Powrtouch Evolution motor wire repair

[landycaravan]

Hi all,

I've had a problem with my Evolution twin motor system not firing up over winter. Have a feeling the battery has flattened and the drive to site wasn't long enough to get to 12.7v+ in the leisure battery.

However on initial fault finding ive found a small nick in the positive cable to one of the motors (where the installer had zip tied the excess cable length to the chassis he'd left some hanging down which looks to have caught on something). Im looking to splice the cables and install a cable connector, something like the Hylec connectors from Screwfix (look to be 32a rated on first one found), but i wasn't sure on the current the connector will need to handle...

Known info:

• 125 amp in line fuse to Powrtouch ECB
• 6mm squared cable from ECB to motors

These 6mm squared cables surely can't see 125amps, so wondering if something with a decent amp rating will suffice?

Only alternative option to repair is release all the excess of the cable and recrimp at Motor end to plug into motor...

Thoughts welcome!

Caravan is a Adria Avon 622DK in case makes any difference.

Andy

 

[woodsieboy]

My initial thought would be to wrap the nick in self amalgamating tape, would't start cutting and splicing, as i think the cables are left long enough that both sides are the same length, can't remember the exact reason. Other options , try another battery, and also depending on the age of the mover, check the brushes, mine wore down and once replaced all was good again

 

[JTQ]

I would just swag a 6mm square connector over the cable, only that if it is badly eroded.
The current it carries will be dictated by how hard turning that wheel becomes, what value that reaches is IMO rather academic here, if 6mm square had been fitted and has "worked" then IMO it is adequate even if at times somewhat overloaded by normal conventions.

As has been discussed in recent exchanges the soft start feature of these movers reduces the peak current involved, leading to these motor connecting wires being seemingly very light.

Edit: a motor mover will readily "find" a degraded battery, a battery unable to hold up the voltage under the quite high current draw. The movers also feature low voltage sensing and so with a degraded battery not holding up its voltage when working, the motor mover automatically cops out. Often some owners first insight into the poor sate of their caravan battery.

 

[Guzzilazz]

So, look at automotive cable supply specialist rather than Screwfix. Your in-line fuse is to cover current draw from both motors at the same time, I won't comment on surge voltage protection as I'm no expert, but I will say that electric motors tend to have a very high starting current from the rotor being stationary. As the motor rotates, a "back EMF" is generated (the magnet or coils are rotating in a magnetic field and therefore generating in the reverse direction) which reduces the overall current draw very quickly.

One of the other effects with 12V wiring is that with lower voltage (i.e. a twentieth of mains voltage) the current for the same power is (simplistically) 20 times that of mains wiring. The size of the cabling then has an effect , thinner cable has higher resistance, and depending on the length of cable run from the battery, the voltage can drop significantly at the device being powered. I had a diesel cooker on a boat that had a glow plug to start, and had a thin but long and tortuous cable route from the battery to the glow plug, and rarely got up to temp before the electronic protection kicked in and stopped it all.

Additionally, believing that your car will charge your leisure battery to any extent is naïve. Most modern cars only have a "smart" alternator to reduce load on the engine in order to improve fuel consumption. No alternator (even from an older car) will charge a battery above 80%. You need a smart charger, or solar to keep the leisure battery properly charged. An MPPT solar controller acts like a smart charger and WILL keep your battery properly charged.

There's more on battery tech associated with solar etc which I won't go into here as the reply is long enough already

 

[landycaravan]

Thanks for the replies so far all.

So think I leave cable as is, will grab a pic shortly to help.

Cover in appropriate tape or a square connector - any links youd recommend? I'm on anglesey so can access Bangor etc for parts.

As for the charge of the battery - im not certain but will it charge on EHU? I'm currently plugges in on campsite EHU.

Again I can fire a picture of the wiring under the bench where thr truma and ecb etc is.


I did also notice that there were no lights on the ecb lit, which makes me still think its the battery having none or nothing in the tank - its my error after not charging it over winter....lessons learnt!

