Robberies on French - Reply to All.

Jo_374369218 · Aug 9, 2008

Thank you for all your kind comment's.

I shared this with you as a gesture of kindness and in the hope it would stop the same thing from happening to someone else. We will learn by our mistakes and we had hoped that by posting our experience on here it would help someone else.

One thing is for sure I did not expect to be judged or doubted in anyway. Please don't think we have not beaten ourselves up about why we didn;t hear anything or why we left our valubles on display because so far we have spent 8 sleepless nights doing exactly this.

We have also wound the legs up on the caravan and the jockey wheel as quietly as possible while someone is laid on the bed to see just how quietly it can be done and to prove to ourselves that we are not going mad - all I would say is try it on your own caravan and you will then see just how quiet it can be done and until you have done it don't say know one could break into your van without you knowing because we said the same. We took every precaution we could and it still happened.

The items stolen were within reach from the door and consisted of my husband's short's which contained his wallet and car keys and his wallet contained his 2 credit cards, switch card and 150.00 euro's for the toll's (not a huge amount but the only cash we had). A rucksack containing my Son's girlfriend's overnight clothes and a travel wallet which contained our passports, driving licenses etc (we got these back though when my husband gave chase) - these items were only on show as we literally came in the caravan with our valuables from the car put them down and crashed out for the night in the early hours.

As for them stealing an English car,the Gendarmerie could not agree more - they said they would usually steal a small french car, ours was a huge silver Land Rover. Just goes to show things don't always happen as you expect, we were advised the people responsible were most likely to be a Romanian or Morrocan gang who are expert's at what they do.We also questioned why if they know this happens is it not policed better 365 days a year, we were told it was purely down to manpower and that they were not allowed as we are in England to use cctv due to human rights laws in France so basically since border control was taken away it is harder to police French crime.

We were also told by many french people that very recently there has been a lot of publicity on the French news regarding these crimes in the north and south of France - so for the person who lives in France who doesn't know anything about it, I can only suggest you get a tv......Oh and read the article in this month's Caravan club magazine - you may all believe that if you still doubt me.

I have to say that I am very flattered that certain people thought I had actually spent the day at work for 9 hours and then home to register on this website to make up this whole thing for no reason at all, I can't actually imagine anyone doing that at all - or maybe that's just the class of company I keep.

I hope my further explanation of things in a little more detail has changed the mind set of all you doubting Thomas's - If I haven't then tough as I won't ever be posting anything else on here again, it's perhaps the most unfriendly website/forum I have ever been on - I would like to say that despite your small mindedness I do genuinly hope you never suffer the same as we have and still are.

Thank's to those of you who actually uderstood why I posted this item and appreciated the only reason why I did it - for you.

Jo

Gafferbill · Aug 9, 2008

Hi Jo

Your whole account of what happened to you is totally believable to me and I hope you can soon put the experience behind you.

These types often target service areas.

From what you say, I think they were after your Land Rover for whatever reason.

They knew enough to know they needed the keys to start it otherwise they would not have risked disturbing you.

There has been accounts in the past of gas being used to subdue the occupants of a target vehicle. This has happened to HGV drivers asleep in their cabs on service areas. They have then been overpowered and their truck stolen.

catherine_5040027 · Aug 9, 2008

Hi Jo,

We have only stayed on an aire once, and I got no sleep through worrying about safety and haven't bothered since. I like many other s though believed we would wake up if the caravan was disturbed..until one morning on holiday my hubby said to me' there was a beautiful sunrise this morning so I went out and took some pictures, He'd got out of bed, took the camera from the cupboard, went out of the caravan came back in to the caravan. None of us heard anything.Thats when I realised you can never be sure you will

hear anything!

Sorry about the other attitudes but even if you manage to stop it happening to one person then you have done a good thing.

Also much as I love France, and I really do,there are those that seem to give you the impression ' Crime what crime theres no crime in France'!

Catherine

DavidKlyne · Aug 9, 2008

Jo

I am sorry if you feel that this forum has treated you uncharitably. Obviously no one wants to go through what you have described and I suppose there can't be too many warnings. Perhaps what you don't know, and it is something that can colours poster's judgement a little, is that every year we get posts from new people to the forum with a similar subject content. I suppose people find it strange that that people who don't normally belong to a forum join to post such a message. I post this message as a point of explanation and I have seen the same thing, over the years, happen elsewhere. I hope you get everything sorted out and that it does not colour you enjoyment of caravanning too much and of forums also which can be a useful source of information.

