Searching tow cars by weight?

[stephena]

Morning All,

I am one of the unlucky few who passed there driving test after Jan 1997 meaning I am restricted to a gross train weight of 3500kg. I have a lovely light Lunar Venus (the one featured on the homepage currently) on order which has an MTPLM of just 1380kg.

We currently tow with a 2.0DCI Qashqai which has a gross vehicle weight of 2085kg giving me a total train weight of 3485kg almost perfect except for a slightly higher than perfect Kerbweight ratio of 90% (which i can live with).

I have recently been looking into upgrading the tow vehicle however and this is proving harder than i would have liked. The majority of cars i fancy are over 2120kg in weight (Mondeo, Xtrail, etc etc).

I know the easy option would be to fork out £750 and waste 3 days of my life getting my B+E but I really would like to avoid this for as long as possible, which leads me onto my question. Does anyone know of a website/resource where i can search cars by there weight? B)

Thanks

Steve

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Try here

 

[paws]

Hi Stephena,
That's a useful website that Sir WC mentions, but do be careful and make extra enquiries of the dealer as not all the stats given in the website are correct.
Regards
paws

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Steve,

Whilst I suspect you know what you meant concerning limits of your licence, you have not actually quoted it correctly, and that might lead to confusion either on your part, or for other readers who may have a similar issue.

Fundamentally Its the difference between allowed capacities and measured loaded weights.

May I give you the following explanation of capacity and weights; On the basis that 1 Litre of water has a weight of 1kg and for simplicity the theoretical buckets have no intrinsic weight, consider the following:-

Physically you have the ability to carry 10kg of water (=GTW) this could be in 1 or 2 buckets. To keep within the GTW it could be 1 bucket of 10L capacity or two buckets of 5L or even two 10L buckets but each only half filled. or any combination provided the total weight of water does not exceed 10kg. You would be compliant with the GTW,

But because of the number of collisions between all the bucket carriers the authorities decided to issue licences but as its the size of the buckets being carried that seems to be the cause of the problems they base their licences on the maximum capacities (MAM) not the actual weight that can be carried So you are now issued with a licence for 10L capacity or MAM. This now limits you to only carrying either 1 x10L bucket or any other combination where the total capacity does not exceed 10L.

You cannot carry a 5L and a half filled 10L becasue whilst the load is only 10L the capacity is 15L and thus exceeds you licence entitlement.

 

[Raywood]

My suggestion would be a Mazda 6. It has a bit more power and a the cars weight and the MTPLM of the caravan are just under 3,500 kg, except for the automatics.As the magazine says for the CX5 Mazda cars are very reliable and I have found the 6 an excellent tow car with a caravan of very similar weight.
You might also look at the Insignia although getting the exact weights for the different models is not easy.
You can have the maximum weight of the combination over the 3,500 limit as long as the actual total is less, but personally I would try to follow your idea of making sure you are under 3,500 maximum.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

You can have the maximum weight of the combination over the 3,500 limit as long as the actual total is less,

I believe this is wrong. The criteria is for plated maximums, NOT how they are loaded if less.

See the Prof's words "they base their licences on the maximum capacities (MAM) not the actual weight that can be carried".

 

[intransient1]

Hi Stephena,
It depends on what type of vehicle you want.
If you need more space but still want to use your current licence, try looking at MPV's.
I currently tow with a VW touran 1.6 diesel which can tow 1500 kg which is 100 kg more than the qashqai putting you nearer to 85%.

 

[otherclive]

Hi Stephena,
It depends on what type of vehicle you want.
If you need more space but still want to use your current licence, try looking at MPV's.
I currently tow with a VW touran 1.6 diesel which can tow 1500 kg which is 100 kg more than the qashqai putting you nearer to 85%.

But what is the GVW of the Touran? I suspect it may be too heavy to meet the Op's licence conditions which have a limit on the overall train weight whether loaded or not. Bit like French speed limits for caravans. Its not what is loaded its the "theoretical" max weight of the car and caravan combined.

 

[Hutch]

But, otherclive, how many French, Dutch or German, large cars, say BMW, Citroen C5, or big Mercs towing small caravans, keep to the 90 kph, on paeges or dual carrigeways. Very few. Anycar that has a MGTW of over 3500kg are limited to 90kph. Edit, whilst towing.

