Just got back from a drive. Amazingly the lemmings are mostly now in the nearside lanes of the M4& A419. Why? Because the other lanes are snowbound. LOL
Cheers
Dustydog
Cheers
Dustydog
One answer is to allow any speed any lane as they do in the USA.
Not likely to happen in the uk though which is a shame.
Having driven around Miami on busy highways which allow 70 mph it just works, I've found driving in the states very relaxing, they seem to drive generally slower and are much more considerate, they let you move from one lane to another and no moron beating the dashboard saying 'get out of my way, your not doing what I want you to do'.
Not likely to happen in the uk though which is a shame.
Having driven around Miami on busy highways which allow 70 mph it just works, I've found driving in the states very relaxing, they seem to drive generally slower and are much more considerate, they let you move from one lane to another and no moron beating the dashboard saying 'get out of my way, your not doing what I want you to do'.
as far as I am aware if the traffic is so heavy on a motorway that all 3 lanes are at a standstill or slow moving it is accepable to make progress in your lane, even if the outside lanes are moving slower than you are, ie technically undertaking.
similarly if you are proceeding down the inside lane with the van on the back doing the legal limit of 60mph and you come across a dopey git doing 50mph in the middle lane it is accectable to carry on and pass him on the inside providing you do not change lanes to do it, "because it would be unaccepable to slow down to below his speed say 45mph so as not to overtake him and of course it would be illegal to go into the outside lane to pass him while towing.
neither of these situations would be called undertaking because you did not change lans in order to do it the person scouse Ian describes is breaking the law by changing lanes on order to pass slower moving traffic.
it would be intresting to get the view of some of our police contibutors to post on here but I am sure that I am right in my assumtions
colin
similarly if you are proceeding down the inside lane with the van on the back doing the legal limit of 60mph and you come across a dopey git doing 50mph in the middle lane it is accectable to carry on and pass him on the inside providing you do not change lanes to do it, "because it would be unaccepable to slow down to below his speed say 45mph so as not to overtake him and of course it would be illegal to go into the outside lane to pass him while towing.
neither of these situations would be called undertaking because you did not change lans in order to do it the person scouse Ian describes is breaking the law by changing lanes on order to pass slower moving traffic.
it would be intresting to get the view of some of our police contibutors to post on here but I am sure that I am right in my assumtions
colin
Steve in Leo originally said
"Drivers young/old and male/female still persist in lane hogging. They seem to think that the middle lane is their safe haven and that they do not have to use the nearside lane despite it being totally empty for as far as the eye can see!!
A great shame we don't have more police patrols to stop this kind of thing. Strange though because the nearside lane is wider than the other two. Hence potentialy more safe perhaps?
Cheers
Dustydog
"Drivers young/old and male/female still persist in lane hogging. They seem to think that the middle lane is their safe haven and that they do not have to use the nearside lane despite it being totally empty for as far as the eye can see!!
A great shame we don't have more police patrols to stop this kind of thing. Strange though because the nearside lane is wider than the other two. Hence potentialy more safe perhaps?
Cheers
Dustydog
I would say lane 1 is much safer as you have got somewhere to go (the hard shoulder) in the event of a potential collision.
Mike
Mike
Hey you shouldnt be on the motorway with a tractor.
Seriously I agree with your comment about the twonk in the middle lane-thats what they usually are-not on this planet and without a clue whats happening around them. Frankly we need more police on motorways who can deal with such bad driving.
Or is it that driving in the nearside lane affects your social standing? Its almost as if these people get on the motorway into the middle lane and stick there on rails or in a trance!
Seriously I agree with your comment about the twonk in the middle lane-thats what they usually are-not on this planet and without a clue whats happening around them. Frankly we need more police on motorways who can deal with such bad driving.
Or is it that driving in the nearside lane affects your social standing? Its almost as if these people get on the motorway into the middle lane and stick there on rails or in a trance!
I expect that most contributors to this topic passed their driving tests, like me, a few decades ago! When I took my test in 1971 & passed first time, the volume of traffic was far lower, there weren't so many motorways, and those that were there were pretty empty, once you got away from major cities & towns.
So, I think it should be compulsory for us all to take a refresher test every 10 years up to age 70, then every 3 years thereafter - that would certainly improve the apalling driving standards as commented on, and might even reduce insurance costs due to lower accident rates.
Modern cars are far faster with much better brakes etc, but traffic densities have increased beyond most roads designed capacity.
Strange thing is, in France, where traffic speeds are much higher, and most of their Autoroutes are only dual carriageway, most drivers stick to lane one, except when overtaking and nearly always give way to an indicating vehicle who wishes to pull out to overtake a slower moving one. Mind you, that wouldn't help over here much due to the all too often forgetful driver who leaves their indicators on for miles..........Watch out especially for these, as they're probably over 70, wear a hat, and very hard of hearing!
