sat nav

[NickinFrance]

My co plot live 8 on my smartphone is quick and ........ not free but for £20 its become the benchmark of what to beat on smartphones. and nobody come close to beating it yet......

I'm looking for an Android SatNav program, so have just looked at Copilot Live & can't see it for £20, even the UK only version is £26.99.
FWIW I have a Garmin Navi which is very good but I hired a Tom-Tom to take on a recent trip to the US & found that to be more than useless in major cities, it was trying to generate complex lane maps & frequently only displayed them after I gone past them

 

[JonnyG]

last week they "co pilot live" were on Ebay "original" and proper for £14 for UK mapping. bought one for the wife.
Atm there is one for bidding sitting at £8.50 and ending in 23 hours, and if you dont like/want lane guidence, then co pilot live 7 is available for under £10......just make sure you get the right one for your phone, ie windows/android/ iphone ect ect...

 

[NickinFrance]

last week they "co pilot live" were on Ebay "original" and proper for £14 for UK mapping.

Thanks but I spend so much time shutting down e-bay auctions for software we publish, I wouldn't buy software off e-bay.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

FWIW I have a Garmin Navi which is very good but I hired a Tom-Tom to take on a recent trip to the US & found that to be more than useless in major cities, it was trying to generate complex lane maps

These sort of issues are mainly caused by lack of signal, either the satnav is badly positioned inside the car, the car has a coated windscreen that blcks the satellite signal or high rise building or hillside block the satnav view of enough satellite lock ons.

Steve in Leo posted that he attaches his satnav to a drinks holder. Most drink holders are not positioned in a position for a good view of all the satellite locks the machine needs to work well. There are cases of satnavs acting up beacuase the satnav is badly positioned and not working easily, the processing does starnge things and that sets off other problems.

Closing down Ebay sites! I would be more worried about the sites that offer the programs FOC and the softare that makes the use undetectable ;-)

 

[NickinFrance]

These sort of issues are mainly caused by lack of signal, either the satnav is badly positioned inside the car,

It was nothing to do with signal, I was getting a good signal.
One particular set of junctions that caused problems was http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=fort+worth&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.909425,77.255859&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Fort+Worth,+Tarrant,+Texas&ll=32.748734,-97.319427&spn=0.025555,0.037723&z=15
The Tom Tom was so busy trying to draw the lanes & signs, it couldn't keep up with giving directions

Closing down Ebay sites! I would be more worried about the sites that offer the programs FOC and the software that makes the use undetectable ;-)

People selling illegal copies of 'our' programs are stealing from me, so they get shut down & pay damages.
People using 'wherez' sites would never pay for the program anyway also, generally these sites & the cracks are so virus & Trojan laden that the people who use them generally get what they deserve

 

[JonnyG]

Dont ask me why, as i have no idea, but tom toms need regular updates with tom tom home and indeed soft resets to keep them working at there best. although I am not totally taken by tom tom, cannot say I have come upon the issues nick describes, as a regular occurrence in the 13 months I have been using my tom tom live, and indeed lane guidance was one of the functions i was investing into at the time of purchase, and have found it an invaluable tool.
Like so many of these mini computers you have to know how to use them properly to aid you, that might sound silly but you have the option of how it instructs you with its warnings and from how far away from your next turn to start instructing you, how many users set this option up?, and then there's the screen, so you can take a glance to see exactly what's what, as an instruction claiming you need to turn in 200 yards might fool you into turning 30 yards too early or late if there is actually 2 streets side by side.
So the tom tom is not perfect, but then nor are any of the alternatives.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

If the unit is trying to draw lanes and mapping and can't keep up, that suggests that the processor is struggling. Has the unit had anything extra added to clog memory and slow it down?
Sorry Nick but because the unit shows it having a good signal in a built up area whilst moving it can lose some of the satellite locks and I understand it then works harder to establish its positions and starts to lag behind when it is constantly moving. Good positioning for a view of the sky is pretty vital in built up areas. the ammount of drawing of map detail must have an effect, but I can replicate what you describe in London and around Spagetti junction if I reposition either of our sat navs or just disconnect the additional aerial on my Garmin.
Just out of interest, what are your programs ?

