Sanity check my numbers?

Apr 12, 2018
9
0
0
Visit site
Hi,

Brand new to this we are just looking for our 1st caravan now. However we also made the decision after getting a brand new car which we are now stuck with for at least 2 years.

I have been through documentaion, web sites forums but would appreciate my numbers been sanity checked by the knowledgeable among you before we properly take the plunge.

I passed my test in 1991
So car states max towing is 1600KG
VIN weights:
1890KG
3290KG
0975KG
1040KG

So from above am under the impression I could look for vans with an MPTLM of under 1400KG.

Does this sound right or should I look at 85% of 1600KG which is 1360KG?

It can be extremely confusing and there seems to be a lot of differing conflicting "advice" So any help appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
 
Nov 11, 2009
22,205
7,339
50,935
Visit site
shaka said:
Hi,

Brand new to this we are just looking for our 1st caravan now. However we also made the decision after getting a brand new car which we are now stuck with for at least 2 years.

I have been through documentaion, web sites forums but would appreciate my numbers been sanity checked by the knowledgeable among you before we properly take the plunge.

I passed my test in 1991
So car states max towing is 1600KG
VIN weights:
1890KG
3290KG
0975KG
1040KG

So from above am under the impression I could look for vans with an MPTLM of under 1400KG.

Does this sound right or should I look at 85% of 1600KG which is 1360KG?

It can be extremely confusing and there seems to be a lot of differing conflicting "advice" So any help appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Hi welcome to the forum. What is the car model that you have ?
 
Apr 12, 2018
9
0
0
Visit site
Thanks! It's an Audi A4, manual petrol.

Reluctant to say it's just 1.4 TFSI. Appreciate completely bad choice now but we are committed for a while. It's 2018 plate 150ps and doesn't feel like a 1.4 but realise it's going to be well down on possible torque.
 
May 24, 2014
3,687
765
20,935
Visit site
Hi and welcome, firstly, the 85% you speak of is only a suggestion but its a good one to adhere to for a newbie.

That figure is suggested against you cars kerbweight.

Im presuming from the VIN figures that your kerbweight is 1890kgs, check that properly. 85% = 1606kg.
Does your licence have B plus E, I assume it does as you passed in 1991, I think 1997 was the change.
.
You will also need to know a plethora of other weights to consider for loading and such, but pay attention to your noseweight, what does the book say your car will take on the towball. Most saloons will be between 65kg and some up as high as 90kg, a good average is around 75kg. That mainly comes down to how you load the caravan which is where a lot of the skill is.

Have a look at www.towcar.info and do a comparison with the vans you fancy. As an example I just ran your car against my own caravan a Swift Challenger Sport 524. see below and remember this is only a guide and the opinion of towcar.info.

Audi & Swift
The towing limit is exceeded by 15 kg!
It is not allowed to drive with this Swift.
Make sure the towing limit is correct.

The conclusion is, if the Audi A4 - 1.4 TFSI and the Swift Challenger Sport 524 with a laden weight of 1415 kg, would not be legally too heavy that it would be a moderate match, only for experienced (caravan) drivers.

Verdict as the caravan would not be legaly too heavy
The Audi A4 - 1.4 TFSI and the Swift Challenger Sport 524 of a laden weight of 1415 kg is a combination just suitable for most journeys but also with some limitations.
Weight
The risk of snaking at higher speeds, strong side winds and thoughtless driving exist. Even if the combination normally feels stable, the forces by deflection side to side are so great that it could be dangerous. Only if the driver has knowledge of and experience in driving a caravan it should be safe to drive. Proper and careful loading is essential! An electronic stability system in the car and / or on the caravan is recommended.
Flat roads
The performances of the engine of this outfit are in general fairly good. Under favourable conditions on motorways it is possible to drive with 60 mph in the 6th gear, by giving the engine nearly full throttle. Faster is certainly not advisable! In that case the engine runs approximately 1900 rpm. Maybe the engine is not running smoothly at low revs so it is better to shiftdown to the 5th gear, the engine runs in that case 2200 rpm. For example, in a headwind or a crossover, downshift to the 5th gear. The engine runs approximately 2200 rpm.
Mountains
On most motorways inclines (1:20) driving is easily possible in the 3th gear with 50 mph and even full throttle with 63 mph. Hill starts are possible even on steep slopes up to 15%, if the front wheels have sufficient traction. While driving the engine has enough power on slopes of 27% to drive.

