Power in cold weather

[Dustydog]

I agree planning a journey is a factor. I fill up at Berwick on Tweed and can just get to Cirencester, Gloucestershire towing a heavy TA . Totally relaxed, no worries about fuel stations. BTW never ever refill at the exorbitant M way prices.
Frankly these discussions have been done to death so much I hope in 2023 we can move onto some more interesting topics. I for one am spending my money on far more interesting items with more enjoyment than any overpriced Range Anxiety EV can give me🤪. I exclude my own three small EVs which do the job locally very well👏👍

 

[Buckman]

I wonder if the other EV charging points were busy as well. But having lots of Teslas queuing makes for good press.

It seems that there were insufficient charging points at a number of service stations and all EVs were affected, not just Teslas.

 

[otherclive]

I agree planning a journey is a factor. I fill up at Berwick on Tweed and can just get to Cirencester, Gloucestershire towing a heavy TA . Totally relaxed, no worries about fuel stations. BTW never ever refill at the exorbitant M way prices.
Frankly these discussions have been done to death so much I hope in 2023 we can move onto some more interesting topics. I for one am spending my money on far more interesting items with more enjoyment than any overpriced Range Anxiety EV can give me🤪. I exclude my own three small EVs which do the job locally very well👏👍

I’d agree in some measure but the discussions wrt EV and ICE are very relevant to caravans and solo motoring. Perhaps those who post should consider the effect that supposedly humorous pictures or jibes may have on the reactions of other members.

 

[Dustydog]

I’d agree in some measure but the discussions wrt EV and ICE are very relevant to caravans and solo motoring. Perhaps those who post should consider the effect that supposedly humorous pictures or jibes may have on the reactions of other members.

Too much Woke and too much Diversity for me Clive. I always thought you were above that😉

 

[Tobes]

Too much Woke and too much Diversity for me Clive. I always thought you were above that😉

I don’t think it’s about “Woke” or “Diversity”. It’s about misinformation and falsehood.

 

[Dustydog]

I don’t think it’s about “Woke” or “Diversity”. It’s about misinformation and falsehood.

Thanks Tobes. I knew I was misinformed and false. 🙃🙃😵‍💫

 

[Parksy]

Too much Woke and too much Diversity for me Clive. I always thought you were above that😉

I don’t think it’s about “Woke” or “Diversity”. It’s about misinformation and falsehood.

From where I'm sitting it's about polarity of opinions which have
manifested as entrenched positions on this forum
Neither 'side' appears to be capable of understanding or accepting a different point of view to their own.
For everyone else this repetetive debate is boring.
If you want an ev, buy one.
If you dont, then don't buy one.
It's as simple as that.
The point scoring is tiresome, so unless you can come up with something interesting, don't bother with the same old arguments either pro or anti because I'll simply amalgamate the point scoring posts into one giant topic which the rest of us can ignore.

 

[Jcloughie]

Everybody has very different driving needs requirements. So for some a hybrid , others a small EV others a large, others a petrol and others a diesel.

So what is right for one is not suitable or right for another.

For myself. Last year, when I was towing, my V70 was great. But now, with very low milage, mostly short journey. Perhaps a small petrol or hybrid might be best. But it would not be as comfy, or handle my mobility scooter, or cruise motorways when required.

I think about changing every so often. But I can’t find a good reason to.

My brother gets a new, top of the range, Hyundia Santa Fe every two years. But he has a few bob!

Nevertheless, I feel certain that EV’s are the future, and I appreciate those that pioneer their usage. Perhaps one day.

John

 

[otherclive]

Everybody has very different driving needs requirements. So for some a hybrid , others a small EV others a large, others a petrol and others a diesel.

So what is right for one is not suitable or right for another.

For myself. Last year, when I was towing, my V70 was great. But now, with very low milage, mostly short journey. Perhaps a small petrol or hybrid might be best. But it would not be as comfy, or handle my mobility scooter, or cruise motorways when required.

I think about changing every so often. But I can’t find a good reason to.

My brother gets a new, top of the range, Hyundia Santa Fe every two years. But he has a few bob!

Nevertheless, I feel certain that EV’s are the future, and I appreciate those that pioneer their usage. Perhaps one day.

John

I thought that you were going for a Jaguar now that you are no longer towing?

 

[Buckman]

If you want an ev, buy one.
If you dont, then don't buy one.
It's as simple as that.

I am not sure about anyone else, but I have found the answers quite interesting and have learnt a lot from the discussion. A few misconceptions and myths have been cleared up.

We cannot afford a new or even second hand EV so would be looking at a hybrid as our preferred choice.

 

[Beachball]

I am not sure about anyone else, but I have found the answers quite interesting and have learnt a lot from the discussion. A few misconceptions and myths have been cleared up.

