Save our Badgers!

[Phillipcharnwoodforest]

Signed.
I live in a rural area with quite a few badgers, and funnily enough farms and don't know of any definatve evidence for a cull to be necsacery. Lets hope that whatever the decsion thats taken is the right one.

I'm going to send the link to my place of work if you have no objection please Dustydog.

 

[Parksy]

If you don't think it's appropriate to discuss an issue in the NON caravanning section of the forum then the simplest thing is not to take part.

Thank you DD for bringing the petition to the attention of those of us that wish to support it!!

In the interests of fairness I have to point out that Gybe has every right to take part in this discussion in order to air his point of view.
It's quite clear that there are differing and conflicting opinions regarding the proposed badger cull, and although some forum members might not support the proposal to randomly cull a great number of badgers for reasons which not everyone is convinced are sound, the supporters of the cull who use this forum must be given the opportunity via this discussion to show why they agree with DEfRA.

 

[Dustydog]

Signed.
I live in a rural area with quite a few badgers, and funnily enough farms and don't know of any definatve evidence for a cull to be necsacery. Lets hope that whatever the decsion thats taken is the right one.

I'm going to send the link to my place of work if you have no objection please Dustydog.

Phillip

It's an open public link. You don't need my OK. Well done mate

 

[SteveW77]

Steve and Gybe

Not once have I have or anyone else on here suggested or coerced any person signs the petition. Not once have we gone to the depths you have to support a view one way or the other.

Clearly you guys are ardent supporters of the cull and hopefuly sleep easy at night.

Please don't insult our inteligence with garbage from Government Civil Servants who quite frankly are not the super human gurus you seem to think.

Just look at the fiasco caused at DfT over the West Coast Main Line rail route franchise. Good job there's people like Branson to fight these oafs.
Do I smell another U TURN on the horizon

Maybe you should start your own URL "Cull The Badger"

If you consider reading newspapers and scientific journals as going to great depths, I think that says more about you than it does about me.
Just as a point of information, I have no feelings one way or the other about badgers, they could kill them all or leave them all it is a matter of complete indifference to me.

Steve W

 

[mullsy1]

There was a report in 2007 when a group spent a decade looking at the efficiency in culling badgers as a way to control their input to Bovine TB.

The Report describes the outcome of nearly ten years’ work which has provided a broad understanding of the complex issues involved in the epidemiology of TB in both cattle and badgers. The potential of badger culling for cattle TB control and the likely effectiveness of enhanced cattle based control measures have been evaluated. The ISG has concluded that, although badgers contribute significantly to the cattle disease in some parts of the country, no practicable method of badger culling can reduce the incidence of cattle TB to any meaningful extent, and several culling approaches may make matters worse (EG culling badgers in one area may encourage more rapid migration of badgers from others regions, thus increasing the speed that TB can spread). The ISG also conclude that rigidly applied control measures targeted at cattle can reverse the rising incidence of disease, and halt its geographical spread.

 

[Gybe]

Thank you Parksy for your fairness.

The link I posted names extremists, I would be rather naive to believe that extremist who have been convicted of serious crimes in the name of animal rights do not use simple avenues such as petitions to further their cause and actions. I also believe senior police officers who are not in a position to divulge all their information.
My 48 years of country living and my wifes 53 years out of her 63 years, plus her being the daughter of an agricultural worker and water bailiff must count for soemthing. We've also never camped or caravanned in a town or city

and have lived in our countryside village for thirty years in December.
The Civil Service and Civil Servants are also involved in all our lives from our births to our deaths and they can't all be bad or wrong. Some of our smartest brains and scientists have been Civil Servants and many of us wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for them, but like the rest of us they can't all be perfect or fault free.

Other subject matter on this forum is about driving and speed and the law. Many of our driving laws are based on Civil Service scientific research and guidelines from scientists at civil service road and vehicle research labs. I've read posts here stating that there is no excuse or legitimate case for breaking our driving laws. We have to accept that the civil service scientists behind our laws are right and act in are best interest, but that those involved with farming and animal welfare are all dum**** idiots according to Dusty Dogs point of view.
I'm quite fond of Badgers myself, but I also believe that the scientists are not all evil Brock haters.

 

[Dustydog]

Thankyou Steve and Gybe for your further inputs. which I do not see as adversarial but just a differing view.
Call me a cynic but I conclude there is some truth in the "Yes Minister " TV series of old!

