What are the readers comments on seasonal pitches. I have just come home from holidaying and one of the sites I was on was full of seasonal caravans. It is reaonably late on in the season and we were pitched where the majority of vans were seasonal. It wasn't too bad at the weekend there was plenty of people about but during the week the site was dead. Plenty of vans but no occupants. It was like staying in a cemetry. I uderstand the owners have to make a living but I think there should be a limit as to how many seasonal vans they are allowed to have. The site I refer to is a Caravan Club AS site. Ken
Seasonal pitches
- Thread starter kenneth_374315528
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Sites are businesses, whether commercial, club or CL. They have every right to maximise the revenue from each pitch, indeed we'd all think them fools if they didn't.
It's not difficult to research sites before booking so that there aren't any surprises.
Off-peak, I'd rather share a site with empty seasonals than have the site shut and available to no-one.
It's not difficult to research sites before booking so that there aren't any surprises.
Off-peak, I'd rather share a site with empty seasonals than have the site shut and available to no-one.
just come back from a site in brecon , which has been taken over by the caravan club. all people with seasonal pitches have been told that they will have to leave next season, some have been there twenty years , i feel sorry for them
G
Guest
I have no problem with people wishing to have seasonal pitches. What I do object to is them wishing to use CC or C&CC touring pitches for this purpose. This to me is against the principles of both Clubs which is to promote the idea of visiting new places and seeing new things in a touring carvan, tent etc.
People wishing to stay in the one place all year, or summer should use a static based site for their purposes. There they can get all the facilities they require for a non-mobile holiday.
Of course they will argue there are not sufficient places and the costs are too high but I am sorry, it is a tough world for all of us. I also blame the CC for encouraging this tactic in their desperate attempts to get revenues, the fact they are often turning away their very core members seems to escape them.
Some may feel that my view is harsh but I feel that once you lower the 'barrier' more and more claims will be made until the principle upon which you have started is completely lost. I have sympathy of course for anyone who may state that they can no longer drive as much as they could and would like to continue their use of their caravan in these circumstances. However, we all have to make changes in our choice of lifestyle as and when our circumstances change. This is a fact of life and we have to accept that. If I was a member of an Athletic's Club but then could no longer run, should I demand the Club to continue to accomodate me at the expense of younger athletes? I fully accept that as and when I get to the stage where I cannot drive safely I will give up my car/motorhome and make other arrangements. That will probably mean going to a hotel etc, and so be it.
Where there could be a compromise is for seasonal pitchers to use CL type sites. Here the owners may be attracted to a continous revenue stream, and that would at least free spaces on the regular sites.
People wishing to stay in the one place all year, or summer should use a static based site for their purposes. There they can get all the facilities they require for a non-mobile holiday.
Of course they will argue there are not sufficient places and the costs are too high but I am sorry, it is a tough world for all of us. I also blame the CC for encouraging this tactic in their desperate attempts to get revenues, the fact they are often turning away their very core members seems to escape them.
Some may feel that my view is harsh but I feel that once you lower the 'barrier' more and more claims will be made until the principle upon which you have started is completely lost. I have sympathy of course for anyone who may state that they can no longer drive as much as they could and would like to continue their use of their caravan in these circumstances. However, we all have to make changes in our choice of lifestyle as and when our circumstances change. This is a fact of life and we have to accept that. If I was a member of an Athletic's Club but then could no longer run, should I demand the Club to continue to accomodate me at the expense of younger athletes? I fully accept that as and when I get to the stage where I cannot drive safely I will give up my car/motorhome and make other arrangements. That will probably mean going to a hotel etc, and so be it.
Where there could be a compromise is for seasonal pitchers to use CL type sites. Here the owners may be attracted to a continous revenue stream, and that would at least free spaces on the regular sites.