We cannot afford a new or even second hand EV so would be looking at a hybrid as our preferred choice.

So which hybrid will you be looking at ?

 

[Tobes]

Some are pro, some are anti. Some have direct experience, some don’t. When posts show up that are based on misinformation or falsehood, I will challenge them with hard data from my own experience. It’s not point scoring, it’s correcting the record to allow others to make an informed decision. @Dustydog - I it looked like I was attacking you, I apologise. I was (poorly) attempting to correct the misinformation in the meme that you posted. I botched that job as I stooped to the level of the original creator.
As @Parksy pointed out, being stuck in freezing temperatures when unprepared in _any_ car is no laughing matter. ICE cars are no different to EV in that respect. But with planing on both sides they are no worse in that situation either…

 

[ProfJohnL]

It is almost inevitable with a subject like this that entrenched views will arise, but the big issue is when as Tobes' commented is when someone posts a comment, intentionally or otherwise, which is factually incorrect and thus misleading and potentially damaging or demeaning.

Particularly in relation to the move away from ICE personal transport, there is a lot of inertia against the change from caravanner's, and at present with good reason because the presently available EV's and infra structure do not really cater tow-er's. That is a reasonable position to hold now, but as both the vehicles on offer evolve, and the recharging infrastructure improves, those particular negatives will deminish.

Because of government legislation we will ultimately lose ICE tow cars, but that process will take several decades for the change to be complete. However it might be accelerated if additional tax is added to ICE vehicles, and as cost of Dino juice increases disproportionately as the volume sold reduces, precipitating the closing of filling stations, and thus accessibility to liquid fuels.

If you try to judge what's going to happen in the field based purely on today's capabilities, it's bound to look grim. But the world of personal transport is developing at an alarming rate, and there are hundreds if not thousands of new technologies and strategies being looked at and developed which will make positive outcomes possible.

I do believe it will involve caravanning needing to evolve in some ways, less heavy and more aerodynamic caravans. Perhaps less touring and longer stays in one place. An increase in towing services to move your caravan for you. A change in the mind set of long distance towing to include recharging breaks.

 

[RogerL]

It is almost inevitable with a subject like this that entrenched views will arise, but the big issue is when as Tobes' commented is when someone posts a comment, intentionally or otherwise, which is factually incorrect and thus misleading and potentially damaging or demeaning.

Particularly in relation to the move away from ICE personal transport, there is a lot of inertia against the change from caravanner's, and at present with good reason because the presently available EV's and infra structure do not really cater tow-er's. That is a reasonable position to hold now, but as both the vehicles on offer evolve, and the recharging infrastructure improves, those particular negatives will deminish.

Because of government legislation we will ultimately lose ICE tow cars, but that process will take several decades for the change to be complete. However it might be accelerated if additional tax is added to ICE vehicles, and as cost of Dino juice increases disproportionately as the volume sold reduces, precipitating the closing of filling stations, and thus accessibility to liquid fuels.

If you try to judge what's going to happen in the field based purely on today's capabilities, it's bound to look grim. But the world of personal transport is developing at an alarming rate, and there are hundreds if not thousands of new technologies and strategies being looked at and developed which will make positive outcomes possible.

I do believe it will involve caravanning needing to evolve in some ways, less heavy and more aerodynamic caravans. Perhaps less touring and longer stays in one place. An increase in towing services to move your caravan for you. A change in the mind set of long distance towing to include recharging breaks.

There's a lot that could be done aerodynamically with caravans - back in the '60s the Coefficient of Drag (Cd) of typical cars was 0.45-0.50 even for cars like the E-type Jaguar - the '70s fuel crisis started to reduce the typical Cd to around 0.30 but they effectively plateau'd there - the introduction of EVs has given more impetus to Cd reduction and the best are now under 0.20.

Given that caravans are probably higher Cd than cars of the '60s there's huge scope to reduce their Cd, with a proportionate reduction in the consumption penalty when towing, ie increasing the towing range and lengthening the interval between recharging stops.

 

[Buckman]

There's a lot that could be done aerodynamically with caravans - back in the '60s the Coefficient of Drag (Cd) of typical cars was 0.45-0.50 even for cars like the E-type Jaguar - the '70s fuel crisis started to reduce the typical Cd to around 0.30 but they effectively plateau'd there - the introduction of EVs has given more impetus to Cd reduction and the best are now under 0.20.

Given that caravans are probably higher Cd than cars of the '60s there's huge scope to reduce their Cd, with a proportionate reduction in the consumption penalty when towing, ie increasing the towing range and lengthening the interval between recharging stops.