Sadly, even those who consider themselves as good drivers have all made the mistake of imaging laws that do not exist. There is no law banning overtaking on the nearside.
If you overtook on the nearside and the act was considered to be Careless, inconsiderate or dangerous then there are charges that could be applied, but ultimately a court would decide your innocence or guilt.
As for driving standards on the motorway, generally they are dire. I usually use my cruise control and the amount of drivers who come alongside me then slow down boxing me in as I catch up a slower vehicle, or others who speed up as you overtake so you pull back in behind them, only for them to slow down again....
If you overtook on the nearside and the act was considered to be Careless, inconsiderate or dangerous then there are charges that could be applied, but ultimately a court would decide your innocence or guilt.
As for driving standards on the motorway, generally they are dire. I usually use my cruise control and the amount of drivers who come alongside me then slow down boxing me in as I catch up a slower vehicle, or others who speed up as you overtake so you pull back in behind them, only for them to slow down again....
Hi Trev.
While there may be no specific law banning an undertaking manouver,by virtue of the fact that the undertaker passes on the nearside of your vehicle to get in front with that being their prime intention, they are driving carelessly and likely to cause danger to others on the highway.
The other senario where one inadvertantly undertakes as they are in a three lane que of traffic where the offside (right hand)lane of traffic is proceeding slower due to "natural" causes, is a legal manouver.
The problem is these days people couldn't give a s**t and only think of number one!
My daughter summed it up on Friday.
She has only been driving on the motorway 4wks.
She was catching up to two lorry's who were rapidly catching up with a slower lorry in the nearside lane. She indicated and moved to lane 2. The lorry that was infront of her indicated right, so she indicated again and flashed her lights to say she was moving again. She moved to lane three and the lorry moved to lane two. At the same time the lorry in front of that moved to lane two to overtake the slow lorry.
Now then she got the v's from the lorry that was in front of her and a wave of "thankyou" from the lorry that was infront of the first lorry.
She is now in two minds about what to do next time if all she get's is insults when she was clearly trying to do what was best for all.
Steve L.
The problem i
While there may be no specific law banning an undertaking manouver,by virtue of the fact that the undertaker passes on the nearside of your vehicle to get in front with that being their prime intention, they are driving carelessly and likely to cause danger to others on the highway.
The other senario where one inadvertantly undertakes as they are in a three lane que of traffic where the offside (right hand)lane of traffic is proceeding slower due to "natural" causes, is a legal manouver.
The problem is these days people couldn't give a s**t and only think of number one!
My daughter summed it up on Friday.
She has only been driving on the motorway 4wks.
She was catching up to two lorry's who were rapidly catching up with a slower lorry in the nearside lane. She indicated and moved to lane 2. The lorry that was infront of her indicated right, so she indicated again and flashed her lights to say she was moving again. She moved to lane three and the lorry moved to lane two. At the same time the lorry in front of that moved to lane two to overtake the slow lorry.
Now then she got the v's from the lorry that was in front of her and a wave of "thankyou" from the lorry that was infront of the first lorry.
She is now in two minds about what to do next time if all she get's is insults when she was clearly trying to do what was best for all.
Steve L.
The problem i
steve
Flashing lights have no real definition under the highway code.
I expect i'll get a kicking in for saying this, but i believe your daughter showed a lack of anticipation. Sorry, but you know lorries are going to pull out, and often with little warning. If you are rapidly overhauling a lorry convoy, the middle lane is the place to be, using the mirrors to check the fast lane, for when you KNOW the lorry in front will pull out.
Maybe i have misunderstood your post, but that is what i think.
Flashing lights have no real definition under the highway code.
I expect i'll get a kicking in for saying this, but i believe your daughter showed a lack of anticipation. Sorry, but you know lorries are going to pull out, and often with little warning. If you are rapidly overhauling a lorry convoy, the middle lane is the place to be, using the mirrors to check the fast lane, for when you KNOW the lorry in front will pull out.
Maybe i have misunderstood your post, but that is what i think.
Hi Ray.
The highway code does suggest that flashing of headlights is more affective than using the horn at night and in any case you are not allowed to make un-necesary noise between 11pm and 7am by law.
Now while not strictly legal and not in the high way code,it is custom and practice for blip the headlights to signal "ok" to manouver.
In my daughter's case she obviously came across an "old school" driver in one lorry and an "upstart" in the other.
She has had advanced training from me (Iam & ROSPA trained), and as such she is fully aware of what traffic is in which lane both infront and behind at all times.
