Renault Scenic and Bailey Ranger

[Margaret_374330123]

We've just bought a Bailey Ranger 500/5 and had hoped to tow it with a 1.5 dci Renault Scenic which we have been told on many occasions would be suitable.

When we went to discuss the arrangements for picking up the caravan we were told that the car is no good for towing the Bailey.

Can anyone help us with whether or not this is true and if so can someone recommend a not too expensive tow car suitable for this caravan.

Many thanks

 

[cokey1970]

Hi Margaret,

According to What Towcar.com and assuming your Scenic has the 105bhp engine, your outfit would be a 91% match which is okay.

Martin.

 

[Damian]

Renault cars have a history of having low towing tolerances.

The only thing you can do is get the relevant information from either your handbook, or dealer for the car, and the weights for the van and see if the two are compatible.

The whattowcar figures are based on European weights, unfortunately the British spec cars are different!!

I have read of other Scenic owners who have had clutch failure from towing,and Renault will not cover this eventuality on warranty, be warned.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Margret

The Bailey web site list the current 550/5 with an MPTLM of 1271Kg, and my sources suggests that all models of the 1.5dci scenic are rated to tow up to 1300Kg, so technically there is a match. However, the margin is only 29Kg, which can easily be swallowed up by manufacturing tolerances of the caravan, moisture content in the wooden structure or last minute nick-nacks.

However the actual ratio depends on kerb weight of the car that is determined by the year, engine and model of scenic. Again my sources suggest that the worst-case scenario would be 95% and improving to 87% for the 2004 Grande Scenic 1.5Dci

Damian has also pointed out an important consideration to do with Gross Train Weight. Renault have been quite meagere with this figure for some models, and it means you cannot fully load both the car and trailer to their maximums as the would exceed the GTW. I have no information for the GTW of the Scenic - speak to your Renault Dealer or check your owners handbook or data plate.

It is a sensible suggestion to keep the ratio as low as possible, and the CC give 85% as a guideline especially for novice towers. Legally provide you passed your test before Jan 1997 you can tow up to maximum permitted by the cars manufactures, otherwise you are restricted to a maximum of 100% or the manufactures limit if it is lower than 100%

Do not rely on data supplied through this forum as being accurate, it is usually gathered from multiple sources that from time to time have been shown to include some inaccuracies. Always check your data from the manufacture or authorised dealer, and the Department of transports sites.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi margaret

my only advice would be to try it and see, while not wanting to disagree with what has been said so far I was told that my combination would not work either.(better car to tow with a citroen c3 or focus)WRONG??

I tow a bailey ranger 380/2 with a 1.9 dti megane.

yes the engine is bigger but but has actually less power than the 1.5dci (20bhp less)and the van is a bit heavier (200kg more)according to the mptlm however this is the max permissible weight if you keep the exess weight out of the van you should be able to get the gross van weight down to about 1100kg that would be more suitable for the cars power output.

if in doubt load it up (car and van)and take it to a public weigh bridge and have it weighed check the certified weight against the max gross train weight in the owners book if the total weight(according to the weighbridge) is less than in the book it is legal to tow it .

armed with this information hang it on and have a go.

mine works out @ 96% and still tows beautifully hills no problem fully loaded I have no problems towing, plenty of power and no stability problems, even in high winds.and it returns nearly 40mpg towing. it has taken us all over scotland and wales and gone up every hill thrown at it and I can make corwall in 6 hrs (with stops ) from west yorkshire.

all in all I think its a good outfit? yours in theory should be also and with the extra bit of car weight and higher roof line could be better than mine have a go and let us know how you get on.

b.t.w. saw a new espace towing a 625 in york yesterday and thats still got the 1.9dci engine in it.

hope this helps

colin

 

[Del_374232870]

Much has been mentioned about hp, however I would be more concerened with the torque of the car , as for towing torque is more important than hp.

 

[Bryn1]

The usefulness of the torque figure is that for a diesel engine it's usually quoted at roughly the engine revs you are likely to be cruising at - around 2000 rpm, and so is a useful indicator of power at normal speeds. Whereas the power is quoted at an unrealisticly high rpm.

Most petrol engines do not provide such a handy measure of power at say 60 mph in top gear, as their quoted torque is at higher revs.

Bryn

 

[Margaret_374330123]

Thanks very much for your replies. I think we will try it and see - a visit to the local weighbridge is next.

 

[Howard_374311998]

Thanks very much for your replies. I think we will try it and see - a visit to the local weighbridge is next.

hi, i would like to know how you got on, i have a 1.9 scenic and intend to tow an Abbey Oxford - similar weight.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

hiya, how did you get on with the scenic?.

jo-anne

 

[Lutz]

The trouble with all Renualts is that their maximum permissible gross train weight is less than the sum of the car's max. GVW and the max. weight of the caravan.

