Power in cold weather

[Dustydog]

Good point as I forgot that Tesla cars need their dedicated charging point which is why there are long queues for Tesla cars

Already we have a discrepancy on EV charging?? If it is true then it’s a pretty stupid short sighted calculation from Tesla.
I’ve just read this :-
Technically you can connect your Tesla to a standard 110v plug receptacle with the free adapter that comes with the car. But you can only charge slowly–at about 3 miles of range per hour parked. It's about as practical as refilling a gas car's tank with an eye dropper.

 

[Parksy]

Switching the subject from Tesla charging briefly, I didn't know until recently that some employers use ev leasing schemes for their employees benefit.
My daughter in law is a nurse, working for our local NHS trust.
Her job as a nurse involves driving regularly between two NHS day surgery theater sites, and she's enrolled on a NHS scheme to lease an ev., with various discounts etc and with the fee deducted from her monthly salary.
The home charging point was installed at their family home just before Christmas, and she takes delivery of her brand new ev in February, an MG I think.
The scheme appears to be similar to the Motability scheme for disabled drivers and my d-i-l tells us that the lease, with an option to buy or to lease replacement ev after a set time scale, is affordable and convenient for her.
All costs such as servicing, tyres, insurance are met by the lease, so it seems a good way for some employees to get an ev.
My son's Volvo SC 40 will be used for longer journeys, holidays etc so my eldest son's family haven't entirely embraced the green agenda yet.

 

[RogerL]

Switching the subject from Tesla charging briefly, I didn't know until recently that some employers use ev leasing schemes for their employees benefit.
My daughter in law is a nurse, working for our local NHS trust.
Her job as a nurse involves driving regularly between two NHS day surgery theater sites, and she's enrolled on a NHS scheme to lease an ev., with various discounts etc and with the fee deducted from her monthly salary.
The home charging point was installed at their family home just before Christmas, and she takes delivery of her brand new ev in February, an MG I think.
The scheme appears to be similar to the Motability scheme for disabled drivers and my d-i-l tells us that the lease, with an option to buy or to lease replacement ev after a set time scale, is affordable and convenient for her.
All costs such as servicing, tyres, insurance are met by the lease, so it seems a good way for some employees to get an ev.
My son's Volvo SC 40 will be used for longer journeys, holidays etc so my eldest son's family haven't entirely embraced the green agenda yet.

I guess that employers' schemes will naturally focus on the practicality of doing the job with scant regard for longer leisure trips - this may lead to an increase in multi-car households where one IC car is retained for any journey which is "too difficult" for EVs.

 

[Parksy]

My son and daughter in law use their own cars anyway, with the daughter in law's runabout an old Toyota Yaris with a petrol engine which they call 'The Banger'.
She isn't a confident driver, she only passed her test a year ago and her trips are only local and mainly work related, so the ev will be eminently suitable for her.

 

[otherclive]

Switching the subject from Tesla charging briefly, I didn't know until recently that some employers use ev leasing schemes for their employees benefit.
My daughter in law is a nurse, working for our local NHS trust.
Her job as a nurse involves driving regularly between two NHS day surgery theater sites, and she's enrolled on a NHS scheme to lease an ev., with various discounts etc and with the fee deducted from her monthly salary.
The home charging point was installed at their family home just before Christmas, and she takes delivery of her brand new ev in February, an MG I think.
The scheme appears to be similar to the Motability scheme for disabled drivers and my d-i-l tells us that the lease, with an option to buy or to lease replacement ev after a set time scale, is affordable and convenient for her.
All costs such as servicing, tyres, insurance are met by the lease, so it seems a good way for some employees to get an ev.
My son's Volvo SC 40 will be used for longer journeys, holidays etc so my eldest son's family haven't entirely embraced the green agenda yet.

My daughter who graduates as a Mental Health Nurse in February 2023 has had a NHS arranged leased Toyota Corolla self charging hybrid now for a nearly a year. She only pays her own insurance everything else is found, with a small mileage rate too. . She had options for SC, PHEV and BEV but chose the SC as the monthly outgoings were less and she’s always strapped for cash. The minimum business mileage required from her Trust is 3500 miles. So it may be that when she is appointed into a full nursing post and her lease expires in Feb 2025 she may not qualify for a NHS lease car. What she did comment on is that with no change in her driving journeys and driving style the SC Toyota halved her fuel bill compared to a 2014 Ford Focus 1.6 auto.