Who does run the country???
That aside the option to sign the petirion is freely open to anyone . There hasn't been any pressure from me or anyone else for you guys to sign.
Newton's Law clearly said for every force applied there will be an equal and opposite force. So , to cull or not to cull is far from clear. On that basis I have to err on the side of caution and stand against the cull.
In many other public matters over the last two years our Government have made U Turns on their original decisions, all originally backed with "sound technical advice".

An example of why I am against the cull. We live by the River Thames near a disused railway on the Wiltshire Gloucestershire border. There's a large badger set burrowed into the old embankment. They've been there for over 40 years . Adjacent to the embankment on both sides are cattle farms. Neither have ever had TB.

 

[SteveW77]

Thankyou Steve and Gybe for your further inputs. which I do not see as adversarial but just a differing view.
Call me a cynic but I conclude there is some truth in the "Yes Minister " TV series of old!

Who does run the country???
That aside the option to sign the petirion is freely open to anyone . There hasn't been any pressure from me or anyone else for you guys to sign.
Newton's Law clearly said for every force applied there will be an equal and opposite force. So , to cull or not to cull is far from clear. On that basis I have to err on the side of caution and stand against the cull.
In many other public matters over the last two years our Government have made U Turns on their original decisions, all originally backed with "sound technical advice".

An example of why I am against the cull. We live by the River Thames near a disused railway on the Wiltshire Gloucestershire border. There's a large badger set burrowed into the old embankment. They've been there for over 40 years . Adjacent to the embankment on both sides are cattle farms. Neither have ever had TB.

I have never had malaria, despite being bitten by mosquitoes in malarial infested countries. This does ot mean that mosquitoes do not carry malaria, just that I have been lucky. Apparently so have both of the afore mentioned farms.

Steve W

 

[Dustydog]

What have insects got to do with this??? Unless they came from transylvania perhaps

 

[SteveW77]

What have insects got to do with this??? Unless they came from transylvania perhaps

As usual, people who have no logical reason for believing what they do, revert to trying to belittle people who take an opposite point of view.
The farms that you put forward as being TB free, is no proof that the local badger population does not have TB, just that so far they have been lucky not to become infected.
I really don't think I can make the point any clearer, if you are determined to be fatuous, then carry on.You are not making a very good case against culling as far as I am concerned.

Steve W

 

[Dustydog]

What have insects got to do with this??? Unless they came from transylvania perhaps

As usual, people who have no logical reason for believing what they do, revert to trying to belittle people who take an opposite point of view.
The farms that you put forward as being TB free, is no proof that the local badger population does not have TB, just that so far they have been lucky not to become infected.
I really don't think I can make the point any clearer, if you are determined to be fatuous, then carry on.You are not making a very good case against culling as far as I am concerned.

Steve W

Fatuous??

That's a bit insulting for a saturday morning.
I'd say that remark was facetious and cheap. Why do you have to lower an intelligent debate into a personal attack?

I'd say you make no constructive case at all for the cull.
If you are interested in learning the truth may I suggest you read the following and other carefully, intelligently structured explanations why the cull is flawed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mark-jones/stop-culling-badgers_b_1863860.html
You may also be interested to learn that Tewkesbury Council and The Forest of Dean Councils have unanamously banned the proposed cull in their areas. Other local Councils have the matter under consideration, pending full review of all the technical data available to them. More are expected to ban the cull.

 

[Sproket]

Signed !

The number of signatures:
Is now 147,638

 

[SteveW77]

What have insects got to do with this??? Unless they came from transylvania perhaps

As usual, people who have no logical reason for believing what they do, revert to trying to belittle people who take an opposite point of view.
The farms that you put forward as being TB free, is no proof that the local badger population does not have TB, just that so far they have been lucky not to become infected.
I really don't think I can make the point any clearer, if you are determined to be fatuous, then carry on.You are not making a very good case against culling as far as I am concerned.

Steve W

Fatuous??

That's a bit insulting for a saturday morning.
I'd say that remark was facetious and cheap. Why do you have to lower an intelligent debate into a personal attack?

I'd say you make no constructive case at all for the cull.
If you are interested in learning the truth may I suggest you read the following and other carefully, intelligently structured explanations why the cull is flawed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mark-jones/stop-culling-badgers_b_1863860.html
You may also be interested to learn that Tewkesbury Council and The Forest of Dean Councils have unanamously banned the proposed cull in their areas. Other local Councils have the matter under consideration, pending full review of all the technical data available to them. More are expected to ban the cull.

I am making no case at all, I have already stated whether there is a cull or not is of no interest to me what so ever.

