satelitte finder

[PETERA]

an any one recommend a decent satelitte finder that is not over expensive but does work. Getting fedb up of standing in the rain for hours on end when trying to find ASTRA 2 on holiday in France and Spain.

Thanks

PETERA

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi, I use one like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sky-Satellite-Dish-Signal-Finder-Alignment-Meter-Sat-Satfinder-/170827058031?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item27c6160b6f
cheap and cheerful does the job just as well as something costing 10x the price takes less than 5mins to set up the dish,

 

[RogerL]

It also helps to pre-research the satellite alignment on the internet before setting out - this will give the compass bearing and dish elevation from your planned campsite - they'll also give the LNB skew angle which increases the further you go away from the UK - I use http://www.dishpointer.com/
Be aware that the normal UK channels are being switched soon to a different satellite, but in the same location, which will have a very, very, narrow beam focussed just on the UK - it'll make reception possible from anywhere within the UK using a 40cm group 1 dish - BUT - make reception much, much, more difficult on mainland Europe requiring an even larger dish than currently needed. This change should have happened this autumn but has been delayed by a launch rocket failure.

 

[otherclive]

When the Proton rocket went astray earlier this year the new Astra 2E launch was next in line but then delayed pending the investigation. It was re scheduled to 15 Sept but the launch was stopped now its due 30 Sept. it then has to be manoeuvred into geo stationary orbit followed by 3 months commissioning. So early 2014 looks possible. It's been playing havoc with my sat box as some channels are on 1N and power is lower. But the predictions are you will need a 1.5 m dish in southern France (Med) wheras we have always been successful with a 54 cm dish. Looks like the library will get more visits in future or 20 yrs DVD backlog may be attacked.

 

[JTQ]

I use a simple audio/meter unit from SLx
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MX27860R.html
A users guide can be downloaded from that link.
Note these are not tuned to a specific satellite but detect
any signal that is around, so you need to point the dish reasonably in the
right place. My advice for doing that is to start just too far to the East of
our target and creep very slightly to the south. The rationale here is that of
the more powerful satellites up there “ours” is the one positioned furthest
East; a very fortunate situation. I plonk the dish down at 145 degrees [using a magnetic compass] then it only needs moving three odd degrees to the South to
find the satellite.
These finders are actually too sensitive and inclined to “scream”
at any even really minor satellites.
A very useful tip is to desensitise the finder so it only
bothers with the satellites that could be of interest, not everything up there.
This is done very simply and cheaply by screwing an attenuator into the LNB in
port.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/vhf-uhf-6db-in-line-satellite-attenuator/24426?_requestid=211538

 

[otherclive]

I use a Sadoun satellite finder it has a variable gain so you start off on high gain until you get a signal then as the meter needle goes over full scale you reduce the gain and readjust the satellite dish to get the needle further up the scale. It's very quick and cost peanuts. There's a video on YouTube showing how it works. I'll try and post the link.

Here it is. Search YouTube for Fast DirecTV or copy the link :
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dasil73C_K0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Ddasil73C_K0

 

[JTQ]

I should have made my comment clearer; the SLx finder is too sensitive even when set to its lowest gain. If it was not too sensitive it would of course not need an inline attenuator. It is certainly much more useable with the attenuator as I have also found other makesof finders to be when helping other people set up their dishes.

 

[otherclive]

The Sadoun has a built in attenuato/gain control so its sensitivity is easily controlled during setting up.

 

[SirRogerFFS]

As posted elsewhere Screwfix do a satellite finder and freeview all in one.Easy to use

 

[otherclive]

Good news the new Astra 2E has been launched successfully it should go live by end Dec 13. The previous launcher failure was due to the yaw gyros being installed upside down!!! Amazing that a safety critical item can be installed in the wrong orientation. Clearly Russian engineering and design still has a way to go. Mustn't fly Aeroflot!

 

[RogerL]

Mustn't fly Aeroflot!

That's always been good policy !
But it's bad news in Spain as any channels transferred to the UK spot beam, ie normal FTA UK channels, will be harder to receive - suggestions are that a 2m diameter dish will be needed although it's a case of wait-and-see what the actual signal strength is away from the spot beam.