 

[NickinFrance]

If the unit is trying to draw lanes and mapping and can't keep up, that suggests that the processor is struggling. Has the unit had anything extra added to clog memory and slow it down?

Not that I knew of, I did a hard reset as soon as I got it, I still think it was trying to be too clever for it's own good.

Just out of interest, what are your programs ?

That might be seen as advertising but If the mods give you my e-mail address & you contact me, I'll let you know.

 

[JonnyG]

"A hard reset"?

 

[OmOnWeelz]

"A hard reset"?

I think most Satnavs have a "hard reset" option. On the back pf my older Garmin under that aerial there is a small hard reset button, If you hold it down for X number of seconds it resets the unit to its factory settings and clears any info you have stored in the inboard memory. Som units have a oin hole where you insert the end of pin or paper clip. Google 'hard reset" for your brand of satnav and the model number should bring up the instructions, any questions I've had about Satnav issues have been answered by the forum members at PocketGPSworld.com since I was advised to join the forum. PGPSW must be the world leader in answering any satnav queeries. The data base and know how there is amazing between the team and members

 

[JonnyG]

"A hard reset"?

I think most Satnavs have a "hard reset" option. On the back pf my older Garmin under that aerial there is a small hard reset button, If you hold it down for X number of seconds it resets the unit to its factory settings and clears any info you have stored in the inboard memory. Som units have a oin hole where you insert the end of pin or paper clip. Google 'hard reset" for your brand of satnav and the model number should bring up the instructions, any questions I've had about Satnav issues have been answered by the forum members at PocketGPSworld.com since I was advised to join the forum. PGPSW must be the world leader in answering any satnav queeries. The data base and know how there is amazing between the team and members

Cheers Chris, I asked nick because the tom tom has a "soft reset " where you hold the on/off button down for 15 seconds and to do a "hard reset" one has to go to tom tom home, register and do computer things way above my limited knowledge

.....and again doing a soft reset isnt going to make much difference if the device is not up to date from being hooked up-to tom tom home on a regular basis, which i doubt a hired unit would be...

 

[NickinFrance]

"A hard reset"?

A Soft Reset followed by 'Reset to Factory Defaults' buried somewhen in the Preferences menu.
The instructions from the hire company had the procedure as they recommended that it should be done before returning the unit.

 

[JonnyG]

"A hard reset"?

A Soft Reset followed by 'Reset to Factory Defaults' buried some when in the Preferences menu.
The instructions from the hire company had the procedure as they recommended that it should be done before returning the unit.

I was worried that, that was what was done. You see when you buy the latter tom toms, they should be hooked up to a computer a back up should be made,as instructed by tom tom home. this is because [I have been led to believe] if something gets corrupted you can hook it up to the computer and fix it. "A factory reset" If the factory resets was infallible, there would be no need to actually back up the programme on your computer in the first place.
If a "factory reset" was infallible, then when the tom tom developed issues as they do,if a factory reset could correct it, you wouldn't have to talk on the phone to the tech department , who then send you files down the internet to correct whatever is wrong with the device.and being slow to react and update instructions seems to have it own section in the problems area of tom tom home, and factory resets dont fix it.....

My point is nick, you make the assumption that because you did what you did, the tom tom device you had was functioning correctly, which is not technically true, indeed yours being from a hire company one could assume rightly that the unit would indeed be prone to problems, as they would not be looked after and updated correctly, and would be more prone to corrupted data..

 

[NickinFrance]

indeed yours being from a hire company one could assume rightly that the unit would indeed be prone to problems, as they would not be looked after and updated correctly, and would be more prone to corrupted data..

