Retiring abroad

Nov 2, 2005
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It seems there's a few peeps who will be moving when they retire.

We have thought about this, but I think It's a bit to scary for me.

I get home sick for my family in 1 week.

What, Where, When and how will you all do this?

Pro's and Con's thoughts you have?
 
Jun 29, 2004
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Like the idea of retiring in mainland Europe for a month at a time then I can keep comming back to see what a pigs ear tony and chums are making, which in turn causes me to book again. Living semi perminantly I have done when I did a proper job and you just need to come back, even if it's just to glote.

ttfn

Norfolk Mike
 
Jul 12, 2005
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Ours will probably be the US or Australia. we have ties in both so its down to costs etc when we retire.

We do not intend on taking anything from the house with us, its going to be a complete sell up, move and resettle

Steve
 
Dec 16, 2003
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Southern France. Warm and nice climate most of the time. We love the look and life style. Have friends there and in Monaco and not to far away in Italy.

Another + is we would avoid seeing to much about our crackpot government and I do not read or speak enough French to get into their Politics :)

Our plan is for a few acres of land, house pool, spa, tennis court and six to ten exclusive fully serviced individual Caravan Pitches for a more exclusive relaxing all year round caravanning site.

My wife would not like the heat of Oz and I detest most things American, France is near and we will move for the climate and property value for money factor. Friends in the south of France and near Bordeaux and not far from CALAIS all find that overall their money goes further. Those that have sold homes here have also been able to buy out right and still put over the total French purchase price into investment or other rental properties.

I have a network of friends family and business contacts who talk face to face with me and others over the internet.

I talk to my cousin in Adelaide and her son showed me the improvements to his car on Monday. So living in France should not be a problem, if you are worried about seing family just get MSN or similar sorted with mic and web cam and the family the same :)
 
Mar 14, 2005
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My advice would be to do it in stages. having spoken to someone who has done it the best thing is to use you caravan to check out the area you fancy.

Retire, spend the winter there in the 'van and select your new home at liesure.

I have retired clients in France and Spain and none regret the move. I asked if the French resent us Brits coming and buying up property and whilst it seems to be a bit of a problem in Northern France in some areas, the further South you go the more welcoming. In fact one comment was "we like the Brits - you are far better than the Parisiens".

If you are not "silly", learn the launguage and take part in the local activities you are readily accepted it would seem.

OK so when do we go?
 
Dec 16, 2003
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You has said before Clive! Our friends reflect what you say and we know of others who have done the Spanish moves with great success.

We've seen enough of France to know where we will consider, finding the house and land in the right setting could take a while, my French is good enough to get by and as a kid I was fairly fluent and my wife speaks good French and we get on well withnthe French.I don't intend to retire for a lot of years.
 
G

Guest

Like the idea very much but it is very easy to get carried away, especially if you have had an excellent holiday in a destination. I have been guilty of that one myself.

Be sure to check that the country you are planning to go to, will actually take you. Europe is no problem but Oz has many restrictions, unless your only children are residents. The Retirement Visas that they used ot offer were only valid for 4 years with no guarantee of renewal, and you need about 1 million Aussie Dollars in assets to get one. We had ideas about Oz as my wife's total family are out there, but as we have children here that was not acceptable, even tho' we could support ourselves.

Also when do you go? Do you go when you are young and let the kids grow up in a new country, or do you wait until retirement and then go? The former is obviously the better choice, but as this topic is about retiring, then I assume we are discussing the latter. Don't forget your requirements as a retiree will be significantly different from a young 'un, medical facilities become important so buying that lovely villa miles out in the country may not be such a smart idea when you are 65. Also what do you do when one partner dies? Yes, the survivor can always move home again, but this can be difficult. There are alomst as many retirees returning to the UK as are leaving, usually because they didn't think things through far enough.

I agree the cheap flights are tempting, but they are not guaranteed. Ryanair will pull the plug on a destination as quick as look, if profits fall.

So, I am all for the idea but a really good game plan, and a really positive commitment is required. Complaining about our weather and taxes are not usually enough.

I would like to see more comments on this one.
 
Dec 16, 2003
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Clive may answer this, but is there not something going on where UK pension will just stay fixed if you are in certain countries.

If you live abroad and are not using NHS etc I couldn't see how that idea was fair!

But then again what is fair !

On the radio yesterday they said that South End was the best place to retire in Britain. Taking factors like, waiting lists, council tax etc and weather and being fairly flat for your aeging bodies it's number 1.

