Selecting a towcar

[RayS]

Is anyone aware of a website with a search facility, such that you can enter the "desirables" for a new towcar e.g. weight, torque, automatic etc. and which will then produce a short list for you ?

This would save considerable searching through individual makers websites, which seem to be getting more and more towards fancy pictures taking ages to load, and where you really have to look hard for the technical information.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

www.whattowcar.com

click outfit match

 

[rob_jax]

Hi Ray,

A good idea, it shouldn't take too much effort to compile a list (or database) for new cars (it's previous models that will be a bit more difficult), then search and pinpoint candidates.

Whattowcar does a good job (within the accuracy of the data) of matching a car to a caravan, but doesn't address the issue of "what cars are available or suitable to tow this caravan".

I'll suggest this to Bert Wijnen - one of the guys that built that site.

Robert

 

[RogerL]

"WhatCar" magazine provides most of the info you need, but only on paper. Engine data, general equipment level and detailed running costs are all present for each version of a model but kerbweight and towing limit are general across a range.

For new cars, it's not too dificult to draw up a short list based on budget and type of vehicle and then get manufacturers brochures downloaded from the net.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Rob Jax

It does if you click on "outfit match"

Try it

 

[rob_jax]

Hi Garry,

Thank you - that's great - and I also don't need to speak with Bert either.

Robert

 

[354]

Make a list of your requirements then start doing the research to find the vehicle that fits your needs. Whilst a vehicle may look good on paper it may not be the same to drive. For me the fun is searching and test driving various models.

Web sites tend to be compiled by personal preferences,

 

[JeremyClarksson]

"Web sites tend to be compiled by personal preferences"

You must be right they did not come up with my preffered towcar - a Humvee (Hummer H1) - How silly!

I suppose I will have to stick with the Scorpion now.

 

[Lutz]

A local caravanning magazine recently published a list of towcars suitable for towing caravans from 1000 to 1800kg, in steps of 100kg. Each car was given a one to five star rating which also took into account engine power and torque characteristics but not automatic transmission variants (unless the model is available only as an automatic). The vehicle groups covered were as follows:

August issue: lower middle class segment

September issue: family class saloons/estates

October issue: MPV's

November issue: large saloons/estates

December issue: 4x4's

Each issue covers between about 150 and 200 models, including various engine combinations. Only legal combinations are listed but some are over 85% weight ratio (none over 100%, though).

If anyone is interested in excerpts from the data, I'd be willing to send details if you drop me a line.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

In these days of legislation it amazes me that there is no "official" govt website of kerb weights /towing limits.

 

[Lutz]

Any "official" website would have to cover all vehicles on the market and for it to be official, it would have to be 100% accurate, i.e. all kerbweights would have to be documented. However, kerbweights are specific to each and every vehicle which would then have to be weighed and recorded against its own respective chassis number in such a database. The effort required to create such a website would be enormous and besides, it would be of limited help in the case of when one hasn't bought the car yet and consequently the chassis number is unknown.

Towing limits are easier to find as the are more general, i.e. they apply to a limited range of models, irrespective of their kerbweight.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Sorry Lutz don't agree but then its a matter of opinion and we can't all agree all the time.

Merry Christmas

 

[Lutz]

I would like to know why you can't agree, John. Experience has shown that the kerbweights of two cars with ostensibly the same specification can differ by as much as 200kg. Just as an example, the kerbweights published by the manufacturers in their brochures never take the weight of the towbar into account and they alone can weigh up to 40kg (including all bracketry and reinforcements) on some cars which, of course, has a significant effect on the kerbweight.

 

[RogerL]

There's no such thing as an official kerbweight. There are two definitions for a start!

The UK Construction & Use Regulations define it as with full tanks but without drver. EC Directives define it with driver but with fuel tank 90% full. Most, but not all manufacturers use the EC Directive version in their sales brochures but even then not all manufacturers give the weight for individual model variation.

Although section 12.1 of the vehicle's EC Certificate of Conformity gives the EC Directive version and includes any factory-fit options, that weight won't include any dealer-fit or aftermarket options.