Steve L.
The highway code does suggest that flashing of headlights is more affective than using the horn at night and in any case you are not allowed to make un-necesary noise between 11pm and 7am by law.
Now while not strictly legal and not in the high way code,it is custom and practice for blip the headlights to signal "ok" to manouver.
In my daughter's case she obviously came across an "old school" driver in one lorry and an "upstart" in the other.
She has had advanced training from me (Iam & ROSPA trained), and as such she is fully aware of what traffic is in which lane both infront and behind at all times.
Steve L.
I work within the Highways Maintenance industry and I had a 1 day course about driving by an ex-motorway policeman.
He mentioned that if you flash you lights at someone to pull out or similar you are indicating that it is safe to do so.If the driver then has a crash as a result of these actions you are effectively contributing to the incident and must therefore shoulder some part of the blame.
His advice was - let other drivers make their own decisions be it safe or not.
He mentioned that if you flash you lights at someone to pull out or similar you are indicating that it is safe to do so.If the driver then has a crash as a result of these actions you are effectively contributing to the incident and must therefore shoulder some part of the blame.
His advice was - let other drivers make their own decisions be it safe or not.
The Highway Code says that flashing your headlamps is only to let other drivers know you are there. You should not flash them to convey any other message (rule 110). I know the Highway Code is not law, however, in the event of a 'disputed fault' accident/incident I think you will find the court will use the rule to apportion blame.
Conversely, as the holder of an LGV licence, I personally use them to signal that an overtaking vehicle has passed and is clear to pull back in.
Conversely, as the holder of an LGV licence, I personally use them to signal that an overtaking vehicle has passed and is clear to pull back in.
There have been a number of threads recently that bemoan the standards/correctness of of driving habits.
The latest one to have caught my eye is to do with the use of flashing headlights. I was always trained up to understand that flashing headlights should not be taken as a signal that the other driver was yielding. I have never done so unless it has been backed up with other information supporting that interpretation.
I have come across a number of instances where such signals were actually quite inappropriate and if I or other drivers had taken the signal at face value some incident would have ensued. A typical example is at rush hour whilst waiting at a give way sign to turn right across a queue of slow moving traffic, a driver in the queue stops and flashes, apparently to allow me out. What the drive has not taken into account is either a cyclist moving along his near or off side, or traffic approaching in the other direction, possibly wishing to turn right.
In another situation, a driver assumed I had flashed my lights to call him out from a side road. In fact I had not flashed my lights at all, It was night time and I had gone over a speed hump which was only 10m from the junction. Fortunately I was not travelling fast and was able to stop to avoid a collision. The other driver was adamant that I had signalled him to come out ans was highly verbal about it. He turned a little sheepish when I pointed out speed humps.
The latest one to have caught my eye is to do with the use of flashing headlights. I was always trained up to understand that flashing headlights should not be taken as a signal that the other driver was yielding. I have never done so unless it has been backed up with other information supporting that interpretation.
I have come across a number of instances where such signals were actually quite inappropriate and if I or other drivers had taken the signal at face value some incident would have ensued. A typical example is at rush hour whilst waiting at a give way sign to turn right across a queue of slow moving traffic, a driver in the queue stops and flashes, apparently to allow me out. What the drive has not taken into account is either a cyclist moving along his near or off side, or traffic approaching in the other direction, possibly wishing to turn right.
In another situation, a driver assumed I had flashed my lights to call him out from a side road. In fact I had not flashed my lights at all, It was night time and I had gone over a speed hump which was only 10m from the junction. Fortunately I was not travelling fast and was able to stop to avoid a collision. The other driver was adamant that I had signalled him to come out ans was highly verbal about it. He turned a little sheepish when I pointed out speed humps.
And thats the problem with flashing lights, they mean different things, to different people, and also in different parts of the country.
Had i been the lorry driver in question, i would have took the flashing lights as aggression, hence the fingers been displayed.
Had i been the lorry driver in question, i would have took the flashing lights as aggression, hence the fingers been displayed.
"Poor motorway standards"
and this is from a man who openly admitted a couple of years ago on this very forum, of travelling from the east midlands with his profoundly deaf father in-law and doing well in excess of 100mph to test (his words) a second hand car they had just purchased, with him taking the lead in his own car and farther in-law following! But when challenged on here he said it was quite okay as he had been track trained, a member of Rospa, I A M member etc, and he knew what he was doing! A word springs to mind............... Get your own house in order Steve, and return your membership cards to the many organisations you belong to as they do not condone such behaviour. Remember before you get all high and mighty on your soap box there's one or two of us that's been on here long enough to remember your rantings from the past, Flooded roads any one, or how about driving in snow........ Allan. 40+yrs driving exp and still learning.
and this is from a man who openly admitted a couple of years ago on this very forum, of travelling from the east midlands with his profoundly deaf father in-law and doing well in excess of 100mph to test (his words) a second hand car they had just purchased, with him taking the lead in his own car and farther in-law following! But when challenged on here he said it was quite okay as he had been track trained, a member of Rospa, I A M member etc, and he knew what he was doing! A word springs to mind............... Get your own house in order Steve, and return your membership cards to the many organisations you belong to as they do not condone such behaviour. Remember before you get all high and mighty on your soap box there's one or two of us that's been on here long enough to remember your rantings from the past, Flooded roads any one, or how about driving in snow........ Allan. 40+yrs driving exp and still learning.
Parksy
Moderator
I have no wish to upset anyone but I'd very much appreciate it if we didn't re visit old arguments and rake over old coals. I'd like to think that we as a forum have moved on from the old confrontational style and are nowadays capable of having a reasonably friendly and constructive discussion about a topic which I'm sure concerns us all.
Thanks :0)
Thanks :0)
Well said Parksy.
A constructive debate on how we can improve our standards so that others might learn from them is what this thread has been about from the start.
Yes it is me who Allan is having a dig at and yes I do deeply regret having been man enough to admit that on occassions I have used a deserted piece of road to test a vehicle's capability.
However being open and honest and being able to discuss all matters in a gentlemanly fashion is what I believe 99% of us forum contributers are all about.
Trying to instigate disruption to what has been a thread of friendly banter and some sound well thought out discussion is not cricket.
Steve L.
A constructive debate on how we can improve our standards so that others might learn from them is what this thread has been about from the start.
Yes it is me who Allan is having a dig at and yes I do deeply regret having been man enough to admit that on occassions I have used a deserted piece of road to test a vehicle's capability.
However being open and honest and being able to discuss all matters in a gentlemanly fashion is what I believe 99% of us forum contributers are all about.
Trying to instigate disruption to what has been a thread of friendly banter and some sound well thought out discussion is not cricket.
Steve L.
While I agree to some extent with what you are saying, sometimes a driver who drives markedly slower than the speed limit on a road is being the selfish moron. By this I mean people who sit in the middle or outer lane doing less than 70mph on the motorway or people who drive below 60mph on single carriageway roads. How frustrating it is to have some 'old dear' dictate that you have to travel mile after mile at 45mph on a country road (where it is often dangerous and difficult to overtake) just because the old dear is in no hurry! I have always thought that vehicles/drivers who are not capable of driving at the the speed limits of roads should not be allowed to use the roads.
Speed.
What else. I did the same with my 145mph audi, now you can pick on me if it makes you happy.
What else. I did the same with my 145mph audi, now you can pick on me if it makes you happy.
im not picking on anyone ray, i asked a simple question.
i have no problem with speed, when used correctly, and when necessary.
i worked for many in close protection and defensive/evasive driving was pretty much a daily occurrence as was the need to travel at high speed.
i needed, at that time to be very familiar with various vehicles and testing vehicles' capabilities/familiarising myself with my vehicles was necessary.
i can see no legitimate reason for anyone who uses their vehicle for social and domestic purposes to carry out such tests.
to be honest ray i find your comment deliberately confrontational, and i dont appreciate it.
i have no problem with speed, when used correctly, and when necessary.
i worked for many in close protection and defensive/evasive driving was pretty much a daily occurrence as was the need to travel at high speed.
i needed, at that time to be very familiar with various vehicles and testing vehicles' capabilities/familiarising myself with my vehicles was necessary.
i can see no legitimate reason for anyone who uses their vehicle for social and domestic purposes to carry out such tests.
to be honest ray i find your comment deliberately confrontational, and i dont appreciate it.
Damian
Moderator
I also find the last comment by Ray to be going on the confrontational route.
Calm it down or that posting and any others like it will be removed.
Do not ruin what has been a reasonable topic.
Calm it down or that posting and any others like it will be removed.
Do not ruin what has been a reasonable topic.
Gentlemen!
Take a chill pill please.
The debate we have been having here is open to all to discuss ways of trying to make our roads a safer place to be.
I can fully understand Mc Ghee's Question and comments.
Going back a few years I had an engineering business that specialised in brass parts. We were burgled twice in a fortnight and by a professional gang. They took out a wall brick by brick and took
Take a chill pill please.
The debate we have been having here is open to all to discuss ways of trying to make our roads a safer place to be.
I can fully understand Mc Ghee's Question and comments.
Going back a few years I had an engineering business that specialised in brass parts. We were burgled twice in a fortnight and by a professional gang. They took out a wall brick by brick and took
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