Now I'm sorry to any one who loves South End but having been there a few time in recent months, I think I would curl up and die in a few weeks if I had to spend my last days there :)
 
G

Guest

Indeed so, the main 'problems' are Australia, Canada and new Zealand, probably the most popular destinations.The matter has been through the Courts several times but the Government won't budge. You may feel that it is not a major issue but do consider, there may be still be one or two stalwarts in Oz still receiving their Pension in Pounds, shillings and pence, and at 1970's values. If there are 2 of you that adds up to a lot of lost money over 20 years.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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There is a problem with the OAP not increasing in the countries mentioned above. There is a reason (unlikely to be a valid or morally correct one, but a "reason" just the same) but I cannot remember what it is. But remember it only applies to your OAP - not any other pension income you receive.

Scotch Lad is right - it has been challenged but thrown out.

Anywhere in the EU is ok.

We are off to Oz next year for a family wedding. I quite fancy the nomadic life in a motorhome for 6 mths of the year in Oz and NZ when I retire. If we find somewhere we like we could rent for the six months.

The advantage of this is that no long term permission is required and your pension is paid into a UK bank as per normal and simply accessed in Oz, Canada, SA wherever .

The other six months I would like to spend in my home in the fabulous Pecos de Europa in Northern Spain where when we looked we worked out that the Spanish Council tax was a fair bit cheaper than that which we paid.

But then we were told that the sum was for the whole year! We had assumed it was per month.

A nice villa at half the cost of an equivalent house in the UK, and Rioja Crianza available at low cost! If I want to go back to the UK then cheap flights are available or the Ferries from Santander or Bilbao. Personally I much prefer the excellent Brittany Ferries where the food is superb, you can see a film and enjoy a good meal.

Taking a car makes your wallet wince but those that do it find that having a small car both ends works well.

The good thing about the UK, despite my moans!, is that because we live on a crowded island - property prices tend to rise because the land available is finite.

This gives us an advantage come retirement if we are happy to move elsewhere in the world.
 
G

Guest

Clive makes some very valid points. A lot of us, me included, like to think that by 'downsizing' abroad we can get a nice house and put a good lump sum in the bank for life's little luxuries, and why not? However, if you do this will the 'door' to UK property be closed if you ever decide to return? You may in all honesty state that you never plan to return,and will make it work come what may. Do remember that French, for instance, house prices do not rise anything like they do here. That is why you are buying in the first place. Also property in France can take anything up to 2 years to sell, not much good if you are in a rush. But of course you are not in a rush to sell. This is your new life until.......You are retired and in your 60's, 70's, one of you may need hospital or longer treatment. On a Sunday all the French have their families and friends visitng, what about you? Your family is hard at work back in the UK and will only get out to see you as and when they can, and quite rightly so. Of course, it is not all downside, but do take that into account before doing something you may regret. Far better to have lo...ng holidays in the sun and come home, than sell up and pay 10% of the total cost, in fees and moving costs before you even start. The ideal way is for kids to emigrate, and the parents to follow. If not that then, be careful. Sunshine can get very boring after a few years. Have a look at the expat 'conclaves' for want of a better word, in Spain,. Elderly expats clinging together because they cannot mix with the Spanish, or don't wish to. What a horrible thought.

I have lived overseas in more countries than I can mention, some excellent, some the pits. I was lucky and usually had a Company financing me, and knew it was only a 2 year assignment, for good or bad. What I would suggest to any would be 'emigre' is to rent a housein the chosen area for at least 1 year before making any move. You will see both the good and bad of the area and soon get to know what you may have missed in your original inspections. Yes, it costs, but it is cheaper than losing your life savings. Unless you wish to be a subject for certain TV programmes where everyone back home shouts 'What an idiot'.

Has anyone personal experience of actually doing this? If so, your opinions would be gratefully rceived.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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One plan would be to use some of the capital released from your house sale to keep a small home going in the UK. The rental income from this would either be additional income. Useful if your spouse has little of no pension income and so his/her income tax allowances are available.

If you do not have sufficient capital there are Buy to Let Mortgages available that can be used to top up. Usually the rental income would clear the payments but be aware that a) Interest Rates can move against you and b) a prolonged period with no tenant can prove problematic.

For those who do not want to commit 100% why not just downsize within the UK and upgrade your caravan then use this to travel to Spain/Portugal/wherever for that wonderful 5 month break in the sun.

Best of both worlds I would have thought.

But for those of us seriously contemplating retirement in sunnier climes, - whilst the thought of becoming elderly and infirm in a foreign country is not attractive - to be honest - becoming elderly and infirm in the UK hardly seems better at all!

Having seen how Hospitals and Nursing Homes treat the elderly in the UK - (I am still angry at seeing that old lady begging for a bed pan in the Royal Sussex County Hospital and as for that so called "carers" that were hitting the old lady and caught on camera, I would cheerfully take a swing at them!) I am not sure that I would be that better off remaining asset rich (house) and cash poor in the UK for all of my retirement as opposed to having a far better lifestyle and home elsewhere - preferably where it is sunny.
 