This can give variations just due to factory-fit towbar or after-market towbar.

The only accurate way to establish kerbweight is on a weighbridge after fitting "permanent" accessories. Even so, most public weighbridges are only accurate to 20kg.

 

[Lutz]

Exactly, as Roger says, kerbweight is a very grey area and the only way of determining it accurately is to weigh the actual car. All published data is, at best, a guideline only.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Hi Lutz I don't agree that its not possible to have a criteria for kerbweight that is universal in these days of EEC regs and computer data bases.

If a weight was given ex works as many manufacturers do in their brochures and all manufacturers were singing from the same hymn sheet then it should be possible to have such a data base.

Common sense dictates that if you screw something on after production then weight will vary fron anything stated as ex works by the weight of what you have screwed on !

I do agree with the present system of varying norms that it would need some changes.

The number of times kerb weight comes up on this website alone would indicate a need for easier access to reliable data.

As it is recourse to magazines for data is not the most reliable source.

I was fortunate that on another website someone weighed an identical model to my car so my trip to the weighbridge will not be needed.

Regards and always a pleasure to discuss things although we may may have to agree to disagree to avoid dragging it out.

I may ask for a new anorak for Christmas

 

[RogerL]

A manufacturers' database of "ex-works" weights would have to be done by VIN number due to manufacturing variations in apparently identical models.

 

[Lutz]

As you say, John, if you screw something on after production you change the kerbweight. The manufacturing variations that Roger refers to can account for about 15kg in sheet metal and paint coating thickness variations alone and even that would only apply to identical specifications, which is rare. You mention that somebody weighed an identical model to yours and you therefore saved yourself a trip to a weighbridge. If you really went into all the details it's an odds on chance that the two cars weren't absolutely identical. You'd probably be quite surprised at the result if you did actually weigh your car.

Whenever the law refers to kerbweight (such as category B driving licences which are limited to towing no more than the kerbweight of the towcar) then this means the actual kerbweight, not the ex-works kerbweight. It therefore includes all the bolt-on goodies which were added after the car left the factory.

In order to put our differences aside, one should add, however, that apart from the legal aspect above, there is no real need to know the kerbweight to an accuracy of anything closer than, say

 

[MikeP]

And we've got to remember that, as caravanners, we are in a tiny minority of vehicle users. Quite a few caravanners - I am a good example - don't need to worry about accurate kerbweight as my ratio is somewhere around 60%.

So whilst a highly accurate database might be desirable, in practice it might be required by only a tiny percentage of car owners. Does anyone know enough to hazard a guess at the likely percentage?

 

[Lutz]

The only people who really must know the kerbweight of their car are those who passed their driving test for a Category B licence after the 1st January 1997 and plan to tow a caravan with an MTPLM close to that figure. For everyone else, it's just for peace of mind.

 

[RogerL]

The only people who really must know the kerbweight of their car are those who passed their driving test for a Category B licence after the 1st January 1997 and plan to tow a caravan with an MTPLM close to that figure. For everyone else, it's just for peace of mind.

If they've passed B+E test, they don't need to worry so much.

 

[RayS]

Hi guys, looks as if I started something here !

My original intention was a seach engine into which i could imput the data (Have yet to try the towcar one) which would mean I would input a car weight with which I felt comfortable (i.e. I would choose the outfit ratio, and with a good seach engine, see what other options I could get by keeping the main parameters and simply changing the weight to give say 90% ration rather than say 70%.

Another parameter to put in would be maximum weight on ball - some quite hefty vehicles have very modest figures, and it I can get a good (high) noseweight figure then i shall be a bit less bothered about the overall ratio.

Thanks again for all the input; I'll certainly try the various suggestions.

 

[Lutz]

As kerbweight has such little legal significance, there is hardly any incentive for a database to be created "officially" so I'm afraid one will probably have to live with the situation as it is at the moment.

Although a high noseweight is always beneficial I wouldn't have thought that this is a make-or-break criterion in any decision making process, so here too, it is unlikely that one would find anyone would be willing to take on the task of putting a database of noseweights together.