David

Mac2 · Aug 9, 2008

Hi Jo,

I've been following this thread since you posted it. I think some of the comments made by other members are pretty poor and not in the spirit of a friendly caravan forum.

Can I say this in your defence. My brother-in-law is a French motorcycle cop patrolling the Auto-routes near Marseille. For a number of years now he has been warning us against thefts such as you describe, along with regular car jacking at service stations. These crimes are mainly carried out by gangs of Eastern Europeans and North Africans.

A small padlock fitted to corner steadies will not stop an experienced thief. They can remove a wheelclamp in approx 15 seconds with a piece of rope !!

I hope you are not put off caravaning by some of the answers you received by a few individuals. I think everybody needs to be more security minded these days and your post serves as a good reminder.

DJM · Aug 9, 2008

Hi Jo,

As I said in my original reply to you - I expected this type of response from some members of this forum when you originally posted about your unfortunate experience.

I used to contribute regularly a few years ago,(under a different name), but now only post occasionally because of some of the members views. A lot of previous members have also left and joined "friendlier forums" for similar reasons.

Please don't let some of these replies upset you, and more importantly, do not let it stop you enjoying our wonderful hobby of caravanning, (particularly overseas).

You have learnt your lesson the hard way and now you know what to do about it so you don't have to face the same dilemma in the future.

Always use a camp site, as other members have said, there are plenty of them and many are in close proximity to the main autoroutes and many of them offer first class facilities and help you unwind and relax after a long days driving and are far better than stopping at the side of the autoroute.

I hope everything gets sorted out for you both and you continue to enjoy continental touring.

ValA. · Aug 9, 2008

Some years ago there was a report in the press that our neighbours had been gassed and robbed of all their jewellery, phones, passports, cards, keys, cash, etc., whilst 'overnighting' on a Aire near Biarritz, and had to use someone else's mobile to ring and cancel cards, contact insurers etc. We spoke to them on their mobile on their return, and were told that they had had a fantastic holiday - and we had received a postcard from them which omitted any details of their supposed robbery.

We never did find out what had happened - but suspect that it was an insurance scam, since several thousands pounds worth of jewellery was supposedly stolen. I suppose this makes me very cynical about these stories - especially as they are nearly always 'someone's friend' or a new poster on a forum,

Whilst we do stay on aires, out of choice, we would never leave valuables out on show (as caravanners know, there are very many places which are impossible to get at with two sleeping occupants - even if very soundly asleep) - and I am surprised at the naievety of those who do and then report that everything was stolen.

DJM · Aug 9, 2008

I'm sure quite a few savvy caravanners have taken advantage of this continuing crime with "insurance scams a plenty".

However, there are genuine victims, of which, I personally know quite a few, including long distance lorry drivers using Aires on a regular basis.

Also to add fuel to the fire I have been targeted both in the Montpellier area of France and in the Barcelona area of Spain on the motorways on more than one occasion in broad daylight by criminals trying their best to stop you on the pretence that something is wrong with your outfit and then trying to rob you at knife point.

Therefore, common sense tells me if these organised criminal gangs, mainly from Morroco, Albania, Romania, and other Eastern European countries are prepared to do this in the daytime, then it is pretty obvious not to stop on Aires at night time and entice them to enter your van and take what they want.

From our extensive experience of overseas touring with a caravan,(in excess of 35 years), as far as we are concerned Aires are a definite NO NO AND ALWAYS USE A CAMP SITE.

Guest · Aug 10, 2008

All over Europe Caravanner's and Motorhomer's and a variety of freight drivers will be bedding down in service areas lay-by's and pull ins tonight. Many of us who are in the leisure groups will not use camp sites for a variety of reasons and some that use camp sites will find they have been robbed by the morning.

I've lived and worked in some of the world more unsavoury spots and seen more than my fair share of hotel rooms, in the past 47 years.

A few pointers. Never leave your wallet and keys near you doors at home!

Cars get stolen in the UK as thieves find the keys near the front door!

