Renault Scenic towball too low - help!

[AndyR]

Hi, I have a problem that my Renault dealer fit towbar is too low. It measures 375mm to the centre of the ball with the car unladen. Most people's seem to be around 420-450mm.

The problem I will get is jockey wheel fouling on ferries, speed bumps etc, by the look if things.

I am getting conflicting reports from my Renault dealer, towbar fitters etc, and wondered whether anyone else had a new shape Scenic (mine is actually a Grand Scenic) with towbar fitted?

If so, I'd be very grateful if you could let me know your towball height, and what type of ball/bar you have - a photo would be really hepful too.

Thanks very much, Andy.

 

[rob_jax]

Hi Andy,

To be in compliance with Directive EC94/20, the height of the tow-bar from the centre of the ball to the ground shall be between 350mm and 420mm, when the vehicle is fully laden.

In order to attain this height, the unladen ball height will be higher than the fully laden height and will vary depending on vehicle type / suspension / etc.

If you have a "Sports" version of the car - with lowered suspension - then this will further reduce the unladen height - and in some cases, a tow-bar cannot be fitted to such "Sports" cars (because the correct tow-ball arm hasn't been made).

Robert

 

[Lutz]

Just to add to Robert's reply, assuming the suspension hasn't settled excessively, which is unlikely considering the age of the car, a low towball would suggest that the wrong towbar was fitted. With some "no-name" brands of towbar, I wouldn't put it past the manufacturer to have let a design fault slip in (even intentionally, to avoid the additional cost of having to make a second set of tools for two basically similar but slightly different models).

 

[STEVE_5041381]

Hi I have a towbar fitted to my wifes new Scenic (not grande) it is Witter and detachable but looks the correct height to me

(havent used it yet) though.

 

[AndyR]

Thanks for replies so far. It seems that the Witter towballs are at a height of 435mm with car unladen (compared to the Renault towball at 375mm!). I spoke to a very helpful person at Witter's HQ who gave me all the info.

It seems then, that Renault appear to fit a very low towball for some reason.

The thing is that the European Directive states that the ball must be between 350 and 420mm with the car laden. I put 3 people in the car and easily got it below 330mm, so I will knocking on the door of the Renault dealer's to ask why they've fitted something which is not only "not fit for purpose" but also does not comply with the regulations.

Steve - any chance I could trouble you to email me a photo (or post here - not sure whether you can post photos??) as this would be really helpful to get me sorted out and convinced that I won't be wasting money on replacing the towbar. andy.roche at virgin.net.

Many thanks, Andy.

 

[Lutz]

You say "Renault appear to fit a very low towball" but Renault do not factory fit towbars, at least not for the UK market. Towbars don't even show up in their price list. Cars delivered with towbar will therefore have been dealer installed and as Renault, like every other car manufacturer, do not make towbars themselves, there is ample room for human error.

 

[busman1]

does fully laden just the car fully laden or fully laden with the caravan attatched

will

 

[Lutz]

Fully laden means fully laden to the manufacturer's maximum permissible GVW. There is no difference whether the caravan is attached or not, i.e. it doesn't make any difference whether the last 75kg of the total payload is in the boot of the car (solo) or noseweight from the caravan (hitched)

 

[Steve L]

First of all Andrew, I'd have a discussion with your dealer regarding the fitting of the tow bar and point out that the Witter variant is substancially higher than the one fitted to your car.

It would be good to turn up with a van on the back to visually emphasise the point.

One option is to look for a design of tow ball coupling that gives a better height from the bolt hole centers to the top of the ball.

As you are probably aware it is illegal to fit any type of raising plate to gain height, but lowering plates can be used to reduce height, which clearly is not what you need in this case.

I had a Renault 25 which suffered the same problem, which I over come by fitting rubber doughnut spring assistors and using a 3500Kg capacity seperate cast drop pin and ball coupling normally found on highway maintainence vehicles. Quite ugly but effective though.

Can't think why I always had plenty of room left behind me in the supermarket car parks!!

 

[Lutz]

There have been a number of replies in this forum at various times that raising plates are illegal. However, no-one has ever said which law makes them illegal and, besides, it seems totally illogical to me. If the towbar was designed and type approved for use with drop plates then I can see no reason why, in principle, raising plates cannot be used too, so long as the manufacturer has OK'd them.

Usually, though, only towbars on 4x4's have provisions for drop plates. Because of their off-road capability and the potential need to tow farm trailers with higher drawbars, they are exempt from the EU directive governing standard towball heights. It therefore makes sense to be able to use drop plates on these vehicles. That is why their towbar designs often reflect the need to lower the towball accordingly to get it to the height necessary to tow a caravan. There should never be a need to raise the towball though.

But, in the case of non-4x4's, the towbar manufacturer will be fully aware of the required towball height and consequently, if it was designed properly, there will be no need to change it. Therefore, the manufacturer will have not made any provisions for intermediate plates and will not have had such an arrangement type approved. Because these plates change the geometry of the towbar by moving the towball rearward by the thickness of the plate and changing its height, they will affect type approved condition and render the arrangement illegal without having it re-homologated to reflect the range of adjustment.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

It always been taboo to use a drop plate to raise.

But if the towbar is designed so that all the bracketry is above the ball fixing then the effect of the leverage is going to be different to a towbar that is designed so that it comes below the bumper and then rises up to the ball fixing.

Common sense would allow for considering whether to use a rising plate in the first example but the regs don't have common sense !!!

Witter among others say drop plate length 0 (zero) so they don't approve them for dropping in their type approval either.

 

[Lutz]

The vertical forces acting on the towbar are unaffected whether a drop plate, raising plate or no plate at all is used. The horizontal bending forces acting on the towbar would only be higher, i.e. unfavourable, if the attachment points of the towbar to the car chassis are below the level of the towball. Only then would there be cause for concern regarding the use of raising plates. In the case of 4x4's, it is highly unlikely that the chassis mounting points are below the towball unless a raising plate of significant dimensions is used. For lower slung chassis, the situation can be rather different, hence the taboo of using raising plates on normal cars.

 

[AndyR]

I thought you might be interested in the outcome of all this...

I now have a Witter towbar with Al-ko ball fitted. It's 470mm height with the car unladen, so is perfect.

The Renault dealer even paid for it to be changed! Just shows, it pays to do your research and know your stuff.

Thanks for your help, everyone. Andy.