 

[Tobes]

Switching the subject from Tesla charging briefly, I didn't know until recently that some employers use ev leasing schemes for their employees benefit.
My daughter in law is a nurse, working for our local NHS trust.
Her job as a nurse involves driving regularly between two NHS day surgery theater sites, and she's enrolled on a NHS scheme to lease an ev., with various discounts etc and with the fee deducted from her monthly salary.
The home charging point was installed at their family home just before Christmas, and she takes delivery of her brand new ev in February, an MG I think.
The scheme appears to be similar to the Motability scheme for disabled drivers and my d-i-l tells us that the lease, with an option to buy or to lease replacement ev after a set time scale, is affordable and convenient for her.
All costs such as servicing, tyres, insurance are met by the lease, so it seems a good way for some employees to get an ev.
My son's Volvo SC 40 will be used for longer journeys, holidays etc so my eldest son's family haven't entirely embraced the green agenda yet.

This model is known as salary sacrifice and has been around for a long time. You benefit because the payment made is effectively from
gross salary, so you save income tax and NI. For tax purposes the car is treated as a company car which is why EVs are so attractive as they have a relatively low tax burden compared to ICE cars.

 

[Tobes]

Couldn’t resist this😜😜

I fixed it for you 😁😁🤣🤣👍

 

[Tobes]

Already we have a discrepancy on EV charging?? If it is true then it’s a pretty stupid short sighted calculation from Tesla.
I’ve just read this :-
Technically you can connect your Tesla to a standard 110v plug receptacle with the free adapter that comes with the car. But you can only charge slowly–at about 3 miles of range per hour parked. It's about as practical as refilling a gas car's tank with an eye dropper.

Tesla do not need dedicated charging points. They use any charger in the UK and have their own network in addition.
you can connect any EV to any mains socket to trickle charge it. It’s a very useful way of recharging, all be it slower than on a dedicated charge point or charger.

 

[Parksy]

I fixed it for you 😁😁🤣🤣👍View attachment 4213

Childish tit for tat on a serious matter 🙄

We need to accept that becoming stranded in any vehicle, ev or i.c. e powered, can be very dangerous if not properly equipped for extreme weather conditions when they occur.
There are around 60 dead in the USA due to the extreme weather conditions, and some of the dead were stranded motorists.
Always carry warm clothing and at least a blanket in the boot of the car when bad weather strikes.
As an ex- long distance HGV driver back in the day, when we were likely to have more severe winters, I've been stuck out in the snow once or twice.
In my lorry I had everything that I needed including blankets, tinned food and a small stove, which was fortunate for the family that I sheltered for a night when blizzards struck Shap and we were all stuck in my cab for 2 days.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Good point as I forgot that Tesla cars need their dedicated charging point which is why there are long queues for Tesla cars

Not true.

Tesla's can recharge at any charge point, but some early customers of Tesla had free or cheap super charging for the life of the vehicle, but that option was only available at Tesla's own supercharging network.

 

[Tobes]

Childish tit for tat on a serious matter 🙄

We need to accept that becoming stranded in any vehicle, ev or i.c. e powered, can be very dangerous if not properly equipped for extreme weather conditions when they occur.
There are around 60 dead in the USA due to the extreme weather conditions, and some of the dead were stranded motorists.
Always carry warm clothing and at least a blanket in the boot of the car when bad weather strikes.
As an ex- long distance HGV driver back in the day, when we were likely to have more severe winters, I've been stuck out in the snow once or twice.
In my lorry I had everything that I needed including blankets, tinned food and a small stove, which was fortunate for the family that I sheltered for a night when blizzards struck Shap and we were all stuck in my cab for 2 days.