 

[bertieboy1]

Empty post (likely not intentional - probably an Internet Explorer issue!)

 

[Parksy]

Hi Bertie Boy......
Unfortunately the text of your post has failed to load to the message board.It's highly likely that the reason for this will be your choice of web browser. Contrary to popular belief most versions of Internet Explorer use older incomplete codes which do not automatically update and which do not comply with present day internet technology. Microsoft recognise the problem and have come up with a way to resolve this issue, Click Here for instructions on how to activate the Internet Explorer compatibility mode. Alternatively you might like to choose a more up to date web browser such as Mozilla Firefox

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all,
well to be honest I find some "other peoples" attemps at setting up the sat quite a farce literaly, I have on occasion lent assistance, on site usually after an hour or so of fiddling.
do people really find it so difficult!!, follow some basic rules and it should take no more than 10 mins,
if you think about it, it's obvious, most will want to use freesat or sky, so want to tune to astra2, now in GB astra 2 is the most easterly satelitte, and no matter where you are, the azimuth and elevation will be more or less (within a few degrees) the same, because the satelittes are in geostationary orbit, and seeing as how its on average 38,000 km away and (unless you are sat on top of mt snowden or ben nevis) within 1000 ft off sea level.
start by having the fasteners finger tight "so they can be moved" setting the LNB to about 1 o clock (15 degrees) and the dish vertical (24 degrees) looking at the sun "if there is any" or use a compass to establish east, set the dish to just south of east about east, east , south, attach the sat finder move the dish southwards untill the finder screems turn down the volume to half and continue to rotate untill the best reception is found, lock the bolts, now move the dish tilt slightly to see if the signal gets stronger, (usually it won't) same with the LNB skew, lock all the bolts, go inside and enjoy.
done this several times blind and it works every time.
ps dont know how this works in Spain never been, but should be the same once the direction of the sattelitte is established.

 

[otherclive]

Is LNB 15 deg clockwise or anti clockwise when viewed from behind dish?
Colin your procedure is spot on, it works just the same if you are abroad. I've got a map which shows right down to Spain and superimposed on it are elevation and azimuth angles. What I generally do is use one of the websites which show your intended campsite on a google satellite view and then superimpose the Astra 2 angles as lines emanating from your site. Dead easy even with our 54 cm dish although its unlikely that will work with the new Astra footprint being more localised to UK. I sense a market opportunity for fold up portable dishes of 1-1.5.m!!

 

[RogerL]

The LNB Skew is clockwise when looking at the dish - so anti-clockwise from behind. I use 13 degrees.
Once set the skew never needs altering, the variation between UK and say Spain is very small.

I use a dish with the elevation angles marked on the rear fitting, and get the elevation and magnetic bearing beforehand from the internet - setting the dish to the required elevation and ensuring the tripod mast is vertical, it's just a simple matter of alignment with a compass - about 50% of the time that'll give 100% strength / 100% quality on the receiver diagnostics straight away so the rest of the time the signal finder is used to optimise the signal.
Then I retighten all the fittings, peg the tripod down AND use guyropes front/back at top of dish to stop it being blown over by gale force winds!

In the early days, I never ensured the tripod mast was vertical so the dish elevation was all over the place, taking a long time to set up.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi Clive and Rodger,
sorry, yes I should have said LNB skew @ 1 o clock looking at the dish from the front (clockwise), (and I assumed the tripod would be level), although as long as the mounting is secure (like on the jockeywheel) providing the dish is vertical to start with, adjustments to the elevation as in step two, would be minor,

 

[otherclive]

Mines the little Fastfinder dish by Mansar which sits on the ground and tends to generate some interesting looks and discussions. It has spirit levels already fitted and the elevation angles marked. Sitting on the ground its rock steady and only needs three wire pegs just to keep it in position. Some seem to think its lack of height a disadvantage but its been used all over UK and down to the Med without a problem. But like all dishes it cannot see through forests or around corners!! It's light and very compact too. I use it at home to watch welsh rugby channels since I took the sky dish down when freebies came along.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Mines the little Fastfinder dish by Mansar which sits on the ground and tends to generate some interesting looks and discussions. It has spirit levels already fitted and the elevation angles marked. Sitting on the ground its rock steady and only needs three wire pegs just to keep it in position. Some seem to think its lack of height a disadvantage but its been used all over UK and down to the Med without a problem. But like all dishes it cannot see through forests or around corners!! It's light and very compact too. I use it at home to watch welsh rugby channels since I took the sky dish down when freebies came along.

hi again Clive sounds like a nice bit of kit, you have there, I had to smile at the "Some seem to think its lack of height a disadvantage" comment it shows a complete lack of understanding of how dishes work doesn't it!!!