SL, I totally agree with you. The vans we use are called "TOURERS" That means they are for "TOURING", not being stuck on one pitch, taking up a pitch that a genuine "tourer" could use. If you want to stay in one place, buy a bl**dy house!! Rant over. As you can see, I feel quite strongly about this.
Scotch Lad & Emmerson - if the CC got rid of seasonal caravans, they'd lose a lot of revenue which would mean putting up the prices for real tourers - some sites would have to close without revenue from seasonals - that's not what I want.
If i'm correct the orig post refered to CC Associated Site. Although not familiar with these I imagine they are privately run sites allowing CC club members reduced rates or similar.
If that's the case then CC members are not really being hard done by if the private site owner has allocated space to Season pitches.
I agree though that it would be useful info that the CC club could (should) provide, E.G. 50% seasonal so that you can make a judgment as to weather you want to stay there.
It's not very easy when you book a commercial site as I don't suppose they will let you know the % seasonal.
I don't find seasonal use a problem, one of my favorite commercial sites in Cornwall has increased it's seasonal pitches. The pitches are maintained in good order so that they don't get to look like a site for 'those we must not mention' (nomadic road builders and tree surgens who drive white vans and who's wifes sell heather!)
I can see the attraction of wizzing off for a couple of days in a van on a seasonal pitch in a nice location using my 60mpg small car and no towing.
A touring van on a seasonal pitch can always be taken away for a few days/weeks to 'TOUR' if required.
From what I've calculated previously it costs in as well:-
Less fuel no towing.
Less storage charges at home.
Often includes winter storage.
Let friends use if for a small charge.(Not always in the rules).
If that's the case then CC members are not really being hard done by if the private site owner has allocated space to Season pitches.
I agree though that it would be useful info that the CC club could (should) provide, E.G. 50% seasonal so that you can make a judgment as to weather you want to stay there.
It's not very easy when you book a commercial site as I don't suppose they will let you know the % seasonal.
I don't find seasonal use a problem, one of my favorite commercial sites in Cornwall has increased it's seasonal pitches. The pitches are maintained in good order so that they don't get to look like a site for 'those we must not mention' (nomadic road builders and tree surgens who drive white vans and who's wifes sell heather!)
I can see the attraction of wizzing off for a couple of days in a van on a seasonal pitch in a nice location using my 60mpg small car and no towing.
A touring van on a seasonal pitch can always be taken away for a few days/weeks to 'TOUR' if required.
From what I've calculated previously it costs in as well:-
Less fuel no towing.
Less storage charges at home.
Often includes winter storage.
Let friends use if for a small charge.(Not always in the rules).
I agree with Scotch Lad and Emmo it seems to be a growing trend as just about every site you go on isloaded down with empty vans many looking tatty because of grass growing around them or dirty vans and faded awnings.I have no problem with the system where the site stores the vans and puts them on a pitch when the owner wants to use it.This frees up pitches makes the site look better and still gives the site an income from storage and pitching the vans.
Sorry to upset the status quo on this topic but I have just booked a seasonal pitch at Widend in Paignton. It is a commercial run site and has all the right boxes ticked for my wife and self. We love the area and the site is beautiful, spotless and friendly owners/site workers. There are many pitches on the site for tourers so it is not that the site would be like a ghost town. I believe that all registered touring sites have to keep a certain number of pitches free for touring vans in order to have their licence renwed from year to year.
As far as CC and C&CC sites are concerned we have never used them although we are members of both clubs. What we have seen of them they are off the beacon track down narrow roads/awkward access and nothing there to offer for us. We do not like "hi-de-hi" sites but like a little bit of life around us and Widend offers this to us.
As far as CC and C&CC sites are concerned we have never used them although we are members of both clubs. What we have seen of them they are off the beacon track down narrow roads/awkward access and nothing there to offer for us. We do not like "hi-de-hi" sites but like a little bit of life around us and Widend offers this to us.