I agree, it’s no laughing matter to get caught up in, and the reality is that being stuck in any vehicle is a bad situation. The reality is that being stuck in any vehicle with low fuel will be problematic. Being stuck in an EV that has a reasonable charge level is no more concerning than that in an ICE with a reasonable charge level. Memes that suggest it’s more dangerous in an EV is factually incorrect, and impose a false sense of security in using a fossil fuel car without planning for contingency of being stranded.

 

[Buckman]

Not true.

Tesla's can recharge at any charge point, but some early customers of Tesla had free or cheap super charging for the life of the vehicle, but that option was only available at Tesla's own supercharging network.

As per post #108 by Tobes. Apparently it is a lot slowerif not using the dedicated point? The queue of Teslas waiting to charge was on Sky News last night and some had been waiting or over 2 hours.

 

[Buckman]

I agree, it’s no laughing matter to get caught up in, and the reality is that being stuck in any vehicle is a bad situation. The reality is that being stuck in any vehicle with low fuel will be problematic. Being stuck in an EV that has a reasonable charge level is no more concerning than that in an ICE with a reasonable charge level. Memes that suggest it’s more dangerous in an EV is factually incorrect, and impose a false sense of security in using a fossil fuel car without planning for contingency of being stranded.

However the main difference is that with many ICE vehicles is that if you plan ahead and fill up before your journey, you should be able to complete the journey and have plenty to spare.
With an EV even if you plan ahead and set off with a full charge you may have an issue if halfway through your journey you need to recharge and then you may be stuck in a queue.
Obviously even worse if you. get stuck by the side of the road whether and ICE or EV, however I think that you would be better off in the ICE vehicle. However we seldom encounter such issues with blocked roads due to snowfall in England so not really an issue here, but in the States it could be an issue.

 

[otherclive]

Noting the above posts I would seriously question why with a very good forecast for the Arctic Weather Bomb so many motorists still felt it necessary to go out in their cars. I’ve only been stopped once by snow at the same time as HM Queen Elizabeth had to stay overnight in a hotel near Chipping Sodbury. The A46 from the M4 into Bath was blocked and even the large motorway snow ploughs were having to be dug out by JCBs. We had all the neccessary kit in the car, despite the fact that heavy snow had not been forecast. Spent a nice few hours in a HWA gritting depot two minutes walk from the car.

 

[RogerL]

I agree, it’s no laughing matter to get caught up in, and the reality is that being stuck in any vehicle is a bad situation. The reality is that being stuck in any vehicle with low fuel will be problematic. Being stuck in an EV that has a reasonable charge level is no more concerning than that in an ICE with a reasonable charge level. Memes that suggest it’s more dangerous in an EV is factually incorrect, and impose a false sense of security in using a fossil fuel car without planning for contingency of being stranded.

The diesel cabin heater in my VW Touareg uses 0.5 litre/hour at full setting - with a half tank of diesel, 50 litres, it would run for 50 hours in an emergency as it shuts off automatically when the tank is down to 1/4 full - but then I could start the engine and get conventional heating until the tank ran out.

How long would an EV with 50% battery charge last in the same conditions?

 

[otherclive]

Like it or not electric cars are here to stay and owners will have to adjust their driving to suit their particular car. In some areas there will be constraints in other areas there will be distinct advantages. Overall the percentage of car drivers able to afford a Touareg or similar, with cabin heater must be very low indeed, and almost irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[RogerL]

Like it or not electric cars are here to stay and owners will have to adjust their driving to suit their particular car. In some areas there will be constraints in other areas there will be distinct advantages. Overall the percentage of car drivers able to afford a Touareg or similar, with cabin heater must be very low indeed, and almost irrelevant to the discussion.

The price of most EVs is very close to that of a Touareg - any IC car stuck in wintry conditions can run the engine to keep the occupants warm - even with small cars there's more energy in half a tank of petrol/diesel than a half charged EV car.

 

[otherclive]

The price of most EVs is very close to that of a Touareg - any IC car stuck in wintry conditions can run the engine to keep the occupants warm - even with small cars there's more energy in half a tank of petrol/diesel than a half charged EV car.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree as I don’t know where your pricing figures come from as a large number of the EVs I see aren’t Touareg priced cars.

