Re Road Tax

Apr 3, 2006
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So reading this it would appear that 90% of caravan owners tow with a 4X4, has we seem to be the latest target for this labour goverment, do any of you have any ideas on what to move too without being over the gross train weight, I have looked into vans but discover it very hard to find a camp site that is willing to allow you to enter with a van. At this moment I use my 4.3 Range Rover, and will carry on doing so but I am just looking because like every thing once they sink there teeth into taxing something, even the sky is no limit.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Most caravanners, especially those that use campsites with predominantly hardstandings where there's less risk of getting stuck, tow with a 4x4 by choice, not because they have to. Few would really be unable to get by without a 4x4. For most caravans, there's still a big enough choice of cars to be within any towload or gross train weight restrictions.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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It is a good point Lutz has made here, virtually all single axle vans produced currently are well within the capabilities of many current large estate cars or smaller SUV's like the Freelander or CRV. I have no issues with people running large 4x4's, but as someone who tows a large single axle with an estate car it does become annoying when people justify using a large 4x4 entirely on safety grounds implying that any other vehicle is not up to the job.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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With respect to the tax question, unfortunately the choice of cars is limited. This has nothing to do with the 4x4 debate. My brother's Ford Mundano 2ltr petrol is in the same tax band as my 4x4. Doesn't seem fair as his car is much lighter and although capable for its size, not in the same league for towing.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Mini Hatchback Hatchback 1.6 16v Cooper S 3dr

CO2 rating (g/km) 207

Honda CR-V 4X4 2.2 i-CTDi SE 5dr

CO2 rating (g/km) 177

NOW ALL YOU MINI DRIVERS AND SALOON DRIVERS THINK AGAIN!!!!!!
 
Jul 12, 2005
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if the government was really concerned about CO2 then motorbikes and mopeds would be in the zero band.

All they are interested in is the money, they know the british public like bigger cars and know they can use the 'political correctness' stick to stop people moaning.

Oh, and Klarky, its a nissan! come on! get serious!
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Klarky, its hardly a fair comparison with a diesel Terrano and a petrol Freelander everyones aware that diesel engines produce considerably less CO2 than petrol. The TD4 Freelander produces 205g of CO2.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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hardly fair,when someone slates 4x4 drivers for running gas guzzling cars

quote - virtually all single axle vans produced currently are well within the capabilities of many current large estate cars or smaller SUV's like the 'Freelander '

i'm sorry but its all about emmissions here,thats the bug bare,4x4's blasting crap fron the exhaust,looks like the freelander sport blasts more crap to me
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Klarky, you really need to get a perspective of what is being said in this thread. The original comment implied that the only options that we had to tow our vans were large 4x4's or vans, which is simply not true. At no point did I criticise anyone for using a 4x4 which is what you seem to have interpreted. I have nothing against 4x4s and infact have used these vehicles in the past and will no doubt use one again in the future.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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sorry for the rant

as i have said,its all down to emmissions. a nissan terrano 3.0 throws less crap out than a freelander sport,it tows better and in my mind has a better caravan to car weight ratio than it, as well as lots of saloon cars,therefore i personally think it must be safer.

as far as plenty of cars to tow with in the 'large estate cars or smaller SUV's 'catagory,maybe.but a majority of them will be towed well above the 85% guideline almost 100% with some.as is said,caravans are now predominately heavier than ever,again down to choice.if you want to tow a heavy van and be within the safe guidline(85%)for towing then im afraid theres not much else other than larger vehicles to tow with.
 
Nov 1, 2005
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Howard, have you considered van derived people carriers like the Transit Tourneo & Vito Executive? I've never known of sites taking exception to these.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Some people may disagree and I can respect that but I do challenge the theory that outfits at 85% are inherently safer than an outfit at 90 or 95%. In reality loading of the van and driving technique have much more of an influence on the stability of the outfit than a five or even ten percent difference in weight ratio. With this in mind I think that many people upgrade to a larger vehicle in the misconception that it will make there outfit safer when in practice this is not the case.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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As I've said before in another post, the way caravans are getting heavier all the time one will slowly but surely have to get accustomed to the fact that the 85% ratio will eventually have to be overboard. Otherwise, for a good many people who choose not go 4x4, there will be nothing left to tow them with. Fortunately, the techies are working on it.
 