Actually, I would assume the opposite, that it is more likely that the hire company would install the latest firmware.

you make the assumption that because you did what you did, the tom tom device you had was functioning correctly,

I would hope that the device was functioning correctly when it left the factory
There were also other little niggles I had with the Tom-Tom (like not being able to sort 'favourites' by proximity) & the UI that I didn't like but maybe that could be familiarity with my Garmin & Magellan units.
I knew the 2 men who founded Tom Tom & initially they had some good products but now they seem to be releasing so may products (such is the SatNav market) that they seem to take the Microsoft (or caravan industry) approach of letting the users find the bugs & then fix them.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I cannot comment specifically about the sat navs mentioned above, but in general there is a difference between a soft and hard reset. The soft reset normally returns an appliance back to its start up condition with all modifications and updates left intact. As Hard or factory reset returns the unit to the condition it had when it left the factory, i.e. all updates and modifications will be erased

 

[RayS]

Very disapointed with satnav especially original equipment in Mercedes. Does not recognise many UK post codes - including my home address. Complained loudly and at the first service it was alleged updated but still does not recognise my own post code. Also does not recognise large sections of autopista in Spain which to my certain knowledge have been open for 4 years.
Tried looking at the same sections in a major UK seller of satnavs and = guess what - neither did most of what they were selling.
Regardless of makers name, most satnavs use one of only two or three basic mapping systems and they are only as good as the latest update of these. Most originate in USA; although they seem to know Europe exists the updates are way way behind the times. For some years after it opened the M6 toll was not shown.
I would be most interested to hear if anyone has used the Michelin downloads to a PDA or phone, as it would seem that these may stand a better chance of being updated more often. (Although if you use the viamichelin website even their maps can be more than a year out of date - even for France)

 

[OmOnWeelz]

I would be most interested to hear if anyone has used the Michelin downloads to a PDA or phone, as it would seem that these may stand a better chance of being updated more often. (Although if you use the viamichelin website even their maps can be more than a year out of date - even for France)

Garmin use Navteq mapping, many in the satanv world consider Navteq as being superior to Teleatlas in mapping quality and the way it works in the satnav.
Tomtom use TeleAtlas mapping and Michelin also use TeleAtlas so I wouldn't expect Michelin mapping to be any better than Tomtom and I heard that Michelin were abandoning the sat nav market due to the likes of Garmin and Tomtom and Nokia.
Nokia have owned Navteq for about 3 years, I've no post code issues with my older Garmin and find Nokia very good as well. Makes sense when they are both using Navteq.

 

[JonnyG]

I would be most interested to hear if anyone has used the Michelin downloads to a PDA or phone, as it would seem that these may stand a better chance of being updated more often. (Although if you use the viamichelin website even their maps can be more than a year out of date - even for France)

Garmin use Navteq mapping, many in the satanv world consider Navteq as being superior to Teleatlas in mapping quality and the way it works in the satnav.
Tomtom use TeleAtlas mapping and Michelin also use TeleAtlas so I wouldn't expect Michelin mapping to be any better than Tomtom and I heard that Michelin were abandoning the sat nav market due to the likes of Garmin and Tomtom and Nokia.
Nokia have owned Navteq for about 3 years, I've no post code issues with my older Garmin and find Nokia very good as well. Makes sense when they are both using Navteq.

When i was being brought up in the 70s, the ROLLS ROYCE had the reputation of being the best car in the world, clearly it was not so much for reputations. When i got my first sat nav, navteq was indeed claimed to be the best, but you cannot live on your reputation, and since nokia bought Navteq, users like Garmin have not really been active in keeping ahead!

Tom tom bought tele atlas a few years back, and i cannot say which is now the superior system, as surely the "engine" that runs over the mapping plays a great part in how good the system works, and not just the mapping, otherwise i would suggest "Google" to have the edge on mapping.
But what is not up for argument is TOM TOM use data collected from millions of users around the world who log onto tom tom home, to keep on improving their mapping, their " by using a correction system, which is built into the tom tom device, it can be used for roads that have changed, be it priority or have become no through roads ect ect they have the ability to add speed camera's and other data then you send the info to TOM TOM, who once they can confirm the info is correct, usually be other users stating the same info, they"tom tom" make the changes readily available to all other users "weekly"
Who makes the best mapping system today? I have no idea, but if Google gets involved properly, might be interesting...

 

[ProfJohnL]

Sadly its a fact of life, that most maps are out of date as soon as they are published, and the same must apply to Sat Navs.

In a cruel way the current depression its likely that some major road projects may be delayed or cancelled, so the maps will loose their accuracy more slowely!

 

[NickinFrance]

but if Google gets involved properly, might be interesting...