You don't say what model year your Bailey is so I can only estimate that its max. weight is about 1280kg. My data tells me that the maximum gross train weight of the 1.5dCi Scenic is 2950kg. This would leave 1670kg for the Scenic itself, which only leaves you with a relatively small margin over the kerbweight. It is well below the maximum GVW of the car. In other words, you would not be able to put much inside the car if the caravan is fully laden. Conversely, if the car is fully laden, you may not put anything inside the caravan.

This makes the combination rather marginal.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

my thoughts on margarets combo are marginal on the side of unsuitable, just maybe it could work providing the weight was kept down. however lutz is correct about the total weight issue.

something I looked into very closely before I bought the megane

renaults calculate their weights with driver only, so the weight of any passengers has to come off the cars GVW.

my outfit while it is fair to say others said was maginal turned out to be spot on a megane 1.9dti and bailey ranger 380/2

the car tows the van well and the engine has enough power to pull the unit anywhere in any conditions.

however the vans mtplm is only 1051kg and is never fully loaded the 1.9dti engine is the 105bhp version. and the van is a 94% match which I find acceptable.

so a heavier van by 130kg and the reduced engine capacity of the 1.5dci + the scenic is 140kg heavier than the megane. total 270kg of extra weight that has to deducted of the max driver only towing weight of 1300kg.

like I said very marginal it would be interesting though to see how margaret gets on with it.

colin

 

[AndyR]

I agree with Colin on this. I have the 1.9dci Scenic with a gross train weight of 3050Kg (kerbweight 1530Kg). We decided to go for the Ranger 470/4 in preference to the slightly heavier 510/4 or 500/5 to keep the weight down.

It's a 76% match and is very stable. When the time comes to change the van (when the children are too tall for the smallish bunks!), we'll be buying another towcar!

 

[Lutz]

Even with a 76% match it will not be possible to load the Scenic fully to its GVW. A 76% match would leave you with 357kg of permissible payload based on the figures you give. On the other hand, if you are driving solo, i.e. not towing, you would be able to put over 100kg more into the car before reaching its GVW.

 

[HazelPaul]

We have a Grand Scenic 1.9dci and are considering vans of 1300 and under but do want a six birth fixed bunk one. Now perhaps we should consider using our other car a Skoda Octavia 1.9d and sell the scenic?

 

[Margaret_374330123]

Hi Everyone

We did some more checking and detective work and spoke to Renault themselves who confirmed that the match wasn't suitable so after only having the scenic for five months we changed to a 56 reg 2.0 litre diesel Kia Sportage, and whilst it's great for towing I don't personally like it. We only look at it as a means to an end.

We are fans of the Scenic and the OH has already been looking at the Koleos, but it's dream land at the moment unless we win the lottery soon!!!

Margaret

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi margaret

nice to see you got the matter resolved thank you for letting us know

colin

 

[Zafiral]

We had a 1.9 DCi scenic before our currnet car and was horrified that it would only tow 950kg when loaded (1300kg driver only). As our caravan (Ranger 470/4) weighs 979kg empty, the Scenic had to go sharpish and we have replaced it with a brilliant Civic 2.2 CTDi. This can tow 1500kg when loaded (not that I will), and it tows like a dream.

 

[AndyR]

It's too late for you now, but we spoke to Renault who admitted that the manual is actually incorrect and told us to ignore the "driver only" 1300Kg limit and work purely on the gross train weight figure of 3050Kg. We calculated that we would be comfortably within the limits to tow a Ranger 470/4 (but as Lutz says earlier, it isn't possible to load the car to its gross vehicle weight).

Having said that, if I'd have known I'd be buying a caravan, I'd never have bought the Grand Scenic in the first place!

 

[Zafiral]

It's too late for you now, but we spoke to Renault who admitted that the manual is actually incorrect and told us to ignore the "driver only" 1300Kg limit and work purely on the gross train weight figure of 3050Kg. We calculated that we would be comfortably within the limits to tow a Ranger 470/4 (but as Lutz says earlier, it isn't possible to load the car to its gross vehicle weight).

Having said that, if I'd have known I'd be buying a caravan, I'd never have bought the Grand Scenic in the first place!

I know about the gross train weight, but I felt by the time I had the awning in the car, a mover (and the corresponding bigger battery) on the caravan and three bikes on the roof of the car, I felt I was pushing the 3050 gross train. Even tough there is only three of us, we don't travel light!!

We have upgraded the cavavan to max weight upgrade (MTPLM 1250) and tow with a Honda Civic 2.2 (1500 tow weight on top of a full car).