 50 on a slip road well many vehicles do 50 on a slip road particulary the ones that are UP HILL, surely courtesy assumes that drivers on the motorway would see the vehicles approaching and move over into a faster lane, or is that too simplistic for the average driver to comprehend,
I have been watching this thread since it begun, and quite honestly some of the comments from so called responsible caravanners is quite a suprise, some obviiouly have not heard of time management or a light right foot!!, we all know the legendary inpatients of the taxi driver and whitevan man, but hey each to thier own, but the suggestion that all should partake in the traffic light grand prix is ridiculess expecting all drivers to maintain the "maximum speed limit at all times" is quite absurd. and I am sure has never been written into the highway code or driving test. only that one should maintain reasonable progress, the definition of "reasonable" may be open to question regarding traffic flow, but must take account of conditions and prevailing situations, ok so the speed limit in most built up areas may be 30mph, but on a sunday afternoon when kids are out playing and out on thier bikes, come on!! same goes for driving in town or city on a busy saturday.
for motor ways, well the OP said
"Why do people sit in the inside lane driving at 50 - 55 mph when the
limit is 70 mph? Some of my friends slate caravanners for "holding up
traffic" but I feel it is other motorists that need shaming. It's
difficult incorporating a driving plan whilst towing with slower moving
vehicles such as limited HGV's but people driving modern day performance
cars (a BMW and an Audi A6 were 2 vehicles of note!) don't really have
an excuse. I'm not suggesting people should drive and break the speed
limit but 50 mph in the inside lane? Come on!!"
whats wrong with doing 50/55mph in the inside lane thats what the other 2 lanes are for isn't it!! no mention of middle lane huggers or prevailing weather and traffic conditions, 50/55mph is NOT slow, it is making good progress however, just because other drivers want to go faster does not make it wrong!! or inconsiderate, what is inconsiderate is judging others by their own standards, which may be a flawed prognosis, not all drivers think their cars are an extension of their private parts
some of us dont want to live in the fast lane but prefer to quietly go along on the inside lane as the pace of life slows down, if some cannot undersand that then quite frankly thats their problem.
finally with regards to the post that mentioned prosecutng a driver for doing 50 on a slip road well many vehicles do 50 on a slip road particulary the ones that are UP HILL, surely courtesy assumes that drivers on the motorway would see the vehicles approaching and move over into a faster lane, or is that too simplistic for the average driver to comprehend,
It's unreasonable, and unacceptable, to expect other drivers to be travelling at their maximum permitted speed just for your convenience - nor indeed to use fewer lanes for your convenience.Surfer said:If the traffic in front of them was doing the speed limit instead of dawdling along or pulled over into the nearside lane, then there would be no issue.
Just accept that every driver has the basic right to be there, the space they occupy isn't yours.
Congestion is the only thing that stops me "making satisfactory progress" - I don't know where everyone else seems to find all their issues.
259colin-yorkshire said:hi guys,
I have been watching this thread since it begun, and quite honestly some of the comments from so called responsible caravanners is quite a suprise, some obviiouly have not heard of time management or a light right foot!!, we all know the legendary inpatients of the taxi driver and whitevan man, but hey each to thier own, but the suggestion that all should partake in the traffic light grand prix is ridiculess expecting all drivers to maintain the "maximum speed limit at all times" is quite absurd. and I am sure has never been written into the highway code or driving test. only that one should maintain reasonable progress, the definition of "reasonable" may be open to question regarding traffic flow, but must take account of conditions and prevailing situations, ok so the speed limit in most built up areas may be 30mph, but on a sunday afternoon when kids are out playing and out on thier bikes, come on!! same goes for driving in town or city on a busy saturday.
for motor ways, well the OP said
"Why do people sit in the inside lane driving at 50 - 55 mph when the
limit is 70 mph? Some of my friends slate caravanners for "holding up
traffic" but I feel it is other motorists that need shaming. It's
difficult incorporating a driving plan whilst towing with slower moving
vehicles such as limited HGV's but people driving modern day performance
cars (a BMW and an Audi A6 were 2 vehicles of note!) don't really have
an excuse. I'm not suggesting people should drive and break the speed
limit but 50 mph in the inside lane? Come on!!"
whats wrong with doing 50/55mph in the inside lane thats what the other 2 lanes are for isn't it!! no mention of middle lane huggers or prevailing weather and traffic conditions, 50/55mph is NOT slow, it is making good progress however, just because other drivers want to go faster does not make it wrong!! or inconsiderate, what is inconsiderate is judging others by their own standards, which may be a flawed prognosis, not all drivers think their cars are an extension of their private partsand want to be somewhere before they actually set off!!
some of us dont want to live in the fast lane but prefer to quietly go along on the inside lane as the pace of life slows down, if some cannot undersand that then quite frankly thats their problem.
finally with regards to the post that mentioned prosecutng a driver for doing 50 on a slip road well many vehicles do 50 on a slip road particulary the ones that are UP HILL, surely courtesy assumes that drivers on the motorway would see the vehicles approaching and move over into a faster lane, or is that too simplistic for the average driver to comprehend,
Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should
- give priority to traffic already on the motorway
- check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
- not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
- stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
- remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking.
colin-yorkshire said:hi guys,
I have been watching this thread since it begun, and quite honestly some of the comments from so called responsible caravanners is quite a suprise, some obviiouly have not heard of time management or a light right foot!!, we all know the legendary inpatients of the taxi driver and whitevan man, but hey each to thier own, but the suggestion that all should partake in the traffic light grand prix is ridiculess expecting all drivers to maintain the "maximum speed limit at all times" is quite absurd. and I am sure has never been written into the highway code or driving test. only that one should maintain reasonable progress, the definition of "reasonable" may be open to question regarding traffic flow, but must take account of conditions and prevailing situations, ok so the speed limit in most built up areas may be 30mph, but on a sunday afternoon when kids are out playing and out on thier bikes, come on!! same goes for driving in town or city on a busy saturday.
for motor ways, well the OP said
"Why do people sit in the inside lane driving at 50 - 55 mph when the limit is 70 mph? Some of my friends slate caravanners for "holding up traffic" but I feel it is other motorists that need shaming. It's difficult incorporating a driving plan whilst towing with slower moving vehicles such as limited HGV's but people driving modern day performance cars (a BMW and an Audi A6 were 2 vehicles of note!) don't really have an excuse. I'm not suggesting people should drive and break the speed limit but 50 mph in the inside lane? Come on!!"
whats wrong with doing 50/55mph in the inside lane thats what the other 2 lanes are for isn't it!! no mention of middle lane huggers or prevailing weather and traffic conditions, 50/55mph is NOT slow, it is making good progress however, just because other drivers want to go faster does not make it wrong!! or inconsiderate, what is inconsiderate is judging others by their own standards, which may be a flawed prognosis, not all drivers think their cars are an extension of their private partsand want to be somewhere before they actually set off!!
some of us dont want to live in the fast lane but prefer to quietly go along on the inside lane as the pace of life slows down, if some cannot undersand that then quite frankly thats their problem.
finally with regards to the post that mentioned prosecutng a driver for doing 50 on a slip road well many vehicles do 50 on a slip road particulary the ones that are UP HILL, surely courtesy assumes that drivers on the motorway would see the vehicles approaching and move over into a faster lane, or is that too simplistic for the average driver to comprehend,
According to the Highway Code, it is up to the traffic joining a motorway or dual carriageway to adjust their speed to the flow of the traffic already on the motorway.It is not up to the prevailing traffic to take avoiding action.
What the Highway Code says.
259
Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should
give priority to traffic already on the motorway
check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking
Steve WSource(s):
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTra…
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