To end, it is worth pointing out that exceeding any of the given weights supplied by car or caravan manufacturer, and of course your licence could and probably will invalidate your insurance.
 
Apr 12, 2018
9
0
0
Visit site
Thanks for the detailed response, I have looked at that site but it's results aren't always that easy to interpret.
Just the initial "this combination is X overweight etc.."
Was looking for a number I can work with, but like you say worth running potential candidates through that.

I hasn't even really started looking at noseweight! There's an awful lot to take in! But appreciate your time in looking.
 
Nov 11, 2009
22,205
7,339
50,935
Visit site
1890kg kerbweight for an A4 Estate looks too heavy. What does the V5 show. That should show Mass in service ( near to kerbweight) and Maximum Authorised Mass and Gross Train Weight.
 
Apr 12, 2018
9
0
0
Visit site
So haven't got the v5 to hand but from a manual
Gross Vehicle Weight 1,890kg
Minimum Kerbweight 1,320kg

So am I looking at 85% of the gross or its total empty weight....?
 
May 24, 2014
3,687
765
20,935
Visit site
Kerbweight, 85% or ish of that, never more than 100% but even approaching that figure is unwise for a novice.

One single vehicle could have various types of weights, and curb and gross vehicle weights are two such terms. Fortunately, it’s not difficult to explain the curb weight vs gross vehicle weight concept. These are the terms you will find on the compliance plate and the owner’s manual of your car. What do they actually mean? Well, these are nothing but the weights of an automobile at two different conditions.

What is the Kerbweight

Also known as kerb weight, it refers to the actual weight of a vehicle including all the factory-installed equipment, facilities, and 90% full fuel tank. But, it does not count the load of any aftermarket installed items or the passengers and goods. To aptly put, it indicates the heaviness of a car when it rests on a curb. This is the actual weight of a vehicle assigned by its manufacturer.
What is Gross Vehicle Mass or Weight?

The actual weight of a car is known as the gross vehicle mass or weight (GVW). It refers to the current weight of a vehicle will all of its parts and everything inside it including cargo and passengers.

On the other hand, the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) indicates the highest load that an automobile can carry. The number is assigned by the manufacturer and it does not change under any circumstance. It includes the weight of all the components of the car, driver, passengers, cargo, fuel, and other things.

Otherclive is quite right, 1890 kg on reflection does seem awful high for that vehicle, its actually the GVW.. According to towcar.info 1570kg is the laden or GVW of that car and whatcar.com say the kerbweight is only 1320 kg, model dependent.

I would take a look at Practical Caravans own guide here
https://www.practicalcaravan.com/advice/28415-your-essential-guide-to-matching-cars-and-caravans
 
Mar 8, 2017
391
13
1,685
wandering.me.uk
shaka said:
Hi,

Brand new to this we are just looking for our 1st caravan now. However we also made the decision after getting a brand new car which we are now stuck with for at least 2 years.

I have been through documentaion, web sites forums but would appreciate my numbers been sanity checked by the knowledgeable among you before we properly take the plunge.

I passed my test in 1991
So car states max towing is 1600KG
VIN weights:
1890KG
3290KG
0975KG
1040KG

So from above am under the impression I could look for vans with an MPTLM of under 1400KG.

Does this sound right or should I look at 85% of 1600KG which is 1360KG?

It can be extremely confusing and there seems to be a lot of differing conflicting "advice" So any help appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Welcome to the wonderful world of caravanning and this forum.

I followed the same course as you, brought a car, then decided to buy a caravan and found that, in our case, our rather nice comfortable car was the most unsuitable tower ever designed.

I will not add, or indeed distract from the advice given here so far, but simply say that the mental fog will clear as you make sense of the various confusing numbers that we have to contend with.
 
Apr 12, 2018
9
0
0
Visit site
Ha oh lord thanks Dodger I think! :)
Yeah its a company car I can change in 2 years but for now we will just have to buy accordingly.
I thought I had it based on the vin numbers but seems not.
The quest continues! :cheer:
 
Oct 12, 2013
3,037
4
0
Visit site
Shaka ,
don't worry , I'm sure you will sort this as we did a few years ago we had a Toyota 7 seater 2.2 turbo diesel but although we thought we had a good tow car Toyota put quite a low tow weight cap so we were governed to 13 - 1400 kilograms but we got there. If you just look at what you need, you'll find something . We put up with it for a few years until we changed our car and even happier now !
Good luck .
Craig .
 