Emmerson - you certainly have a thing about seasonals don't you? I don't suppose that you own an off-road vehicle but never take it off-road do you? (Not that you'd admit it anyway!). has it ever crossed your tiny, narrow mind that some older people don't want to have to keep towing and siting their van and as much as they would like to, can't afford to buy a, quote: "bl**dy house"?SL, I totally agree with you. The vans we use are called "TOURERS" That means they are for "TOURING", not being stuck on one pitch, taking up a pitch that a genuine "tourer" could use. If you want to stay in one place, buy a bl**dy house!! Rant over. As you can see, I feel quite strongly about this.
You tour with yours if you wish and I'll do what I like with mine. Now go and have a go at the off-roaders who don't!
G
Guest
Colin Please go and enjoy your pitch with the blessings of us all. I for one am in full support of you. What I did object to was either, or both of the 2 main Clubs using their facilities in this way. A commercial site can do whatever it likes as it only makes money from site fees, not through membership fees as well.
Emmerson - you certainly have a thing about seasonals don't you? I don't suppose that you own an off-road vehicle but never take it off-road do you? (Not that you'd admit it anyway!). has it ever crossed your tiny, narrow mind that some older people don't want to have to keep towing and siting their van and as much as they would like to, can't afford to buy a, quote: "bl**dy house"?
You tour with yours if you wish and I'll do what I like with mine. Now go and have a go at the off-roaders who don't!
You tour with yours if you wish and I'll do what I like with mine. Now go and have a go at the off-roaders who don't!
Again I am going to upset certain correspondants to this topic as I have a 4x4 "off road" vehicle. I bought it prior to taking semi retirement as a building surveyor. Although it now very rarely goes off road it is often used for towing a 1 ton trailer with concrete mixers, etc. Why do I still use it you might well ask? The reason I keep it is for towing the caravan/trailer but more important as a R reg. 1998 Daihatsu Fourtrack I would get virtually next to nothing for it if I sold it and as it is going so well I might just as well use it and run it into the ground - even around town I am achieving over 30 mpg. It is regularly serviced and passes the M.O.T. with very little attention required to it.
hi all
It really annoys me when some think they have the right to ridicule or pass comment on how others choose to use their own vans this topic is one of these cases if you want to tour round do so, if you want to plonk it on a seasonal pitch fine its your van leave it there. so what if the site looks like a ghost town during the week the atertnative would be a completely empty one whats the difference none, exept the the site is recieving revenue it would not have got empty.
so it spoils someones choice of pitch when they turn up out of the blue, tough. go to another site. As people continually say on this forum "it's my pitch keep off" if someone has paid for it up front to keep it there all year thats fine by me.
personally I prefer to tour round and use different sites even if we go to the same area were we have allready been it makes the same place seem different somehow but that is our choice.
there may come a time when we want to leave it somewhere that will also be our choice and if someone does not like it,
well they can just lump it
colin
It really annoys me when some think they have the right to ridicule or pass comment on how others choose to use their own vans this topic is one of these cases if you want to tour round do so, if you want to plonk it on a seasonal pitch fine its your van leave it there. so what if the site looks like a ghost town during the week the atertnative would be a completely empty one whats the difference none, exept the the site is recieving revenue it would not have got empty.
so it spoils someones choice of pitch when they turn up out of the blue, tough. go to another site. As people continually say on this forum "it's my pitch keep off" if someone has paid for it up front to keep it there all year thats fine by me.
personally I prefer to tour round and use different sites even if we go to the same area were we have allready been it makes the same place seem different somehow but that is our choice.
there may come a time when we want to leave it somewhere that will also be our choice and if someone does not like it,
well they can just lump it
colin
G
Guest
Colin-Yorkshire,
I think you are being a little unfair in your conclusions. I do not see anybody ridiculing others, but as this is a discussion Forum anyone has the right to raise a subject for that purpose. Opinions of all tones will be brought out and we all have the right to respond, or ignore. Your opinion and comments are equally as valid as others.
