You mentioned that the modification to the motorbike was purchased at a Moto GP and not legal in the UK. It probably wasn't legal on the Continent, either (not everything that's on sale is legal). But that's not the point. The insurers deemed, and quite rightly so, that the bike was not roadworthy in the modified condition. That they wouldn't pay up in the event of an accident is perfectly understandable. But whether tax has been paid or not has nothing to do with roadworthiness.
So it still comes down to the point, if the insurance company will confirm that the vehicle is covered while out of the country and untaxed, then there is nothing illegal with using the car there.
What you mention with Brits cashing in tax and then using the car abroad is actually done. I have seen UK cars without tax disks in Spain, although I don't know whether these cars may not have been insured there locally. Likewise, German residents who expect to be out of the country for long periods can officially exchange their normal number plates for export ones for which tax is only paid while they are still in Germany. They can then continue to use those vehicles on these export plates while abroad, although tax has expired in the meantime.
So it still comes down to the point, if the insurance company will confirm that the vehicle is covered while out of the country and untaxed, then there is nothing illegal with using the car there.
What you mention with Brits cashing in tax and then using the car abroad is actually done. I have seen UK cars without tax disks in Spain, although I don't know whether these cars may not have been insured there locally. Likewise, German residents who expect to be out of the country for long periods can officially exchange their normal number plates for export ones for which tax is only paid while they are still in Germany. They can then continue to use those vehicles on these export plates while abroad, although tax has expired in the meantime.
The performance can would not neccesarily have made the bike unroadworthy unless it broke another law (noise or type approval).
It would have invalidated the insurance because it would be seen as a performance modification and as such the insurance company should have been told.
In the same way as a chipped car could leave you without insurance but would still pass a MOT.
It would have invalidated the insurance because it would be seen as a performance modification and as such the insurance company should have been told.
In the same way as a chipped car could leave you without insurance but would still pass a MOT.
The exhaust was a street part not a race part and some time before type approval was dreampt up and from memory that the legality was re decibels as the limit was lower in the UK.
The bike was legal where it crashed, but as it was insured in the UK the Insurers ducked out of paying.
Being quite well travelled I know of vehicles out of their home country that may not be legal at home, but we are advising people here on a point that could cost a lot of money!
Again UK insurance relates to a GB car being used in the UK and normaly there is provison to include use abroad for so many days a year. If a car is being used in Spain or somewhere for any length of time it is likely that it has to have other than standard cover or cover from the host countries insurers.
I seem to believe that Brian (St A) mentioned a problem with a claim on his caravan. About 5 years ago travelling near Poitiers we were passed by a French car and caravan outfit entering the Services. A little later we rejoined the Autoroute into a traffic jam. The Car and caravan outfit had caused a multiple accident hitting numerous cars taking at least 4 and itself and caravan down a bank and rolling into a field.
So do we advise that if that was a UK car insured but with the tax out of date that the drivers insurers would be paying out?
I guess in court the words "Lutz and cris said" or "we thought it would be like X said on the forum and that our insurers would be like others" woold go down really well.
If you search around you will see numerous reports that a UK car without road tax is not considered roadworthy.
I think Evan advice is the best, if its a UK car keep it taxed!
The bike was legal where it crashed, but as it was insured in the UK the Insurers ducked out of paying.
Being quite well travelled I know of vehicles out of their home country that may not be legal at home, but we are advising people here on a point that could cost a lot of money!
Again UK insurance relates to a GB car being used in the UK and normaly there is provison to include use abroad for so many days a year. If a car is being used in Spain or somewhere for any length of time it is likely that it has to have other than standard cover or cover from the host countries insurers.
I seem to believe that Brian (St A) mentioned a problem with a claim on his caravan. About 5 years ago travelling near Poitiers we were passed by a French car and caravan outfit entering the Services. A little later we rejoined the Autoroute into a traffic jam. The Car and caravan outfit had caused a multiple accident hitting numerous cars taking at least 4 and itself and caravan down a bank and rolling into a field.
So do we advise that if that was a UK car insured but with the tax out of date that the drivers insurers would be paying out?
I guess in court the words "Lutz and cris said" or "we thought it would be like X said on the forum and that our insurers would be like others" woold go down really well.
If you search around you will see numerous reports that a UK car without road tax is not considered roadworthy.
I think Evan advice is the best, if its a UK car keep it taxed!
Of course, a "Lutz said" won't hold up in court but you are surmising that one may have problems with the insurance while abroad if the car is not taxed. What I have been saying all along was that one should ask the insurance company for clarification, preferably in writing, that the vehicle is still covered, but taxwise there is no problem.
Lutz.
I have just received the following.
Advice given to Retirees, UK Residents or Students working or studying is that a UK vehicle MUST be Taxed and insured whilst abroad to be legal.
and -
Official reply from DVLA on the matter:
"Any vehicle that is in use abroad should be properly registered and licensed
in the home country. If you are abroad on a temporary basis but still using
the vehicle then you should re-license the vehicle. You can make a postal
application directly to the UK so that a tax disc can be despatched abroad.
If however the vehicle is being kept off the road albeit abroad, then you
should declare SORN by notifying DVLA and giving the address as being
"temporarily abroad".
If the vehicle is taken out of the country for 12 months or more it should
be regarded as being permanently exported. An application should be made
for a Certificate of Export (V561). The appropriate sections of the V5
registration document should be completed and returned to DVLA. If a V5 is
not available an application for a Certificate of Permanent Export can be
made through DVLA Local Offices or the Export Section at DVLA."
I have just received the following.
Advice given to Retirees, UK Residents or Students working or studying is that a UK vehicle MUST be Taxed and insured whilst abroad to be legal.
and -
Official reply from DVLA on the matter:
"Any vehicle that is in use abroad should be properly registered and licensed
in the home country. If you are abroad on a temporary basis but still using
the vehicle then you should re-license the vehicle. You can make a postal
application directly to the UK so that a tax disc can be despatched abroad.
If however the vehicle is being kept off the road albeit abroad, then you
should declare SORN by notifying DVLA and giving the address as being
"temporarily abroad".
If the vehicle is taken out of the country for 12 months or more it should
be regarded as being permanently exported. An application should be made
for a Certificate of Export (V561). The appropriate sections of the V5
registration document should be completed and returned to DVLA. If a V5 is
not available an application for a Certificate of Permanent Export can be
made through DVLA Local Offices or the Export Section at DVLA."
I can't see how the DVLA can put out a statement like that. It seems to me that all they are trying to do is to prevent loss of income through tax avoidance. It it noteworthy that they say: "Any vehicle that is in use abroad should be properly registered and licensed in the home country" and do not use the word must.
Once one is out of the country one is effectively out of reach of the taxman back home. After all, that's why there are so many off-shore companies.
Once one is out of the country one is effectively out of reach of the taxman back home. After all, that's why there are so many off-shore companies.
ps: So long as one is abroad, one is subject to the laws of the host country not of the home country. After all, in France French speed limits apply equally to UK visitors and you pay French VAT rates on purchases, not UK ones. Only if the country one is visiting requires foreign vehicles to be taxed (which they don't because they have nothing to gain by doing so) would there be any mandatory requirement to have the car raxed.
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