I've been playing with Google maps & apps on an Android phone & it shows local roads that have changed within the past 3 months.
The copyright message on Google Maps is Europa Technologies, Google & Tele Atlas.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Currently Google shows mapping of my home from May 2009 and that's a long way behind Satanav update. My ageing Garmin gets four updates a year and I've not found that a problem. Along side a new all singing Tomtom on a trip to Paris via Ypres the Garmin was still the better option and in Paris the simpler Garmin beat the Tomtom hands down. Our daughter and partner holiday in the USA 5 or 6 times a year, they've had hire car co up to date Tomtom but after taking advice from American friends they bought a new Garmin an added EU and GP mapping .
If you buy a road Atlas that many still swear by it's never going to get an update and has no idea where you are. Re routed over and Irish river on a new road last year it was obvious what was going on and we've had the same in the UK and Spain. It's not really that difficult to cope with a new road or new road layout.

 

[JonnyG]

Currently Google shows mapping of my home from May 2009 and that's a long way behind Satanav update. My ageing Garmin gets four updates a year and I've not found that a problem. Along side a new all singing Tomtom on a trip to Paris via Ypres the Garmin was still the better option and in Paris the simpler Garmin beat the Tomtom hands down. Our daughter and partner holiday in the USA 5 or 6 times a year, they've had hire car co up to date Tomtom but after taking advice from American friends they bought a new Garmin an added EU and GP mapping .
If you buy a road Atlas that many still swear by it's never going to get an update and has no idea where you are. Re routed over and Irish river on a new road last year it was obvious what was going on and we've had the same in the UK and Spain. It's not really that difficult to cope with a new road or new road layout.

Well i suppose if thats the case buy a Garmin for the USA.! "updates" well they both offer regular updates, which are still out of date, thats why tom tom home is superior to just a quarterly update, as users can change things in real time.Garmin offers no such facility. infact its home site is limited to say the least."routes" Just a short 100 mile run down to London, our Garmin units will take the A5 at the end of the m/way for anywhere as far across as regents street! The tom toms take the A41.....and gets there first!
Come out of London from say marble arch area and again the garmin takes you up the A5, the tom tom starts with the A5, takes you across st johns wood to the top of regents park,onto the a41, and guess who gets back to the M/way first!
So i assume i should be posting that the TOM TOM is superior?but i have not said that.

lets see just come back from scotland, just above Aberdeen, done the route a few times. garmin 550, would take me up to aberdeen, has the traffic function, and yet there i am stuck in night time rush hour traffic around Aberdeen.
Tom tom actually did what it said it would do rerouted me around morning traffic time rush hour! going up [garmin] 9hrs 25mins coming back [tom tom] 8hr.59mins. That was Monday evening [Garmin], Tuesday morning[ tom tom]!
Dont even get me started on Europe! but again i still cannot say which is the better sat nav, because i haven't driven 4 million miles on a regular basis to be able to say with certainty which is better.Which is why I am always sceptic when somebody posts with certainty which is best, based on limited usage of the 4 odd million miles of European roads

 

[nelmo]

I can't understand why everyone worries about having the most up-to-date maps.
My current sat-nav software is 2 years old and I bought an old version at the time (for my Nokia, £10 off eBay). Before that, I had v5 of TomTom (from 2002?) on an old Compaq iPaq. On the rare occassion I come across a changed bit of the map, it's normally blindingly obvious (a junction that's become a roundabout, a new set of traffic lights etc).
The one time I came across a new bypass, I just carried on the new road (the sat nav showed me in a field!) until I returned to the original road it did know about. Not exactly a hardship and saves on expensive updates...

 

[JonnyG]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150555602697&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNARL:GB:1123#vi-desc
This is for anyone owning a smart phone running on the Android system.It represents a really cheap way to get a top draw sat nav system for the fraction of the cost.

 

[Blondie4]

Hi,
I don't know whether you managed to find a European Sat Nav, but I've been researching the same thing. I've come up with the TomTom Caravan or the Snooper Ventura S2000N. These seem to be the best and I found them on this site

www.satnavcompany.com

If anybody has any more info on this would be great,

Thanks for your help,

Blondie