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I agree that there are some 'heavies' out there in the way of vans, but i also note that a number of manufacturers have designed lighter ranges to their models. If a van can be kept to below 1500 kg gross weight then there are a good few normal cars that can fit the bill, and if the weight can be kept around 1300/1400 then many more are applicable.

I note from many of the comments on this forum that people have bought '4x4's to tow their particular van. An awful lot of 4x4's have kerb weights within the same band as many larger cars and estate cars so I assume the ones being referred to are the large 4x4's, namely Shoguns/Range Rovers/Discovery's and the like. The 85% towing capacity of an X Trail for instance is similar to a Volvo V70 or even a Vauxhall Vectra estate. A Subaru Forester 4x4 has a kerb weight just on 1400 kg so is lighter than my own saloon car. In additon a V70/X Type Jaguar can be obtained with AWD, does this mean it is a 4x4?

The Budget has deliniated vehicles in terms of pollution and i note that my large Volvo saloon has also been hit with a hike due to it being just above one of the thresholds. It is ironic that Volvo were the first to introduce catalytic converters to stop the emission of nitrous oxides but allowed carbon dioxides. Now these in turn are the 'nastys', so what was 'clean' a few years ago is now no longer the case.

I suspect people buy the vehicles they actually want, and then use any excuse they like to justify it. Why not just say, 'I want that particular one' and leave it at that. If it costs more then I am prepared to pay it.
 
Feb 15, 2006
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The price of tax and most of what brown said in the budget is b******s we are alittle tiny drop in the ocean when yon look at the usa, australia, china, and another country who i cant remember will not sign to the kyoteo agreement (which was agreed to save the ozone) they all drive round in there enourmous 5 litre cars kicking out more CO2 than anywhere else in the world.

WE must go green brown says WHAT differance do we make when these countries wont do it to.

Oh yes the differance is we pay for them with the price of our fuel to theres the price of our car tax.

I was in florida last year and put in 38 gallons in a 4x4 and ai cost a little over 20 quid it worked out at 29p a litre there is also the differance
 
Apr 3, 2006
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Most caravanners, especially those that use campsites with predominantly hardstandings where there's less risk of getting stuck, tow with a 4x4 by choice, not because they have to. Few would really be unable to get by without a 4x4. For most caravans, there's still a big enough choice of cars to be within any towload or gross train weight restrictions.
This tax comes from two jag Brown,the other claim is emissons, now all morden cars produce the same emisson by the time it reaches the tail pipe, it does not matter if it is a 4x4 or a vauxhall corsa.
 
Aug 28, 2005
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the goverment nor the general public are not interested in the ozone layer ,the ice caps have been melting for over ten thousand years ,the whole of this country was covered in ice the English channel was dry the med was dry ,the river Thames was tributary of the Rhine ,when the ice started melting ,the English channel began to fill as sea levels rose ,there wasnt any cars then ,before that the celtic people walked over here from mainland europe ,all this goverment is interested in is fleecing the working public ,and me i like to take most of my garbage home to recycle ,how many people do you see on an average recycling there rubbish
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Joby in my opinion you are spot on with your comments. The eco friendly people are just out to stir hatred against society. If they were so concerned why did they object to a Severn Barrage and insisted on a new Severn crossing - because of a tidal wave twice a year - what a load of c**p. Which is more important a tidal wave or the polluting output from a coal fired and neuclear power station which, had the barrage been constructed, would be surplus and therefore closed.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Just had a reply from John Mann MP, with regards to my concerns over the road fund Licence. He's going to further the message on to the minister concerned. Another long wait then.......
 

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