Hi, I'm new to caravaning and with my van I recieved a starter pack which included a butane cylinder. I would like to change to propane or run both. Is it easy to run both and is it a DIY job i can do myself?
Regards
Mark
Regards
Mark
Propnae butane change over
- Thread starter mjcolli
- Start date
They use different regulators or connectors. What set up do you have, is it a new van with a bulkhead mounted regulator? If so you just need a different connector, your dealer should have them.
If older van with regulator for bottle then you need a new regulator.
Calor bottles can easily be swapped for different types/sizes if necessary.
If older van with regulator for bottle then you need a new regulator.
Calor bottles can easily be swapped for different types/sizes if necessary.
Just to add, you cannot use both at the same time, but changing from one to the other is simple and certainly a DIY job.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Jennifer is only partly right, yes in principal it is easy to change between propane and butane, but if teh change over requires any work on the fixed pipework in the caravan the it must be done by a competent person.
Just a word about change overs, if a valve is to be used then it must not allow both types of gas to be admitted to the system at the same time.(It must be break before make valving)
Just a word about change overs, if a valve is to be used then it must not allow both types of gas to be admitted to the system at the same time.(It must be break before make valving)
Thank you for the help. My van is an older type so i will have to change regulator and hose for different types of gas.
Regards
Mark
Regards
Mark
What is the reason you say the different gases must not be allowed to mix? Most small cannisters are a mixture of both gases in any case, in order to permit use in lower temperatures than just butane would permit.
Hi WC,
"What is the reason you say the different gases must not be allowed to mix? Most small cannisters are a mixture of both gases in any case, in order to permit use in lower temperatures than just butane would permit."
Mixing the gases isn't the issue - indeed "pure" Propane (refined by distillation) will contain a small (1%) amount of Butane, and vice versa.
The issue - and it's a safety issue - is the differing internal pressure of the two bottle types. At room temperature, a bottle of Butane has a natural internal pressure of around 3 bar, a bottle of Propane has n internal pressure of around 16 bar - roughly 5 times greater - just because Propane is more volatile.
The danger is one of components rated for use with Butane failing if used with Propane bottle pressures - hence the strong recommendation not to mix gases...
Robert
"What is the reason you say the different gases must not be allowed to mix? Most small cannisters are a mixture of both gases in any case, in order to permit use in lower temperatures than just butane would permit."
Mixing the gases isn't the issue - indeed "pure" Propane (refined by distillation) will contain a small (1%) amount of Butane, and vice versa.
The issue - and it's a safety issue - is the differing internal pressure of the two bottle types. At room temperature, a bottle of Butane has a natural internal pressure of around 3 bar, a bottle of Propane has n internal pressure of around 16 bar - roughly 5 times greater - just because Propane is more volatile.
The danger is one of components rated for use with Butane failing if used with Propane bottle pressures - hence the strong recommendation not to mix gases...
Robert
I still don't understand that reply, Robert. Unless you're thinking of a different system to what I have. Could you clarify?
"The danger is one of components rated for use with Butane failing if used with Propane bottle pressures"
What components? Since Propane is the higher pressure and used in a switchover, everything runs on Propane and it's rated higher pressure. Likewise, everything in my caravan runs on Butane and it's lower pressure too. In my case, both my Propane and Butane bottles have their own regulators at the bottles which then feed to the changeover. Any gas (Butane for example) remaining in the pipes when I should change over (to Propane for example) would them be "pushed" at the different pressure and slightly mixed. Never had a problem. Never been a problem.
"The danger is one of components rated for use with Butane failing if used with Propane bottle pressures"
What components? Since Propane is the higher pressure and used in a switchover, everything runs on Propane and it's rated higher pressure. Likewise, everything in my caravan runs on Butane and it's lower pressure too. In my case, both my Propane and Butane bottles have their own regulators at the bottles which then feed to the changeover. Any gas (Butane for example) remaining in the pipes when I should change over (to Propane for example) would them be "pushed" at the different pressure and slightly mixed. Never had a problem. Never been a problem.