I only object to unqualified people spouting rubbish as factual truth in an attempt to persuade people to their way of thinking.

As this is now descending into even more boring predicable responses , this is my final post on this issue.
You believe what you will, I will base my opinion on scientific fact, not hearsay from people with axes to grind.

Steve W

 

[Parksy]

I am making no case at all, I have already stated whether there is a cull or not is of no interest to me what so ever.

I only object to unqualified people spouting rubbish as factual truth in an attempt to persuade people to their way of thinking.

As this is now descending into even more boring predicable responses , this is my final post on this issue.
You believe what you will, I will base my opinion on scientific fact, not hearsay from people with axes to grind.

Steve W

For someone who is so disinterested in this contentious issue you seem to have had rather a lot of input to this topic Steve.
Either sign the petition or don't sign, nobody really cares either way what you do, but don't use this forum to have a row.
I'm glad to see that you have submitted your final post on this issue because any further antagonistic comments are heading for the bin.

 

[Gybe]

I'd rather there was some science involved in this TB cattle problem either way. A 'don't care' attitude surely doesn't help anybody. With the serious matter of the lives of the cattle and the Badgers and millions of pounds of cost you have to wonder what council has the right to interfere. I'm not sure that I'd put my money or any faith in tin pot local councillors or council officers over government civil servants and scientists.
Rather than all falling out, I think our differing views actually point to a case for a carefully controlled approach and sciencetific research being exactly what is needed.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all,
first of all I have to declare that I have read the posted articles on the forum, and done a bit or delving on the internet and imo the case for a badger cull has not been proven, however the arguement put forwards against the cull is not all that convincing either.
and on that basis I decided not to sign the petition, and take a neutral view.

one thing that is for sure no other option seems available or put forwards to control the population in many cases no one seems to know just how many badgers there are and more importantly how many are infected with TB,
from what I gather the problem is high incidents of bovine TB in some areas and non in other areas, the idea of the cull in these high incident areas and the pms on the bodies to discover how many of the badger population has the desease together with the statistics on future out breaks of bovine TB, in the cull areas, personally I have no problem with this exept for the fact that is not untill the badger is dead can this be determined, trapping and testing is another way but this is time consuming and costly (and we all know how the coalition views that!!).
the other problem is that it is not just badgers that carry the desease so all these would have to go as well, but the consern is about just the badgers which I find illogical,
I just wonder if the same debate would be going on if the problem was identified in otters!! probably not.
but on balance don't think there is enough conclusive information for me to decide one way or the other,
sorry,

 

[Martin24]

I'd rather there was some science involved in this TB cattle problem either way. A 'don't care' attitude surely doesn't help anybody. With the serious matter of the lives of the cattle and the Badgers and millions of pounds of cost you have to wonder what council has the right to interfere. I'm not sure that I'd put my money or any faith in tin pot local councillors or council officers over government civil servants and scientists.
Rather than all falling out, I think our differing views actually point to a case for a carefully controlled approach and sciencetific research being exactly what is needed.

Go onto BBC iplayer and listen to the repeat on the subject from this week, shouldn't take too many hours to find the right programme. At the end of the day no one knows which came first the chicken or the egg and no one knows who had bovine TB first the cow or the badger or any other animal that is carrying it!!!

 

[Sproket]

Go onto BBC iplayer and listen to the repeat on the subject from this week, shouldn't take too many hours to find the right programme. At the end of the day no one knows which came first the chicken or the egg and no one knows who had bovine TB first the cow or the badger or any other animal that is carrying it!!!

Is this the program ? It starts talking about it @ 7min 50sec into the program

 

[Martin24]

No it wasn't but I'll try and listen to that one too. It was certainly on in the car, and I wasn't out and about that early!

 

[Dustydog]

This is worth a look too.

http://youtu.be/CwhzqCZ28YU

 

[Sproket]

The government has announced it will delay a planned cull of badgers in England until next summer, after widespread protests against the scheme.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20039697

 

[Martin24]

Spendid news!! Thanks for the update, been in all day so not had the radio on in the car!

 

[Dustydog]

Fantastic news. Over 160,000 signatures in opposition.
Ok. Only a reprieve but hopefully long enough for science, compassion and common sense to find a less drastic remedy. The original concept was clearly flawed from the outset.

 

[Gafferbill]

http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2012/10/23/badger-cull/

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks Bill,
Reading between the lines some form of "maximum kill" is advocated.
At least there is the winter to prove scientifically, beyond doubt, the cull is ill-founded. Let's hope the debate between the scientists can prove right from wrong.