Personally I agree with your point regarding someone paying 'upfront' However, where I would disagree is that the upfront payment is at a discount to the usual nightly fees. If someone paid 365 days of the full rate per night, then they are entitled to keep a van there for the whole year. However, as a compromise I feel I would prefer the option raised by another Forum member where the van may be 'stored' at the site and brought out as and when requested. In this case the vans can be parked close together and are not, as some have stated, 'blighting the landscape' with long grass etc and general untidyness. Also, even though you disagree, part of the camping life is to meet other people and in a 'ghost town' environment that is a bit more difficult and certainly not enjoyable.
The other point that some are making is that both the CC and the C&CC are Clubs with members, and therefore the members have rights, rather than just be customers, which is the case in a commercial enterprise. I do agree that these 'rights' do not often seem to have much influence with the hierarchies of both Clubs, but that is life. At least we still can raise our objections at AGM's.
At the end of the day I, and I suspect others, are not trying to spoil anyone's enjoyment but merely to try and keep things in proportion. If we have a situation where sites will have a percentage of land covered by permanent cabins, long term pitched vans and whatever else comes to mnd, then the availability of normal pitches, which is already becoming stretched, will be worse.
I think you are being a little unfair in your conclusions. I do not see anybody ridiculing others, but as this is a discussion Forum anyone has the right to raise a subject for that purpose. Opinions of all tones will be brought out and we all have the right to respond, or ignore. Your opinion and comments are equally as valid as others.
Personally I agree with your point regarding someone paying 'upfront' However, where I would disagree is that the upfront payment is at a discount to the usual nightly fees. If someone paid 365 days of the full rate per night, then they are entitled to keep a van there for the whole year. However, as a compromise I feel I would prefer the option raised by another Forum member where the van may be 'stored' at the site and brought out as and when requested. In this case the vans can be parked close together and are not, as some have stated, 'blighting the landscape' with long grass etc and general untidyness. Also, even though you disagree, part of the camping life is to meet other people and in a 'ghost town' environment that is a bit more difficult and certainly not enjoyable.
The other point that some are making is that both the CC and the C&CC are Clubs with members, and therefore the members have rights, rather than just be customers, which is the case in a commercial enterprise. I do agree that these 'rights' do not often seem to have much influence with the hierarchies of both Clubs, but that is life. At least we still can raise our objections at AGM's.
At the end of the day I, and I suspect others, are not trying to spoil anyone's enjoyment but merely to try and keep things in proportion. If we have a situation where sites will have a percentage of land covered by permanent cabins, long term pitched vans and whatever else comes to mnd, then the availability of normal pitches, which is already becoming stretched, will be worse.
CC members don't all wish to tour - some wish to leave their van on a seasonal pitch for use at weekends and perhaps tow off for holiday mid-season. These members have rights as well.
To provide a storage area would mean reducing the overall number of pitches on a site, to the detriment of all of us.
Seasonal pitches do get a discount on the nightly fee, like a volume discount. At CC sites where the demand for touring pitches is high, there are no seasonals as that would reduce the site income.
The CC only allows seasonals at under-utilised sites - there is substantial financial benefit to the club, and therefore it's members, in this arrangement.
I don't understand where Scotch Lad and Emmerson are coming from - they want seasonals removed so that they can have empty pitches next to them and pay inevitably higher pitch fees into the bargain.
To provide a storage area would mean reducing the overall number of pitches on a site, to the detriment of all of us.
Seasonal pitches do get a discount on the nightly fee, like a volume discount. At CC sites where the demand for touring pitches is high, there are no seasonals as that would reduce the site income.
The CC only allows seasonals at under-utilised sites - there is substantial financial benefit to the club, and therefore it's members, in this arrangement.
I don't understand where Scotch Lad and Emmerson are coming from - they want seasonals removed so that they can have empty pitches next to them and pay inevitably higher pitch fees into the bargain.