 

[Gafferbill]

.......if the OP is buying a new caravan and thinking of upgrading their tow car, then that is a sizeable financial and lifestyle commitment.
Why hold back when it comes to the driver.......spend a bit more cash and take the B+E test.......it won't be a waste of time!

 

[Anseo]

I know the easy option would be to fork out £750 and waste 3 days of my life getting my B+E B)

I was surprised at how much time and cost was involved in me gaining a full motorcycle driving license, and that was a few years back.

Frankly, I am shocked to read that getting a B+E license can cost so much, I'm likely out of touch with the reality of obtaining a B+E license, is there not a lower cost time method of securing said license?

 

[otherclive]

But, otherclive, how many French, Dutch or German, large cars, say BMW, Citroen C5, or big Mercs towing small caravans, keep to the 90 kph, on paeges or dual carrigeways. Very few. Anycar that has a MGTW of over 3500kg are limited to 90kph. Edit, whilst towing.

Yes I know what the French speed limits are, but just because some (most) seem to drive above the limits doesn't detract from my point. French police don't take ignorance, or intent, as an excuse for breaking their laws.

 

[Hutch]

Fully agree with you, Otherclive, it just seems as though they will come down quicker on the Brits, than others.
Anyway back to the original thread.

 

[ProfJohnL]

My suggestion would be a Mazda 6. It has a bit more power and a the cars weight and the MTPLM of the caravan are just under 3,500 kg, except for the automatics.As the magazine says for the CX5 Mazda cars are very reliable and I have found the 6 an excellent tow car with a caravan of very similar weight.
You might also look at the Insignia although getting the exact weights for the different models is not easy.
You can have the maximum weight of the combination over the 3,500 limit as long as the actual total is less, but personally I would try to follow your idea of making sure you are under 3,500 maximum.

Hello Ray
You are getting mixed up between the capability of the car, and the licence entitlements. In the OP's case his licence limits him to a combined MAM not exceeding 3500kg regardless of what the car is towing

 

[ProfJohnL]

I was surprised at how much time and cost was involved in me gaining a full motorcycle driving license, and that was a few years back.

Frankly, I am shocked to read that getting a B+E license can cost so much, I'm likely out of touch with the reality of obtaining a B+E license, is there not a lower cost time method of securing said license?

Hello Anseo,

The cost of the B+e test is Weekdays £115 Evenings, weekends £141 You are not obliged to take a training course before submitting to the test.

 

[Raywood]

My suggestion would be a Mazda 6. It has a bit more power and a the cars weight and the MTPLM of the caravan are just under 3,500 kg, except for the automatics.As the magazine says for the CX5 Mazda cars are very reliable and I have found the 6 an excellent tow car with a caravan of very similar weight.
You might also look at the Insignia although getting the exact weights for the different models is not easy.
You can have the maximum weight of the combination over the 3,500 limit as long as the actual total is less, but personally I would try to follow your idea of making sure you are under 3,500 maximum.

Hello Ray
You are getting mixed up between the capability of the car, and the licence entitlements. In the OP's case his licence limits him to a combined MAM not exceeding 3500kg regardless of what the car is towing

Not sure if I have written it badly or not but I think the OP was looking at a car where the max weight of the car and the MTPLM of the caravan were less than 3,500kg. In that case the Mazda fits the bill but you can tow where the maximum weight of the car and the MTPLM added together exceed 3,500kg as long as the actual weight of the two is less but not something I would recommend.
I think the problem of the B+E test is not the cost of the test but getting to it. You need to practice and have a suitable trailer for the test and the article in this months magazine covers this. Essentially you need a trailer specified in the rules and this is not a caravan, so unless you have access to this and a large area to practice you are stuck with a course with a driving school.

 

[Martin24]

I'm sure there is validity in all the answers but I think I would just bite the bullet and get the test done. Seems to me like the most practical way forward and then whole issue of the weights is sorted for good.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

but you can tow where the maximum weight of the car and the MTPLM added together exceed 3,500kg as long as the actual weight of the two is less

Please can you quote the source of this information, as both the Prof and myself are saying this is wrong?