When travelling, split up your money and cards. A fat wallet on holiday or in many foreign "ports" is seen as asking to be relieved of it. In hotels keep your valuables tucked away whilst you sleep and use safety deposit boxes or room safes. It's also a wise traveller who splits up keys and in a number of countries I've put a chair behind the door and I've actually been woken during the night due to that precaution. All these things should be applied when caravanning if you have any sense no matter what country you are in.

As an Ex Pat I read UK news sites most days of the week and you don't live in a particularly crime free zone! On a recent visit to the UK with "Aussie Rellies" we felt far more uncomfortable and at risk at times than we ever feel in France!

It's quite funny to read Grimbo's comments on Eastern European's in France with all the problems with similar types in the UK!

Rather than telling others where to pitch their caravans at night when thousands safely park on Aires, Services and Lay-By's nightly.

We should all be aware that a caravan door locks are very weak and that wise campers add extra internal security to prevent doors and windows being opened without a lot of noisy effort.

Wise caravanner's and travellers split up their valuables and put them in out of the way secure areas so that in the event of theft the thief does not get lucky.

Wise caravanner's stopping coupled to the car for the night, lock the hitch with a quality security device and don't keep the key with the cars.

Wise car drivers and caravan/motorhomers add more basic security devices to deter thieves. Old fashioned Krooklock or similar is a good visual deterrent when touring at any time.

For years bike fans have ridden to Le Castalet and other bike racing circuits from around Europe, and quite a lot will sleep the night in bags or under plastic sheeting at the road side stops. As a long time caravanner's like many others we have stopped at service areas to many times to recall with no problem at all.

We have a TV and Radio at home and know the local police well. There are problems in France as there are every where, but not to the extent that is being suggested here.

Is Jo truly upset about what has been said here or because her family failed to take some very basic precautions that some of us have questioned and she is kicking herself about. In many years of caravanning we've not had any bad experiences at road side stops and nor have any of our caravanning peers that we know of. We've been on camp sites where people have been robbed and bikes and equipment have been stolen and we've had a BBQ , Chairs and water carriers stolen on site.

Would we suggest avoiding a trip to London or Paris because a knife has been pulled or a handbag has been snatched? Street crime is a threat in many European places, so is Jo suggesting that we all stay at home!

Was there not a TV show in the UK where a families caravan and car were stolen in the middle of the day from Rownham Services on the M27? Do I assume that caravanner's never stop there any more!

Or do others take as much appropriate care as they can and still do what they have done for years without worrymongering?

The theft of our car would be devastating if I left my wallet and all my money/cards together with keys within easy reach of a thief. But the thief would be lucky to get away with my wifes cards and money at the same time, so paying to get out of trouble should not be a problem in the short term!

DJM · Aug 10, 2008

Euro,

Your not the only expat on this forum. I have worked and lived in the Middle East region and Europe for the past twenty years, therefore, I also consider myself to be well travelled and "Street Wise".

As you quite correctly say the UK is not a crime free zone however, robberies as experienced by Jo haven't surfaced in the UK yet, but probably will at some point in the future.

As for finding my comments about Easter Europeans in France quite funny, well you are entitled to laugh and have your own opinion like anyone else.

However, one day you may well be the victim of a similar crime and then who will be laughing?

After all, if we were all the same it would be a sad World to live in. You prefer to stay on Aires and I prefer to stay on camp sites and that is down to our own individual choice. I am not saying you are wrong to do so, but I know which one I feel safer on. As for your comment stating that you have never had problems on Aires, similarly I have never incurred any theft or robbery from a well managed camp site.

I'm in Qatar at the moment and I don't have any hassle whatsoever as there aren't avid caravanners here yet or anyone without a valid work permit or ID card etc.. but I'll be touring in France and Spain next month and through personal choice I won't be staying on any Aires due to my previous first hand experience of mainly Eastern European highway criminals.

PS - I sold my property in Torrevieja Spain which I purchased in 1979 and sold in 2002, due to the influx of Eastern Europeans and the crime wave which followed them and returned to touring in Europe with my caravan in order to get away from them, but it's not been easy. I keep bumping into them all over the place, particularly in the South of France and the Spanish coast roads where I spend at least six months per year touring around. It's not a myth it is a fact, these crimes are an everyday ocurrence.

Happy trails and stay safe.