G
Guest
Roger,
I cannot speak for Emmerson but in my case i am viewing this as 'the thin edge of the wedge'. Once a certain quota of pitches are 'allocated' as seasonal then there is no going back, and if there was, as seems likely, increased demand for pitches everywhere we will all suffer. I would not enjoy any situation where if I wished to visit a certain location, then a pre booking for this amount of time would be necessary.
I disagree regarding the comment on storage spaces. Many sites offer this facility at the moment and the area required to store even 30 vans is significantly less than that for 30 pitches.
I also question the validity of the volume discount. If a vanner books a seasonal pitch for 3 months and someone else books 90 days on separate sites, where is the difference? Surely the 90 days at full rates are more attractive? Plus the person on 90 days will be there every day and spending money either on site, or locally. I think there has been enough discussion in the Press on the value, or otherwise of 2nd home owners in country areas. To my mind this is a similar situation. Of course, if the seasonal pitcher were to spend every day on the site then all to the good, but this is impossible due to the 21 day Rule.
fully accept we all have rights. But then again we ALL have rights. I also agree we can never please everone all of the time.
I cannot speak for Emmerson but in my case i am viewing this as 'the thin edge of the wedge'. Once a certain quota of pitches are 'allocated' as seasonal then there is no going back, and if there was, as seems likely, increased demand for pitches everywhere we will all suffer. I would not enjoy any situation where if I wished to visit a certain location, then a pre booking for this amount of time would be necessary.
I disagree regarding the comment on storage spaces. Many sites offer this facility at the moment and the area required to store even 30 vans is significantly less than that for 30 pitches.
I also question the validity of the volume discount. If a vanner books a seasonal pitch for 3 months and someone else books 90 days on separate sites, where is the difference? Surely the 90 days at full rates are more attractive? Plus the person on 90 days will be there every day and spending money either on site, or locally. I think there has been enough discussion in the Press on the value, or otherwise of 2nd home owners in country areas. To my mind this is a similar situation. Of course, if the seasonal pitcher were to spend every day on the site then all to the good, but this is impossible due to the 21 day Rule.
fully accept we all have rights. But then again we ALL have rights. I also agree we can never please everone all of the time.
Scotch Lad - surely the fact that CC only permits seasonals at under-utilised sites is the evidence you need that if, and when, demand increases for touring pitches at these under-utilised sites then the number of seasonals will be reduced.
All the CC is doing is using pitches that would be otherwise un-used.
Volume discount is normal in many businesses, there are some caravan sites that charge a higher rate for short stays so why shouldn't seasonals be offered a discount for a season-long contract.
I imagine that CC would love to have sites full all year with tourers paying full price - but where that doesn't happen then reduced income from seasonals benefits us all.
All the CC is doing is using pitches that would be otherwise un-used.
Volume discount is normal in many businesses, there are some caravan sites that charge a higher rate for short stays so why shouldn't seasonals be offered a discount for a season-long contract.
I imagine that CC would love to have sites full all year with tourers paying full price - but where that doesn't happen then reduced income from seasonals benefits us all.
G
Guest
Looking at the list of available sites I would not agree that they are all in the underutilised category. Some have had regular 'full up' signs this year.
Just taking one at random the fee is
Just taking one at random the fee is
Different levels of demand during the year is something CC has lots of experience of. They make decisions on an annual basis - so no they don't change their policy mid-year.
Given my views on CC I find it difficult to believe I'm defending their policies but in this case I clearly need to.
Caravanners come in all types - some, like me, want quiet non-facility sites with low fees - others want stereotyped full facility sites at medium prices - still more want every extra going and are prepared to pay for it. Some want to caravan just at weekends, others want to spend many weeks a year on site.
I think CC handles the opposing demands reasonably well. There's no place for those who want all of us to conform to their own idea of caravanning.
Given my views on CC I find it difficult to believe I'm defending their policies but in this case I clearly need to.