G

Guest

Clive,

Your idea is good, assuming you have a house of sufficient value to be able to buy a smaller house (that ain't a rabbit hutch) and still have enough left over. To do that I suspect you need a house value of 300k and over, which rules me out I am afraid.

I also agree with your comments regarding the services here, i do know the treatment in many European countries is superior to here and it makes it all the more tempting. We are currently following your other plan and spending June through to September in the van in the south of France. Will no doubt look again wistfully at rose covered sunny houses but the last thing I can afford to do is, jump from a rotten frying pan into an even larger fire. The other thing is our family is here, and grandson. They cannot move abroad due to work, so we would have to do the travelling, and although we dont see them every week, we would miss them. Flying back to the UK every month would get tiresome eventually, plus Ryanair go to Stanstead, and we live in Edinburgh so another flight on top. So there are many pro's and cons to consider. Mind you as I usually end up screaming at the latest daft thing the Government comes up with I may just go and do the 'jump' one of these days. Equity Release may provide an answer if they can come up with something that is not totally outrageous.

I occasionally read the 'French' magazines but the families they show always seem to have been 'executives' living in London and have fortunes to spend. They never seem to mention normal people. Ah well, keep dreaming and will enjoy the summer.
 
Jan 19, 2008
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I'd love to up sticks and live out my time in the sun but I just can't tear myself away from my family. The area I would choose is like cris, the south of France, the Beziers or Narbonne area. Definitely not Marseille, you might as well live in Algeria. The Bretons hate Brits because they are buying up property there and forcing prices up out of the reach of the locals, just like in certain holiday areas in this country.I can but dream but as they say, the grass always seems greener on the other side, and that is a very true saying. The relentless heat of Australia would make it a no no for me.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hi Scotch Lad

You mention Equity Release - whilst these modern schemes are better than the old Allied Crowbar annuity based plans - I am still highly suspicious of them.

To advertise on the telly should tell us two things:-

a) If they are spending money on advertising then it means that IFA's are not recommending them. (The proof of this is that when Standard Life Bank introduced the first "Australian style" mortgage with the offset facility and daily interest so that over payments IMMEDIATLY reduced the capital owed, the plan was so good that from nowhere Standard Life Bank took a 20% market share in the new mortgage market in the first year! - a truly amazing feet with no telly advertising at all. Standard Life has NO HIGH STREET OUTLETS - it relies on IFA recommendation.

b) If you buy direct from them, the rules now state that you have to satisfy YOURSELF that the plan is suitable for you. These firms even have their own "tame" legal firm to oversee the transaction. So my advice is take Independent Financial Advice and Independent Legal Advice before proceeding.

These schemes in my view should be used only when absolutely necessary. To release capital/income for Long Term Care is the classic reason.

But to advertise them as "simple" and suitable for paying for a conservatory or a holiday is totally wrong in my view. An IFA has to explore ALL the other options BEFORE recommending such a scheme - and quite rightly so - you are taking advice from them after all.

But if you go direct to the lender via a TV advert - no such analysis is required and it is very much Caveat Emptor.

My basic advice is - don't!
 
G

Guest

Clive,

Your comments regarding Equity release are extremely pertinent, however, I suspect we are all looking for that distant scheme whereby we can achieve our dreams and ambitions, without bankrupting ourselves totally. I only mentioned Equity Release as a 'sideswipe' at what is currently the pitifull options available to us retirees without really ever wishing to encompass it. I agree that borrowing 20k on the house and ending up with a 100k debt after 10-15 years is not the smartest thing to do....unless you are about to drop dead and wish to make whoopee before you go. A year or so of wine, women and song before you depart sounds fun, except the wine probably will finish you off early, you cannot cope with the women and the song.........well, too much of Tom Jones could make anyone wish it was all over.

However, the thought of getting up in the morning to another beautiful sunny day, enjoying a leisurely cafe au lait and a croissant whilst reading Le Monde does have its afficiados. Pulling out the electric fry pan in the late afternoon for an al fresco meal with fresh seafood, washed down with a white Bordeaux can make anyone do the craziest of things.

I suspect I really need to find a distant great aunt who owned lots of land, and I am her sole surviving heir, to have any chance of achieving these dreams. Unfortunately, I don't have any great aunts left, and those I had didn't own any land.

But...the car is outside, the van has now got its cushions back in place, the weekend is coming and the first trip of the season beckons and then, it is off to France for the summer so we shall see what we can do with our meagre resources. All I can say to those thinking of retiring..don't leave it too late. Go sooner and sod the costs, you enjoy more if you have the health to do it. Live here and holiday there, or vice versa, it don't matter. What does matter is enjoying it before it is too late.
 

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