 

[otherclive]

Your battery will charge on EHU but that can vary depending on the age of caravan and age and condition of the battery. More modern caravans have more flexible chargers. I used to charge my battery at home when the caravan was in store. You can get smart chargers from Aldi or Lidl, Halfords or on line. I use a CTEK, not the cheapest but has done the job for years. My son uses NOCO. A cheaper option is Ring.

 

[landycaravan]

Your battery will charge on EHU but that can vary depending on the age of caravan and age and condition of the battery. More modern caravans have more flexible chargers. I used to charge my battery at home when the caravan was in store. You can get smart chargers from Aldi or Lidl, Halfords or on line. I use a CTEK, not the cheapest but has done the job for years. My son uses NOCO. A cheaper option is Ring.

Its a 2022 Adria but as mentioned when the kids are up ill fire a pic of all the control and fuse box cubbins

 

[JTQ]

Sadly leaving LA batteries discharged is potentially destructive to them.
It is likely to recharge but only to a fraction of the energy holding it should. The voltage will look "good" but when asked to work it will drop very rapidly, hopefully it will recover but that will be by luck.

 

[otherclive]

A modern smart charger might help it recover, but no guarantees.

 

[landycaravan]

Photos of under bed control/fuse box.

Checked 125amp in line fuse and all ok, so im guessing it'll likely be the battery being flat why the Powrtouch ECB isn't showing life (unless its completely packed in).

Will grab photo of motor cable nick in second, although I wouldn't have thought that would stop the ECB having life? Unless its sensitive to continuity...

CTEK charger on the cards then, just hope it'll run thru the 3 pin inside the caravan on only 10amp EHU

 

[otherclive]

My CTEK is only 5 amp output as I bought it for maintenance charging of batteries as I don’t need one for charging a flat car battery. During Covid it was used occasionally to keep two car and one caravan battery “ topped” up, but otherwise used to maintain the caravan leisure battery.

 

[landycaravan]

My CTEK is only 5 amp output as I bought it for maintenance charging of batteries as I don’t need one for charging a flat car battery. During Covid it was used occasionally to keep two car and one caravan battery “ topped” up, but otherwise used to maintain the caravan leisure battery.

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/battery-maintenance/battery-chargers/noco-genius5-5-amp-battery-charger-230278.html

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/battery-maintenance/battery-chargers/ctek-mxs-5.0-t-uk-battery-charger-665079.html

Both look like good 5a options

 

[otherclive]

Too much choice. At one time CTEK was the only option which made life delightfully simple.

 

[landycaravan]

Thanks for the help, looks like the van has PS276-1-BCSM battery controller on board for the 12v and hopefully they wired it into the charger for the leisure battery....

But later I'll detach EHU and see if there is any life in the ECB and MMover

 

[IanB1485]

Point to note :- the cables too each motor are recommended to be all the same length so that when under load ( uphill) their resistance will be equal and therefore all the motors will deliver the same torque and the caravan will move in a straight line. the manufacturers also recommend to installers that the motor cables aren't shortened, which sometimes leads to lots of cables folded backwards and forwards and strapped to the underside of the caravan, or worse a rats nest underneath the seats!
If I found a 'nick' in the insulation but no damage to the conductors ( one or two won't impact that much as the remaining conductors are in intimate contact with the broken ones either side of the 1-2mm break) I would either use self adhesive heat shrink sleeve ( if I could get it over the end connectors/lugs) or self- amalgamating tape ( screwfix has it:- part code 2115V) which will seal the nick against water ingress. Re the 125A and 6mm cables . the cables are rated at 50A , but this is a continuous rating and is to do with voltage drop calculations and to some extent heat rise rather than absolute limits of the cable ie. before it melts its insulation or itself. The 125A fuse is there to protect the cable from the battery to the base modules from a 'dead' short' and this is just to prevent the risk of fire as that cable melts its insulation and the insulation catches fire.