Caravanners come in all types - some, like me, want quiet non-facility sites with low fees - others want stereotyped full facility sites at medium prices - still more want every extra going and are prepared to pay for it. Some want to caravan just at weekends, others want to spend many weeks a year on site.
I think CC handles the opposing demands reasonably well. There's no place for those who want all of us to conform to their own idea of caravanning.
Looking at the list of available sites I would not agree that they are all in the underutilised category. Some have had regular 'full up' signs this year.
Just taking one at random the fee is
G
Guest
Nobody is suggesting we should all follow a similar pattern. Of course we all have different ideas of what we want in the hobby, but at the end of the day we all, at least in this Forum, purchase a caravan that is designed to be moved regularly. Otherwise as Cheryl comments, we would buy a static.
I have actually never looked at the costs until this discussion arose but seeing what they are charging I can fully understand why people are jumping at them. It bears a degree of comparison to the costs of my storing my van in a dedicated CASSOA site and here I would be able to use the van to stay inany time I liked, have electricity thrown in and all the other gizmos.
However, where we can agree is that the CC does try to appease all comers, although I do sometimes feel teh decisions made are not necessarily supported by the mmajority of members.
I have actually never looked at the costs until this discussion arose but seeing what they are charging I can fully understand why people are jumping at them. It bears a degree of comparison to the costs of my storing my van in a dedicated CASSOA site and here I would be able to use the van to stay inany time I liked, have electricity thrown in and all the other gizmos.
However, where we can agree is that the CC does try to appease all comers, although I do sometimes feel teh decisions made are not necessarily supported by the mmajority of members.
I've read all the comments so far and would just like to make these observations as a member of both cc and c&cc.
Commercial sites do whatever they want. However club sites should do whatever the members want. I dont remember being asked if c&cc Club Members wanted Seasonal pitches,Holiday homes,etc etc. I think that both organisations are no longer Clubs, they are simply businesses.
I thionk both clubs have lost their way in what they were founded for ,the Touring caravanner and Camper.
Now that c&cc have taken over Forestry Commision Campsites, one I know in particular Thetford Forest, out of 150 or so pitches only about 10 with electric were not taken up by Seasonal Pitches.
This has not changed so I don't go there any more.
Both Clubs rant on about how big they are and how succesful they are.
To me big does not mean that they are serving their members needs .
Commercial sites do whatever they want. However club sites should do whatever the members want. I dont remember being asked if c&cc Club Members wanted Seasonal pitches,Holiday homes,etc etc. I think that both organisations are no longer Clubs, they are simply businesses.
I thionk both clubs have lost their way in what they were founded for ,the Touring caravanner and Camper.
Now that c&cc have taken over Forestry Commision Campsites, one I know in particular Thetford Forest, out of 150 or so pitches only about 10 with electric were not taken up by Seasonal Pitches.
This has not changed so I don't go there any more.
Both Clubs rant on about how big they are and how succesful they are.
To me big does not mean that they are serving their members needs .
So John, 140 caravanners on the Thetford site had all got the wrong idea about the concept of caravanning, and only 10 do it the way the busy-bodies think they should??? Interesting that...
So you do not agree then Colinn, that only 10 out of 140 pitches is somewhat disproportionate to those tourers who do wish to come onto this site?
I would guess that the 10 remaining pitches are in the shade or the less appealing areas on the site, which is generally the case.
Surely a cap on the percentage of seasonal pitches to touring pitches so the sites do not become no-go areas to people who do wish to tour. What do the ccc members think of this? i belong to the cc so I would really like to know their thouhgts on the site which is in their club?
I would guess that the 10 remaining pitches are in the shade or the less appealing areas on the site, which is generally the case.
Surely a cap on the percentage of seasonal pitches to touring pitches so the sites do not become no-go areas to people who do wish to tour. What do the ccc members think of this? i belong to the cc so I would really like to know their thouhgts on the site which is in their club?
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