 

[Raywood]

Like it or not electric cars are here to stay and owners will have to adjust their driving to suit their particular car. In some areas there will be constraints in other areas there will be distinct advantages. Overall the percentage of car drivers able to afford a Touareg or similar, with cabin heater must be very low indeed, and almost irrelevant to the discussion.

I agree but the speed of change in this area probably means hat by 2030 we should have far better battery life. It is a possible problem though at the moment and frankly hybrids are a far better bet at the moment. Reports of problems last week as the holiday travel began show that the infrastructure and reliability are simply not there and he totally stupid idea of having different plugs for different makes just compounds the problem. We need a common plug system just as we have with those for filling ICE vehicles.

 

[Tobes]

The diesel cabin heater in my VW Touareg uses 0.5 litre/hour at full setting - with a half tank of diesel, 50 litres, it would run for 50 hours in an emergency as it shuts off automatically when the tank is down to 1/4 full - but then I could start the engine and get conventional heating until the tank ran out.

How long would an EV with 50% battery charge last in the same conditions?

Once warm, mine uses between .5 and 1 kWh per hour. I have a 75kWh usable battery. So at 50% full it will run the heating comfortably for between 38 and 75 hours.

 

[Tobes]

The price of most EVs is very close to that of a Touareg - any IC car stuck in wintry conditions can run the engine to keep the occupants warm - even with small cars there's more energy in half a tank of petrol/diesel than a half charged EV car.

There is, but the usage of it in an ICE car is massively wasteful, where as it’s very efficiently used in an EV. You get more for less.

 

[Tobes]

I agree but the speed of change in this area probably means hat by 2030 we should have far better battery life. It is a possible problem though at the moment and frankly hybrids are a far better bet at the moment. Reports of problems last week as the holiday travel began show that the infrastructure and reliability are simply not there and he totally stupid idea of having different plugs for different makes just compounds the problem. We need a common plug system just as we have with those for filling ICE vehicles.

There are 2 types of plug for rapid charging CHAdeMO and CCS type 2. CHAdeMO in an old standard being phased out. Afaik the only new cars you can buy with it are the Lexus UH300 and Nissan Leaf. Even the new Nissan has CCS. So in practice, EVs have fewer standards than ICE. (Petrol, diesel, super petrol, super diesel, CNG, LPG, E5, E10). It’s never bothered anyone before, why would it now? You buy the car that has your preferred standard…

 

[Buckman]

There are 2 types of plug for rapid charging CHAdeMO and CCS type 2. CHAdeMO in an old standard being phased out. Afaik the only new cars you can buy with it are the Lexus UH300 and Nissan Leaf. Even the new Nissan has CCS. So in practice, EVs have fewer standards than ICE. (Petrol, diesel, super petrol, super diesel, CNG, LPG, E5, E10). It’s never bothered anyone before, why would it now? You buy the car that has your preferred standard…

Not arguing, but for interest, why were all those Tesla cars lined up to recharge as surely they could have recharged at other points if they are able to do so? As said some were in the queue for over 2 hours when asked by the presenter.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Each driver has the opportunity to plan their journey, and to include any need to consider being held up in adverse conditions. Under the same conditions no sane driver would start a 50 mile journey with only 30miles of fuel. if they were unsure about the availability of refueling before the fuel runs out. It question of understanding the vehicles characteristics - something that every driver should know and how suited it is to the intended journey.

To know why all those Tesla' were queuing, you would have to ask the drivers that decided to que. there is nothing stopping them from charging elsewhere so they were not forced que there.

 

[otherclive]

Each driver has the opportunity to plan their journey, and to include any need to consider being held up in adverse conditions. Under the same conditions no sane driver would start a 50 mile journey with only 30miles of fuel. if they were unsure about the availability of refueling before the fuel runs out. It question of understanding the vehicles characteristics - something that every driver should know and how suited it is to the intended journey.

To know why all those Tesla' were queuing, you would have to ask the drivers that decided to que. there is nothing stopping them from charging elsewhere so they were not forced que there.

I wonder if the other EV charging points were busy as well. But having lots of Teslas queuing makes for good press.