​

 

[landycaravan]

Point to note :- the cables too each motor are recommended to be all the same length so that when under load ( uphill) their resistance will be equal and therefore all the motors will deliver the same torque and the caravan will move in a straight line. the manufacturers also recommend to installers that the motor cables aren't shortened, which sometimes leads to lots of cables folded backwards and forwards and strapped to the underside of the caravan, or worse a rats nest underneath the seats!
If I found a 'nick' in the insulation but no damage to the conductors ( one or two won't impact that much as the remaining conductors are in intimate contact with the broken ones either side of the 1-2mm break) I would either use self adhesive heat shrink sleeve ( if I could get it over the end connectors/lugs) or self- amalgamating tape ( screwfix has it:- part code 2115V) which will seal the nick against water ingress. Re the 125A and 6mm cables . the cables are rated at 50A , but this is a continuous rating and is to do with voltage drop calculations and to some extent heat rise rather than absolute limits of the cable ie. before it melts its insulation or itself. The 125A fuse is there to protect the cable from the battery to the base modules from a 'dead' short' and this is just to prevent the risk of fire as that cable melts its insulation and the insulation catches fire.

​

Great overview thanks @IanB1485

The tape solution sounds best but I will post a pic ASAP when the kids are out of my way of the "nick" .

Andy

PS - really hoping the battery has self charged thru the on board system on EHU and it'll have life later when I try it

 

[landycaravan]

Photos of rats nest and clearly where somehow these two loops have been dragged under and out of the cable tie possibly before I owned the van (owned less than a year)

Even though that cable is damaged i would imagine i should still get green light on the ecb box to show power is there?

 

[JTQ]

Looks in need of repairing "properly".
Swage one of these each end of the cable post cutting it, and bolt these together. Cover all this with self amalgamating tape.
Swage end
Tape
As examples from the earlier mentioned retailer, Screwfix

Edit, could be vermin damage, one or more squirrels have damaged our van over the years.

 

[Gafferbill]

Whoever installed the wiring for the mover chose what was easier and quicker for their benefit.
The wiring should be well up out of the way affixed to the flooring or inner chassis to protect from mechanical damage.

 

[IanB1485]

The PS276 is the battery charger/PSU for the caravan.It can supply between 15-20A to the battery when on EHU. It will also power the caravan systems without the battery(except the motor mover) .
Without the battery connected you should get 13.8V .

 

[landycaravan]

What do you mean by swage?

And will that repair properly support the current draw?

Looks in need of repairing "properly".
Swage one of these each end of the cable post cutting it, and bolt these together. Cover all this with self amalgamating tape.
Swage end
Tape
As examples from the earlier mentioned retailer, Screwfix

Edit, could be vermin damage, one or more squirrels have damaged our van over the years.

 

[JTQ]

What do you mean by swage?

And will that repair properly support the current draw?

By "swage" I mean what others also refer as "crimping", in essece crushing the tubular pipe end of the connector over the bare wires of the cable end. There has to be a you tube video of the process. just going out so can't spend time now looking.

Yes it will comfortably handle the current here, the technique is what is most likely already used to fit the existing cable ends.

 

[landycaravan]

By "swage" I mean what others also refer as "crimping", in essece crushing the tubular pipe end of the connector over the bare wires of the cable end. There has to be a you tube video of the process. just going out so can't spend time now looking.

Yes it will comfortably handle the current here, the technique is what is most likely already used to fit the existing cable ends.

Brilliant

Will some zinc m6 nut and bolt suit the clamping together of the two spades?

 

[JTQ]

Brilliant

Will some zinc m6 nut and bolt suit the clamping together of the two spades?

Better to pick a bolt size that the spade ends you get are bored for.
Material so continuity issues are not really relevant as the spades will abut each other and will be "tinned" for excellent continuity themselves.
Brass would be "best" but you will likely hunt a long while for these, I would by choice coupled with availability opt for stainless.
When all bolted up weather proofing with Vaseline [other brands petroleum jellies as good], then wrap with self amalgamating tape very well stretched to wake up its self amalgamating properties. then forget about it all and enjoy your caravanning.

 

[landycaravan]

Repair now done after enjoying the weather instead for last few days.



No life in battery, realised when checking fuse board the Van Batt+ 15amp fuse has tripped so maybe when tried to use it with that busted wire its tripped the fuse. Im assuming that's the fuse that would charge the batt whilst on EHU and towing....



New fuse tomorrow to see if it charges on ehu whilst here for a few more days and if not I'll Noco charge the battery before leaving for home...