In cars you can sit down making it possible to make cars very aerodynamic. In caravans you need to stand and have room to walk around plus caravans are restricted to 7m body length which then makes it difficult to maximise space and also make the caravan aerodynamic at the same time. Not impossible, but difficult to juggle between the two.

 

[RogerL]

In cars you can sit down making it possible to make cars very aerodynamic. In caravans you need to stand and have room to walk around plus caravans are restricted to 7m body length which then makes it difficult to maximise space and also make the caravan aerodynamic at the same time. Not impossible, but difficult to juggle between the two.

Cd is a coefficient, not a measure of actual drag - caravans will always have a much bigger frontal area than cars but halving the Cd, like cars have done, would be very welcome.

 

[Tobes]

Cd is a coefficient, not a measure of actual drag - caravans will always have a much bigger frontal area than cars but halving the Cd, like cars have done, would be very welcome.

This!!! The underbelly of my EVs are completely flat and smooth. Quite different to the underbelly of previous ICE cars. Caravan’s are currently like ICE cars in that then surfaces are not event close to being streamlined. Adding a flush underbelly, roofline and windows could makes a significant difference.

 

[Jcloughie]

I thought that you were going for a Jaguar now that you are no longer towing?

I keep looking, then common sense and spouse pressure get to me. But I fancy an XF. Having said that, I haven't even sat in one. No hurry.

We have a Jag dealer about 15 miles away. When I think I will have a trip, I then think, ‘could I be bothered’. Poor attitude I know.


John

 

[Tobes]

I keep looking, then common sense and spouse pressure get to me. But I fancy an XF. Having said that, I haven't even sat in one. No hurry.

We have a Jag dealer about 15 miles away. When I think I will have a trip, I then think, ‘could I be bothered’. Poor attitude I know.


John

If you make it past the apathy get to the dealer, have a look and test drive an I-Pace while you are there.
I had the dubious honour of being one of the first non-press folk to drive the XF shooting break (estate) many years ago when it was first launched. It was a lovely car, but didn’t offer enough to tempt me away from a Volvo V70. The newer generations have improved them, but the I-Pace kind of epitomises what a touring format Jag strives to be. Power and silence in equal measure with a luxurious interior and plenty of space. Still not cheap though, with used examples starting around 33K on a 2019 plate.

 

[otherclive]

I keep looking, then common sense and spouse pressure get to me. But I fancy an XF. Having said that, I haven't even sat in one. No hurry.

We have a Jag dealer about 15 miles away. When I think I will have a trip, I then think, ‘could I be bothered’. Poor attitude I know.


John

My cousin has had his 2014 XF diesel from new and it’s still a lovely car. He thinks that he ought to change it for something newer from JLR but then again he can’t decide what he would have. His house has no off street parking which complicates it a bit. But 30k miles in eight years the Jaguar is hardly run in and he rarely uses it for short journeys and it’s taken in to the main dealer fir a six monthly check over and oil change. Ah to be a well off single man😃

 

[Jcloughie]

If you make it past the apathy get to the dealer, have a look and test drive an I-Pace while you are there.
I had the dubious honour of being one of the first non-press folk to drive the XF shooting break (estate) many years ago when it was first launched. It was a lovely car, but didn’t offer enough to tempt me away from a Volvo V70. The newer generations have improved them, but the I-Pace kind of epitomises what a touring format Jag strives to be. Power and silence in equal measure with a luxurious interior and plenty of space. Still not cheap though, with used examples starting around 33K on a 2019 plate.

Apathy fits the bill very well.

The higher roofline of the I-Pace makes more sense as well. I don't bend so well as I did.

John

 

[JTQ]

Whilst quoting Tesco's, "Every little helps", the aerodynamics of caravans given the average towing speeds, will never be a game changer.

On every little helps theme though, our current Hymer Nova featuring rounded side to ends & roof, as compared to its 2000 predecessor with hard corners, even though 200 kgs heavier does yield a just perceptibly better fuel consumption.

In the bigger picture of towed "caravans" of the future, on several counts including vehicle towing capabilities, I suspect will move towards what we would call a trailer tent. However, be definitely given a cooler name and styling, befitting a futuristic product to aspire to.

 

[RogerL]

I keep looking, then common sense and spouse pressure get to me. But I fancy an XF. Having said that, I haven't even sat in one. No hurry.

We have a Jag dealer about 15 miles away. When I think I will have a trip, I then think, ‘could I be bothered’. Poor attitude I know.


John

A neighbour bought an XF about the same time as I bought the Touareg - the interior is very nice but I was surprised how intrusive the sound from the diesel engine was - he had a few issues initially which seemed to take the dealer a long time to fix but he's been very pleased with it and still has it.