Poor old Sir Fred

[Thorpedo]

I'd like to post my condolences to Sir Fred following the ghastly attacks on his home where windows were broken.

Perhaps other forum members would join me in organising a whip round to help pay for re glazing.

After all Sir Fred has lost his job and has to survive on a modest pension at the age 50.

To those who committed the crime and sent Sir Fred and his mates a salutary message I have to say - you are very very naughty :-(

 

[Guest]

Regardless of our personal opinions it is not funny to have a mob basically attacking your home. He was not at home at the time as he is worried about the effect on his family. Again, regardless of opinion, we do not live in a society that should tolerate lawlessness.

G Brown has a lot to answer for as he has been very busy talking up the 'anger' against bankers in general, and Fred in particular. If someone gets hurt he will follow his usual cowardly way out by stating 'it wisnae me, it was the other laddie'. Instead, he should have been keeping the matter low key and sorting out a solution, but of course then his involvement and previous collusion would become more apparent.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

I am not in any way defending Sir Fred but what he has done and been awarded is totally above board whether one agrees with it or not. To have your home vandalised is not funny and should not be ridiculed. I hope the perpetrators are caught and heavily punished.

However I do think that Sir Fred should let his concence worry him and hand back a vast majority of his grossly over paid pension and agree to take a considerable cut in the annual payment to him. As stated by Scotch Lad the blame for all this lies fair and square with this inept Labour government we have and the the main one at fault in my opinion is Lord Meyers who undertook the study into the problems at RBS. What a ridiculous idea to have a retired banker investigate a banking problem.

 

[Thorpedo]

I agree in principal with the opinions of both Scotch and Colin above.

What I think this sort of action does highlight is that so far the Government, the Bank and Sir Fred himself have been totaly sterile in regards to putting this reward abuse right in some way.

It must indicate to all involved that they cannot and must not allow senior people to profit from their Gross errors, when the cost to millions of people in this country will be devastating.

If a few broken paynes of glass cause the Government and senior people to start looking over thier shoulders and realise that people out here in the real world do not accept this abuse and are prepared to take action then I'm afraid I am a reluctant supporter.

Lets hope Sir Fred, his overpaid mates and the Government take notice of this minor vandalism and be seen to put things right before a justifiably angry person does something more serious.

 

[bigbilly]

I notice, with interest, that he hangs on to his knighthood.

How did he get it in the first place ??

Bill

 

[Gumbo]

For services to banking, don't forget RBS shovelled shed loads of money into the Treasury in Tax, when it was making Millions in Profits.

Sir Fred earned a lot of his pension during this period as well.

Just got the Skipton Mutual Building Society invite to the AGM up for voting on

Mr Goodfellow retired as a director etc under his settlement agreement the society will pay a total of

 

[Gumbo]

mmmm

 

[Thorpedo]

I have no idea whether Skipton are successful or have made a **** up like RBS.

I'm not a communist either.

In my not very humble opinion this sort of pension defies belief.

RBS may have made profits in the past, but also in the past Sir Fred has been paid obscene amounts of money and bonuses.

I also note that when my company pension contributions have just been increased, the amount I will receive has been dropped, my company pensionable age has been raised to 65. Sir Fred is picking up his pension at the ripe old age of 50.

If I made a serious mistake which cost my company a relatively small amount of money I imagine I would be sacked and I suspect they would try to threaten my very modest pension.

When I hear of such social atrocities I sadly cannot condemn the people who broke Sir Fred's windows. Maybe this is the beginning of a wake up call on excess.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Hear on the news today that the French government are looking at ways of banning bank bonuses. This could backfire by grossly overpaying the staff or the top brass could move on to a country such as ours which gives out bonuses right left and centre to any Dick Tom or Harry - ie unless you are of working class material, if you are tough s**t you get sod all.

 

[glake]

Just out of interest, did the banks force any of us to borrow the money? or does a lot of the blame lie at the consumer who wanted everything right now!!!

they may have made it easy but the consumer borrowed it!

cheers,

gar

 

[Thorpedo]

I'm not sure what borrowed money you refer to Gareth, but one of the main causes of RBS problems (Sir Fred)was a buy out of a failing Scandinavian or Dutch bank.

If you refer to individuals borrowing shed loads of cash I agree with you. The number of times while out walking the dog in the area I live over the past few years, I've asked my wife who the hell can afford to buy the endless number of 500k+ houses being built. We concluded it was done on massive borrowing. But of course while still employed the buyers must be laughing at the moment with interest rates as they are. I'd be Sh..ting myself with worry.

But the banks are to blame for much of the bad debt as they were prepared to loan money to people who realistically had a high chance of defaulting especially in the USA. The banks after all are supposed to be expert in financial matters the individual relies on the experts for thier advice.