Yes
You need to read the thread and the question from WC, but in summary there was a discussion about high pressure switch over systems and the possibility of using both Butane and Propane.
And then it's pretty clear that the high-pressure side of the gas system (before the regulator drops the pressure) has the slight chance of pressure mismatch. Now the Butane and Propane pigtails should be rated to the same pressure rating, but things like the Butane sealing washer and any pressure gauges could leak or be damaged...
Low pressure systems (regulator on top of a bottle) shouldn't have any real issues with switching.
Robert
You need to read the thread and the question from WC, but in summary there was a discussion about high pressure switch over systems and the possibility of using both Butane and Propane.
And then it's pretty clear that the high-pressure side of the gas system (before the regulator drops the pressure) has the slight chance of pressure mismatch. Now the Butane and Propane pigtails should be rated to the same pressure rating, but things like the Butane sealing washer and any pressure gauges could leak or be damaged...
Low pressure systems (regulator on top of a bottle) shouldn't have any real issues with switching.
Robert
I don't think Mark is asking about change-over valves or similar, only about changing to a different type of gas.
This would not require any interference with fixed pipework, so is straightforward to do.
I have a manual change over valve with Camping Gaz Butane on one side and sometimes Calor Propane on the other and this feeds the bulkhead regulator
From some of the statements above this sounds doubtful
Is there a potential problem ??
From some of the statements above this sounds doubtful
Is there a potential problem ??
Hi John,
If there is the possibility of a cross-feed - allowing you to connect the two tanks together, then yes. Otherwise no, and the risks should be small, but:
Even if the switching valve was designed to be mechanically incapable to cross-feed, then you still need to consider the effects of wear or manufacturing problems - then you could experience a pressure leak from one system into the other.
But from the sound of it, you don't have any gauges in the pigtails - so really the only item we need to consider are the two rubber pressure seals on the Butane supply - the one that links the pigtail to the Camping Gaz adaptor, and the seal between the Camping Gaz bottle and the adaptor. Simply make sure those seals are in good condition and replaced when necessary...
If you had a good quality system installed, with a switching valve that prevents cross-feed, and the system is checked and maintained - then any risks must be very small indeed
For risk comparison, the brass seal surface of the bull-nosed POL connector is very easy to scratch (say from a small piece of grit picked up in the locker) and then that scratch means a leak between the Propane bottle and the pigtail - Now I've seen that issue more than once at an EribaFest, where someone runs out of Propane over a summer weekend - and I'd rate the risks of a Propane leak around the brass POL connector to be much higher than a cross-feed problem...
And it's a good idea if the pigtails have non-return valves at the end you connect to the gas bottles...
Robert
If there is the possibility of a cross-feed - allowing you to connect the two tanks together, then yes. Otherwise no, and the risks should be small, but:
Even if the switching valve was designed to be mechanically incapable to cross-feed, then you still need to consider the effects of wear or manufacturing problems - then you could experience a pressure leak from one system into the other.
But from the sound of it, you don't have any gauges in the pigtails - so really the only item we need to consider are the two rubber pressure seals on the Butane supply - the one that links the pigtail to the Camping Gaz adaptor, and the seal between the Camping Gaz bottle and the adaptor. Simply make sure those seals are in good condition and replaced when necessary...
If you had a good quality system installed, with a switching valve that prevents cross-feed, and the system is checked and maintained - then any risks must be very small indeed
For risk comparison, the brass seal surface of the bull-nosed POL connector is very easy to scratch (say from a small piece of grit picked up in the locker) and then that scratch means a leak between the Propane bottle and the pigtail - Now I've seen that issue more than once at an EribaFest, where someone runs out of Propane over a summer weekend - and I'd rate the risks of a Propane leak around the brass POL connector to be much higher than a cross-feed problem...
And it's a good idea if the pigtails have non-return valves at the end you connect to the gas bottles...
Robert
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