May 7, 2012
8,596
1,818
30,935
Visit site
I do have to agree with other posts that this car is too light for many caravans. You do not say how many you wish to accommodate in the caravan though, but the kerb weight of that car will limit you considerably. If there are only two of you there are quite a few small two berth caravans that the car will manage starting with the really small Lunar Arriva but medium to large ones are out. Beyond that there is the Adria Altea Forth and the Bailey Pursuit 400-2 and Caravalair Antares 335 in new models and a few others in the second hand market..
If you need four berths you might find something but the choice will be very limited. The Xplore 304 possibly being the lightest might work but it would be a tight squeeze. Beyond four berths I think you will not find anything.
 
Mar 14, 2005
18,275
3,552
50,935
Visit site
shaka said:
Hi,

Brand new to this we are just looking for our 1st caravan now. However we also made the decision after getting a brand new car which we are now stuck with for at least 2 years.

I have been through documentaion, web sites forums but would appreciate my numbers been sanity checked by the knowledgeable among you before we properly take the plunge.

I passed my test in 1991
So car states max towing is 1600KG
VIN weights:
1890KG
3290KG
0975KG
1040KG

So from above am under the impression I could look for vans with an MPTLM of under 1400KG.

Does this sound right or should I look at 85% of 1600KG which is 1360KG?

It can be extremely confusing and there seems to be a lot of differing conflicting "advice" So any help appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Hello shaka,

Ill try this on a PC this time!

The UK caravan industry recognise that towing a caravan is very different to towing a small trailer, and to help caravanners to make sensible choices of car and caravan they have derived some guidance. Especially inexperienced caravanners should first aim for a caravan with an MTPLM not exceeding 85% of the tow vehicles kerbweight. As experience grows, a larger percentage may be adopted but the industry does not recommend exceeding 100%. This is only guidance and it has no legal force, so don't let it become a deal breaker for a few percent either way.

It should also be noted that the advice is not a guarantee that the outfit will be legal, safe or even a good towing experience, Also it relies on criteria such as kerbweight which is not always published by car manufacturers, and its definition has several variations, so this guidance is a very loose indeed.

Car manufactures are required to publish certain weight limits data about their cars, but strange as it may seem Kerbweight is not one of them, so finding out what a vehicles kerbweight is can sometimes be difficult. However they do have to publish Unladen Weight or Mass In service, which whilst not exactly the same as kerbweight are similar enough for the purpose of the industry advice calculations.

What does have legal force are the weight limits set out on the vehicles data plate. You have supplied the figures for your car but I do suspect you have mixed the order up because the format is laid down in EU regulations - not to worry, because the two largest figure are the ones that matter at the moment. The solo car has a maximum weight limit its Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW)which you have given as 1890kg. The largest figure is the cars Gross Train Weight (GTW) which you have given as 3290kg.

The difference between the GTW - GVW = 1400kg, and it represents the maximum towed weight the FULLY LADEN car is rated to tow.

You tell us that Audi have quoted the car has a Towed Weight Limit of 1600kg. This is 200kg grater than the GTW - GVW and it means to keep within the legal GTW figure the car could only be part loaded to 1690kg. I suspect that in your case this is more academic than practical information.

Returning to the Kerbweight issue, Manufacturers are reluctant to post a specific kerbweight figure, simple because the weight of a car will vary due to manufacturing tolerances, and some dealer fitted options will also affect its weight. but we can get to a reasonable guesstimate.

The car has a published GVW 1890kg, As rough guide most car manufacturers will allow approximately 100kg per seat for passenger an luggage, so a 5 seater will have a load margin of about 500kg. That leaves 1890 - 500 = Aproximately 1390kg as an estimated kerbweight.

The industry guidance looks for 85% of 1390 = 1181kg In round numbers I would suggest looking for a caravan with a MTPLM of up to 1200kg
 
Apr 12, 2018
9
0
0
Visit site
That's great thank you all some of the mystery has been lifted!
It does mean we may have to rethink possible options but some very sound advice, its much appreciated!
 

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts