Question about B+E Licience

[Gagakev]

Read this yesterday;
Depending on the weight of your car and caravan combination if the weight doesnt exceed 3500kgs you dont need to take the B+E licience. The cars unladen weight must be greater than the caravan's MTPLM.
if my tow vehicle is 1865kg and my van is 1700kgs that gives me 3565kg
The van has been up plated to 1700kg giving me a 225kg payload.
I would like to know if I kept the weight down in the van say to 1600kgs would my daughter be able to drive the combination legally. She would of course do a towing course.

 

[Sproket]

Kev
Have a look on here
http://m.direct.gov.uk/syndicationController?action=view&st=0&utn=f2bf8611c99044b3a512201208262235&param=DG_201202

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Kev

I'm sorry but the combination of car and caravan you have cannot be driven by a driver without the BE category, as it exceeds the 3500Kg limit of the licence. Shedding load has no affect on this calculation or entitlement to drive.

In fact the combination is worse than you imagine:-

The B category states that the combined MAM's must not exceed 3500Kg.

The MAM is the Maximum Authorised Mass which are the upper limits for car and trailer added together. It does not look at what the units actually weigh its the maximum they can legally weigh.

I assume the 1865Kg is the unladen weight of the car - not its MAM, which will typically be around 400 to 500Kg more. Your data plate will give you the actual figure. so I'm guessing the car will be about 2300Kg MAM

So the combined MAM's will in fact be 2300+1700 = 4000Kg - well over the 3500Kg limit and obviously well beyond a Cat B only driver.

 

[Tony_374371542]

My licence is due for renewal in February next year. I found the website suggested by sprocket very interesting regarding the licence requirements for new drivers which comes into force in January of next year. At the moment, I have the BE entitlement on my licence. When I renew my licence, will I be classed as a new driver or will my BE entitlement continue?
I have spoken to the DVLA about it and they said my BE would continue but didn't mention any new rules.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Tony,
It depends on the reason for changing your licence:- If its simple because its a photo card two part licence which expires after ten years, the all previous entitlements should be carried over, but if it licenec renewal at aged 70 the certain previous rights expire and you have to reapply for some See the Direcet Gove web site
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/NeedANewOrUpdatedLicence/index.htm
It is strongly recommeneded that you keep a photo copy of your expiring licence, so that if your new one dosen't have all your entitlments you have some evidence to contact DLVC with to get them reinstated.

 

[Lutz]

Basically, there is no cause for concern, because the the change to BE entitlement only restricts the maximum allowable weight of the trailer to 3500kg. I cannot imagine that anyone towing a caravan would be affected. Up to now there is no restriction. I imagine that this was an oversight in the formulation of the original law which would theoretically allow a car to tow heavy commercial vehicle trailer.

 

[Tony_374371542]

Thanks for the replies.
We are in the process of changing the caravan for a lighter one. The new MAM of the car and caravan would just be outside the 3500kg at 3506kg which would unfortunately take me just outside the B licence catagory.
It was the wording of the updated licence conditions that made me unsure.
This is my second time for renewal at 70 plus. The last time I did it, I took the medical to continue my entitlement to the 7500kg lorry and minibus (voluntary driving). This time I don't think I will renew the lorry and minibus and so according to the person I spoke to at the DVLA, my BE entitlement should continue when I do renew in February.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Lutz,

the formulation of the original law which would theoretically allow a car to tow heavy commercial vehicle trailer.

Perhaps this is what another forum member thinks he's working too

.

 

[Lutz]

Yes, strange isn't it, that currently, until the change comes into effect next year, there is absolutely no weight limit of trailer that one can tow on a B+E licence. On the other hand, the 100% weight ratio restriction that applies to the B licence will be lifted (the 3500kg gross train weight limit will remain, though).

 

[MrBell]

what we need is better guidance on the rules about B licenses, lots of the younger generation are falling into this confusion about weights. I speak to people about the weight limits and most dont know anything about the license rules. Most people think you can just tow what you like, which is true for certain people.
I have my re sit test for my B+E tomorrow and i have to admit its annoying i have to do this test (again).
I looked into what i needed to do and decided i need to do my test as my new car has taken me over the limit by 100kg.
Hopefully this time i will pass and then i wont need to worry about my license.

 

[ProfJohnL]

what we need is better guidance on the rules about B licenses,

Mr Bell,
First of all Best of luck with your BE test.

I have to agree the towing regulations are complex and on first glance confusing, especially as the licence categories look very similar and often its the date of your test that makes all the difference. However it is the drivers responsibility to check their own categories. The guidance is available at

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022547

And the matter has been discussed at some length on this and other forums, so its not hidden information.

As always ignorance of the law is not an excuse.