I was shocked only a few weeks ago in my bank when I simply paid in a cheque the clerk slid an unsolicited piece of paper accross the counter saying what I could borrow now if you like, it was 15k. Why? I didn't ask, I had plenty of cash in my account. Why not make the 15k available to a decent small business if they are that flush with cash.

 

[Steve L]

I am not going to defend "fred the shred" but I do have sympathy with his family as the are inocent by standers who just happen to be able to enjoy the proceeds of his greed.

It's so typical of all companies these days where the upper management seem to be able to name their terms and get it. But when it comes to the poor little minions on the coal face, we get told there isn't room in the kitty for a measley 5% for us!

Nope!! As per usual the "fat cat" at the top has eaten the lot!!

AS for a knighthood for services to *anking!! It's a pitty HRH's sword sword didn't slip in the dubbing ceremony, it would of saved RBS millions.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but it realy pigs me off to see alredy wealthy people litterally steal the crumbs of the plate of some poor sod who might need those crumbs of assistance to start his/her own small business.

I for noe suffered the loss of my business in the last recession because the bank jsut made life so hard justifying a measly

 

[ProfJohnL]

The problem has been caused by far more people than just Sir Fred, and it does rile me that he walks away with a massive pension. It has been said that his pensions was fixed as a clause of his contract, but if the business had failed he would have only received I think

 

[Guest]

Yes, the problem does indeed lie with more people than Sir Fred but he is a convenient scapegoat, and yes, he has not made his own life any easier by his recalcitrance. However, even if he returned his total pension pot, it would not make any difference to the current situation.

Whether anyone feels that RBS had actually failed as a Bank, is a matter of debate. If you look at their last Annual Report it shows that all divisions made an operating profit for 2008. The reason it recorded a loss was due to write downs on assets, of which 50% were attributable to ABN/AMRO. If those assets were to be wrtten up for instance, then the loss would diappear. So, it is down to putting a value on the pieces of paper, or IOU's that the Bank holds. The other issue is that the Government has insisted that Banks increase their capital ratios to avoid what they feel are risks. This means more money has to be put aside to get to these ratios, so yes, the taxpayer gave the Bank money but it has to be kept aside to meet the rules laid down by the Government.

It is also debateable if the banks are starving businesses of cash. Most Banks are lending at rates above, or close to what they did in 2007, but as all overseas banks and investment companies pulled out of the market there has been a shortfall of about 30% in available funds. So we have a smaller pot to go around. I do agree that it is not all 100% one way, and yes, the banks have been lethargic in certain areas. However, in the case of RBS the Government has put in their own appointed management team and so there should be no complaints that the Bank is not following Government wishes.

It is also wrong to state that Banks have been unaffected. I live in Edinburgh the home of both RBS and HBOS and can state that there has been a major impact on the market with a lot of staff layoffs, although these do not make the news headlines. RBS has also sold off a number of its overseas assets as well. Again, if the Bank staff are thrown out of work, then the economy up here suffers and the welfare bill rises.

The other thing that was noticeable was that tax revenues are significantly down, and this is attributable to the loss of earnings by bank staff. So, we win one side, and lose the other.

What the answer is, I do not know. I do agree that the actions taken to date such as the VAT cut have not worked, but the latest QE plan may just work as long as they can keep Brown from blowing money everywhere, or inflation will eat us all alive.

We shall see in the April Budget if they are prepared to tell us the truth. I am sceptical.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Scotch lad,

I agree with your first paragraph, but I think your second actually illustrates what part of the problem has been.

Basically all the banks have over estimated the value of their assets, They even bought dodgy assets and have continued to trade using these over estimations and so when the real values were revealed, their culpability in the crash was established. They were effectively bankrupt and could not service their own liabilities. I believe that is trading whilst insolvent which is a capital sin. That is why they had to go cap in hand to the Govt.

The directors are culpable- so what has happened at the banks? Where are the rolling heads? - yes we have the token chairman dismissed, but the responsibility for these decisions lies with the whole board and their advisers.

Yes there have been job losses at the banks, and my I have much sympathy for those affected, but the people who have lost their jobs are not decisions makers, they are still in their offices, giving pain to hundreds of business around the country and denying millions of people jobs.

The Govt. is no angel either, they have progressively reduced the regulation, and that has allowed some of the wilder actions of the banks.

I know the problems also extend to other parts of the world, but those few places where credit has not been extended remain in a far healthier position than the UK

I know it is far easier to criticise with the benefit of hind sight, but the reduction in VAT has had little effect, and the public are aware that it will go up again and possibly to a higher level than before.

I know this post is all rather negative, but like many others I have been seriously affected by redundancy.

 

[Guest]

I agree that I have also no sympathy for 'dodgy bankers'. However, I am very suspicious of the Government who are elected to protect us all, but apparently have done the exact opposite, and who themselves walk away with huge pensions.

What also worries me is that once things improve the so called 'toxic assets' may not be quite so toxic as first stated, and then the profits roar ahead, but for whom????