Edit - the government website states this:
Category B - if you passed your test on or after 1 January 1997. You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg MAM with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg). You can also tow heavier trailers if the total MAM of the vehicle and trailer isn't more than 3,500kg.

ie if the trailer (eg caravan) has a MAM (MTPLM) over 750kg then the car MAM added to the trailer MAM cannot be over 3,500kg. MAM is the plated Maximum Authorised Mass, there is no mention of loading either to less than the MAM.

 

[stephena]

Thanks for this suggestion Mazda lighter than the latest insignia will definatly put into contention!

 

[stephena]

Its always been my understanding that the combined maximum train weight cannot exceed 3500kg... the police would look at the VINs and are unlikely to take me to a weigh bridge unless they thought i had overloaded car, caravan or both.

I have to say its more stubbornness on my part that I wish to avoid the B+E as I have been towing happily (within my limits) for over 10 years in both the UK and abroad and it grates on me that I have to take a test but a complete towing novice who passed his test 6 months before me has no such restrictions.

 

[ProfJohnL]

... but you can tow where the maximum weight of the car and the MTPLM added together exceed 3,500kg as long as the actual weight of the two is less ....

Ray,

The nub of this thread concerns a driver that only has a Cat B licence. The act or parliament for licence categories requires that your Cat B combined MAM for a braked trailer must not exceed 3500kg.

Your statement above is incorrect for caravan drivers as it implies that the driver with a Cat B can tow an outfit where the combined MAM exceeds 3500kg if the outfit is not fully loaded and the actual weight is less than 3500kg I repeat this view is definitely wrong.

 

[SamandRose]

According to my car's handbook the gross vehicle weight for the Passat estate is 2070kg, so with the Lunar Stephen would be within his licence restriction by 50kg. I will admit to a certain bias here, but get the 2.0 TDI (150bhp version) and it's brilliant.

Picking up on another point in this thread though - is it really correct that you can't use a caravan on the B+E test even if that's why you're getting the extra licence entitlement? I'm sorry but how stupid is that?? The only possible reason I can see for this restriction is to promote driving schools, because almost no-one will have a suitable alternative trailer of their own. Or am I just being cynical?

Oh the joys of being too old to be affected by this (I got my full licence in 1995)

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

is it really correct that you can't use a caravan on the B+E test even if that's why you're getting the extra licence entitlement? I'm sorry but how stupid is that?? The only possible reason I can see for this restriction is to promote driving schools, because almost no-one will have a suitable alternative trailer of their own. Or am I just being cynical?

The 3,500kg limit the thread was discussing is for a B only licence after the certain date. The B+E licence removes this restriction.

 

[Hutch]

The B+E test requires the trailer used , to be of a box construction,with a MAM of 1000kg, loaded to a max of 800kg, and minimum of 600kg. Roughly the same height as the tow car, and without being able to see over or through the trailer.
The car is to be of no more than 3500kg MAM. The Goverment website also defines how the load is to be loaded , either water or aggregrates.

 

[Chrisjkerr]

I passed my B+E back in July 2014 as the cars we had looked at all had MAM weights over 2.3 tonnes. This only leaves us with 1,200kg MTPLM for a van. I was researching day and night for certain engine sizes, saloons vs estate cars and must have downloaded the whole back catalogue for cars from both Audi, VW, SEAT etc...in the end, I couldn't find what I wanted, didn't want to compromise on space or weight and ended up having to take the B+E test.

I'm now in a situation whereby the neighbours want to start caravanning. I've explained the whole B category restriction from licenses 1997 to 2013 and I'm back to my old brochures looking for MAM / Max Vechicle weights on cars. Due to their budget being restricted on the caravan side to 5k, there's plenty of vans around at under 1300kg allowing them something like a Passat estate at 2050kg MAM and obviously making sure the caravan fully laden isn't heavier than the unladen weight of the car....Its a mine field!

If I was you, go and have a B+E assessment at a local driver training center and see what the instructor says you need to brush up on. I'm 33, havd bad habits whilst driving like most of us do, but you'd be amazed at how quickly you get back into feeding the wheel. The maneuvering is the hardest part I'd say and making sure you unhitch and hitch up in the correct order. I think in total, I paid almost £500 which included 5 lessons, 2 tests, I failed my first test on changing lanes at an island whilst on my independent drive, and whilst indicating and keeping observation, apparently it's dangerous, even if the lane you're in takes you down a country lane!

Anyhow, check it out as it opens up a whole host of combinations.