 

[Gafferbill]

I sense a market opportunity for fold up portable dishes of 1-1.5.m!!

Internet British TV is being widely promoted as the way to go for expats in Southern Spain with companies already providing this service.
The concensus is that reception by satelite dish will be too dificult if not impossible........does not look too good for British caravaners.

 

[RogerL]

I sense a market opportunity for fold up portable dishes of 1-1.5.m!!

Internet British TV is being widely promoted as the way to go for expats in Southern Spain with companies already providing this service.
The concensus is that reception by satelite dish will be too dificult if not impossible........does not look too good for British caravaners.

They're trying to get sales in advance of actual data from the new Astra 2E UK Spot beam - no projections of signal level have been made away from the spot so no-one knows yet how much it'll drop off. There's talk of needing 2m dishes in Spain but at this stage it's best to wait and see what actual transmissions give.

 

[otherclive]

We've probably got enough DVDs and unread books to see us through for about 10 yrs. Wifi enabled tv might be the answer!!! Or is that an iPad on a stand?

 

[RogerL]

adjustments to the elevation as in step two, would be minor,

I disagree - the variation in elevation within the UK is considerable and even wider if you include Europe.
From practical experience, it doesn't take the tripod post to be much out of vertical to give no signal at all.
However, on elevation, there are differences in tolerance depending on size of dish - see David Sullivan's excellent website http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/ for more details

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

adjustments to the elevation as in step two, would be minor,

I disagree - the variation in elevation within the UK is considerable and even wider if you include Europe.
From practical experience, it doesn't take the tripod post to be much out of vertical to give no signal at all.

sorry Roger I am afraid we will have to disagree on this, for two reasons,
1. doing a quick scan of locations at random gave the following results for Astra 2,
Wick, scotland, elevation 18.3 degrees, Azimuth(mag) 148 degrees, LNB skew - 10.2 degrees.
Home (central) elevation 23 degrees, Azimuth(mag) 146 degrees, LNB skew -12.4
St Just, cornwall, elevation 24.2 degrees. Azimuth(mag) 141.9 degrees, LNB skew -17 degrees.
Paris, France, elevation 28.7, Azimuth(mag) 147.6 degrees LNB skew -13.4 degrees,
the differences in elevation and azimuth from furthest north to furthest south is 10.4 degrees and 0.4 degrees respectively,
and from furthest east, to furthest west, is 4.5 degrees and 7.7 degrees respectively,
not what you would call a considerable wide variation "well I wouldn't anyway", as most places inbetween the variation would be quite small and easily picked up via the sat finder. given that a vertical dish is about 25 degrees in Paris the dish would be elevated backwards by 3 degrees and Wick pointing downwards by 7.7 degrees again not a huge ammount, remember the cluster of satelittes is 38.000 km away,
2. while it is true a non vertical pole would alter the elevation scale on the dish, providing the dish is vertical ie 25 degrees it will still recieve a signal, next time you are walking the dog ect around your estate look at the sky dishes fitted to houses notice how many brackets are not straight as mounted to the wall. the dishes will be at the same angle but not the fixings. mine for instance (fitted by SKY leans back about 15 degrees, but I still have a 100% signal, because the dish is adjusted to the correct elevation.

 

[RogerL]

The elevation variation is at it's greatest NW to SE - Durness 17.7 to Clacton 26.0 - that's 18.3 degrees.
With an offset dish, most parts of Scotland need the dish somewhat downwards!
I'm just going by experience - get the tripod post vertical, the elevation correct and it's easy - get either of those wrong significantly and it's hard work.