The other problem for the Banks is that savers are pulling money out as fast as the Government is putting it in, so the balance sheets do not change. Until interest rates get back to normal, this will not improve.

We, are by all expert information, a bust country and we cannot even follow the so called Plan for the Budget, as the cash just is not there anymore. If, as a result the Pound is devalued anymore then the outlook for all of us is very very grim indeed. If the Pound drops to 2 Pounds per Euro for example, just think what

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Scotch Lad

Last year Alex Salmond was boasting how great the Scottish Parliament was and in fact he sited RBS and HBOS being the backbone of the UK financial world. Thus if it wasn't for Scotland the City of London finances would be nothing.

Well he got that wrong. Look on the brightside however , unlike English plebs like me, Sir Fred will get his depression pills free of charge thanks to Mr Salmond.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Guest]

Big Eck is always known for making a good story out of very little. However, he is a politician and always has to make the best 'spin' with what he has, because as far as finance is concerned, he has no control. However, I seriously doubt even 'Big Eck' could have made such a mess of things as Westminster, and don't forget while you are reading your daily scandal sheet about Jackboot Jacqui and her porn movies, up here all MSP's expenses are published on the internet, with no bits blacked out. Yes, they all tried the scams for a while but were caught and the system changed overnight. If Holyrood can do it why is Wesminster so scared??

However, look on the bright side. If there was an independent Scotland, then we can re-nationalise the Banks and pay little compensation. That could be fun. I think the election in 13 months time will be very interesting, maybe even a sitting PM could lose his seat, certainly a Chancellor will.

 

[Dustydog]

Scotch Lad

You naughty boy.

The thought of Jacqui in her jackboots leaves me speechless. Her poor old man must be deprived!

As for a future election I honestly don't fancy any of them. A bit of a dilemma for me and loads of others I think.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Gumbo]

Eck has no credability whilst he draws two salaries, One for Westminister and one for Holyrood. The man is a disgrace to the Scottish people. He can't talk about anyone plundering the states coffers when he has his snout all the way in.

See Annabell keeps asking him about it at at question time!!!!

 

[ScouseIan]

Anyone would think Fred the Shred caused this whole credit crunch. At some point in the past he must have signed a contract where it laid down his terms and conditions. This must be a similar contract to many hundreds of top senior executives throughout the country (could it be over 1,000 ???) in many different companies.

Now how the success of these executives is measured is beyond me. Its probably to do with share prices, profits to earnings ratios and other stuff that if we knew enough about, we'd be earning top salaries as well. Now many banks throughout the world are having big problems and some big ones have indeed gone bust.

Did Sir Fred fail? Without him would the problem have been even worse? We just don't know. What makes some people equipped to comment on this I just don't know.

Its just a good old fashioned witch hunt. Literally, it seems for some people.

Ian

 

[Dustydog]

Ian

Where does the buck stop?

If you want the spoils of war you must be prepared to get hurt. Freddie clearly lead RBS down a flawed route, maybe out of greed or total naievity.

I have no sympathy for him whatsoever. The man's a coward and has done a runner to escape his accusers. There will be others I am sure but in Fred's case if he had donated say 75% of his pension to a "good cause charity" people may have viewed him with a little more compassion perhaps?

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[ScouseIan]

'spoils of war'...?????

'prepared to get hurt'...????

He was getting up each day and going to work, just like you and me.

I'm sure he was doing it to the best of his ability, according to his contract and how the board wanted him to run the company. I can only assume his bonus is based upon him doing what was asked of him.

I don't think you need to have any sympathy for him either. Why do you feel anything? What's he done to you?

This is all whipped up by the papers to sell their evil sheets.

How did he lead RBS down a flawed route? Was it him? on his own? Nothing to do with the global credit crunch? Started with bad loans in the states I think.

I say we should leave Freddie alone and concentrate on how financial institutions can overstretch themselves by so so much that they are practically insolvent. Thats a job for the government.

Ian

 

[Keith_374323831]

I am not in any way defending Sir Fred but what he has done and been awarded is totally above board whether one agrees with it or not. To have your home vandalised is not funny and should not be ridiculed. I hope the perpetrators are caught and heavily punished.

However I do think that Sir Fred should let his concence worry him and hand back a vast majority of his grossly over paid pension and agree to take a considerable cut in the annual payment to him. As stated by Scotch Lad the blame for all this lies fair and square with this inept Labour government we have and the the main one at fault in my opinion is Lord Meyers who undertook the study into the problems at RBS. What a ridiculous idea to have a retired banker investigate a banking problem.

What absolute cobblers and hogwash ! This man represents the worst of the GREEDY and non caring 'managerial' society. Evewn a fool could see that he was overpaid if he is offered anyhting over

 

[Dustydog]

Is he a relative of yours Ian?

I 'm out now but will digest your words as and when.

Cheers

Dustydog