EvansofSprot · Aug 10, 2008

I'm sorry but I still feel that camping the night in aires is potentially foolhardy. As I said before you would not do it here so why do it abroard?

The only times I have been robbed in nearly forty years travelling in France were by French people!

Don't do it!

g_374369443 · Aug 10, 2008

I found that the information available on these type of sites are invaluable,and the different opinions are of good use to.

But sometimes things should really be put into perspective,and for us living in the UK,we are far more likely to be robbed at home,than whilst travelling in our caravans abroad.

Sure robberies do occur and some of the posters have indeed given out sound advice as to how one should protect ones valuables,and threads like this help, to remind us by making it fresh in our minds.

As for the gassing remarks! Not really worth a second thought really,as there is no proper evidence to give it any worthwhile credence what so ever.[scientifically and that should count due to no reported deaths!]

"Myth" OK so maybe its not a total myth, but get real the odds are so long, why worry yourself or others for that matter.

More chance of a 500/1 winning the grand national, or having a breakdown,or having a accident.

So surely its better if we try to keep it in perspective,and takecare.

Guest · Aug 10, 2008

Where does this idea come from that people do not stop in service areas and pull ins in the UK. That is not correct!

And Please stop telling people what is safe and what is not! Because somebody has been robbed in France, that does not make it unsafe.

How you go about doing it and where you stop is the main factor in what is safe and wise.

Family friends fit elderly retired parents live near Bordeaux and still tour in a Hymer Motorhome for months each year, they have never paid for a european camp site in nearly 20 years and have plenty of motorhoming friends who do the same. They have been safe as have we and plenty of others. So why do some here persist in forcing their fears and predjudices on others.

Many people who stop at will do so to make the most of the time available to them, if they take some simple basic precations they are taking no more risk than walking down any local street in the UK no matter what any worrymongerers here would have caravannners believe.

DJM · Aug 10, 2008

There's only one um - if the cap fits where it.

DJM · Aug 11, 2008

Have a look at this link concerning a report published by the well respected Guardian newspaper. It's even happening on trains in Italy now.

And who are the culprits - you guessed it Euro........... Eastern Europeans - wake up you sceptics and face reality.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/mar/12/italy.international

Chrisbee · Aug 11, 2008

Have a look at this link concerning a report published by the well respected Guardian newspaper. It's even happening on trains in Italy now.

And who are the culprits - you guessed it Euro........... Eastern Europeans - wake up you sceptics and face reality.

]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/mar/12/italy.international

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/mar/12/italy.international[/quote
I always overnight on campsites when in the UK or abroad but that is because I'm on holiday and any kind of service area is not my kind of thing. Apart from anything else, I need a suitable area to exercise my dog. To me the journey, including overnights, is part of the holiday and I want to enjoy it. Having said that I wouldn't be too worried about staying at an aires as I'm sure my dog would alert me to any potential danger. My fear is returning home to find my house has been burgled whilst I was away. This happend some years ago even though my neighbours visited my house twice a day and the property was alarmed.

Lutz · Aug 11, 2008

Following an incident in, of all places Sweden, the German Auto Club ADAC issued a warning to caravanners touring Sweden not to camp on their own out in the wild, which is normally permitted there. Once again, Eastern Europeans were the perpetrators.

SteveW77 · Aug 11, 2008

If these incidents do occur, can someone please explain why there has never been a report of the remains of these narcotic spray cans ever being found, or are we to believe that these people are extremely house-proud thieves & robbers who despite the fact that they operate in the middle of the night, never repeat never leave any forensic evidence behind. They must be cleverer than the thieving rat bags that broke into my caravan, as they left enough evidence to hang them, if it was allowed.

Steve W

EvansofSprot · Aug 11, 2008

I assume we are all talking about road side 'Aires', and not the ones springing up in towns and villages all over France and intended for use by motorhomes!

Guest · Aug 11, 2008

I think Grimbo may have got the wrong end of the stick, I assumed tht he realised that a quite a few UK areas now have an Eastern European crime problem as well as France and Spain and other EU countries. On a recent visit to London we witnessed the police at work with EE pick pockets.

chenzhen · May 19, 2016

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Robberies on French - Reply to All.

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DavidKlyne

Mac2

DJM

ValA.

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DJM

EvansofSprot

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