Should the caravan industry be better regulated?

[Surfer]

In my humble opinion I think the caravan industry needs regulating from top to bottom, that is from manufacturing to dealership, caravan parks and also the people that tow caravans.

Why can't warranties be transfered? Why do we have very little recourse on PDIs? Why do some sites cram in some many caravans that they are on top of one another? What about mismatched outfits to name a few?

 

[sparkes]

Ian

Very interesting comment. Bailey already allow transfer of warrenty but this is not the norm and should be. It does not matter who owns the van, if it says 3yrs then it should be 3 yrs.

As for PDI's. Some dealers are very good at this and some are not. The dealer I use will go a long way to ensure aftersales care as a large proportion of their business is from people returning after using them before. If a site crams in lots of vans then do not use it or demand a refund!

Now, as for mismatched outfits, I have to agree. Somthing needs to be done about this. But, as long as it is legal, who are we to complain!

 

[Lutz]

Most of the issues raised would regulate themselves if only the customers applied more pressure on the industry (both manufacturers and campsites, etc.) by avoiding those that don't offer the expected degree of service.

I don't know what you mean by mismatched outfits, though. Do you mean outfits that are not within the limits specified by the car and caravan manufacturers? If so, they could be easily regulated by spot checks.

 

[Surfer]

I was generalising a bit. I am refering to outfits where the car is hardly powerful enough to tow the caravan. The regulations are sort of a grey area when it comes to noseweights etc.

Caravan sites need better regulation especially those that try and pack them in like sardines. In the event of a fire they may have sever problems moving outfits.

Where do you think better regulation is required?

 

[Lutz]

The regulations regarding noseweight are pretty clear to me. The limit is always the lower of the two figures specified for car and caravan, respectively, and it's best to stay as close as possible below that limit.

As far as power is concerned, I get the feeling that some people are just too lazy or too scared to change down a gear or two and therefore prefer to lumber along unnecessarily in a high gear. If you never get into top gear when towing, so what?

I've heard of complaints by UK caravanners that sites on the Continent, in particular, can often be rather cramped but I can't recall when a fire was last reported, so I was wondering how high the risk actually is.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ian,

You certainly cover the whole issue, but what aspects of manufactures/dealers sites and drivers do you think should be regulated? Regulation of all types limits choice. and of course the danger there is that what suits one person is unsuitable to another.

Of the points you do raise, No manufacture is obliged offer any warranty. Your legal rights are irevocably lodged with the seller (except in the case of a private sale). Dealers are not obliged to PDI a caravan - though it is there chance to claim from the manufacture who sold it to them, and they are obliged to ensure goods sold are of a merchantable quality and fit for purpose.

Camp sites are regulated by planning and health and safety law.

And we do have regulation on towing. A mismatched outfit by definition means it fails to meet the exsisting regulations as it is the drivers responsibility to ensure that the outfit is loaded correctly and is in a fully roadworthy condition before it is used on the highways.

The problem here is not the regulation but the education/training of drivers and where that fails detection and enforcement.

As Lutz suggests perhapse we should vote with our cash and only spend it where we get what we want, and complain (which is our right) when we dont.

 

[Surfer]

John L your remark regarding a PDI is out of line in the nicest possible way as when you collect a new caravan you are charged approximately

 

[Lutz]

Ian, nobody mentioned anything about an 80% rule regarding noseweights. Where did you get that figure from and what does it relate to? 80% of what?

I think my previous respone on the subject still stands.

 

[tj_4]

We should be regulated by having an MOT on the van & all trailors. This would get some of the dangerous rubbish off the road. They give the rest of us a bad name.

Steve

 

[mcghee]

Regulation scares me. "Regulation" usually translates to "license for government body to print money". You need only to look at the gas industry to see what I'm talking about. With suitable regulation the cost of caravanning could double, and the problems we keep hearing of will not cease. As for caravans which are clapped out: we already have the laws required to remove them from the roads, they just aren't enforced.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ian,

I stand by my statements, and I will add comment here to hopefully clarify further.

As far as I am aware, there is no legislation that states that a seller must carryout a PDI on a caravan or any other product.. It follows therefore that a PDI is a service that the seller is offering, and if the offer is accepted they are contracted to do it. If they invoice for it and don't do it, that would be fraud.

PDI's

Who benefits from the PDI? If the caravan manufacture produced and delivered a quality product then a PDI would be unnecessary. So it is a crafty way to get the customer to pay for manufactures inadequacies. It is a very expensive way of trying to manage product quality - it is much better to do right first time. We should also be asking why does the customer have to pay for it?

Warranties.

I suspect you may have made the same basic mistake that many customers make, that is to confuse the the distinction between the customers legal rights under UK legislation, and the gift that is sometimes made of the manufactures warranty. (though in practice the selling price is lifted to cover faults and repairs so it is not actually free) In addition the extended warranties that are sold, are not guarantees but an insurance policy, and many studies by consumer organisations suggest that they are over priced, and are very lucrative for the manufacture and insurance companies.

All traders/sellers/dealers are obliged under the consumer rights acts, to ensure that the product they sell is fit for purpose, and of merchantable quality. If a product fails in any of those regards then the customer has an inalienable right to satisfaction against the seller. Only the seller and customer are legally obliged in this remedy. The manufacture has no jurisdiction in this area unless they are the seller.

Manufactures warranties are a gift from the manufacture, and they can define and limit who is the beneficiary. They rely on the manufacture having established contractual arrangements with a network of dealers/traders/sellers who agree to undertake warranty work on the manufactures products. The dealers may agree to undertake work on caravan not belonging to one of their own customers, subject to the terms of the contract with the manufacture. This is the process you describe. However the customer can insist on their legal rights provided they bought the van from that dealer.

If a customer had evidence that their complaint was being deliberately held back by their supplier pending the manufactures input, then they would have a possible case of breach of contract against the seller.

100% 80% 85% 7% 10% figures?

Some drivers are limited to towing a trailer that does not exceed the MAM of the car effectively a 100% figure, but apart from that it is my understanding that are no statutory regulations that define a required % of nose weight, or mass ratios between the tug and the trailer. The regulations do require that the driver ensures the vehicle (and trailer) is in a road worth condition, and that includes that none of the manufactures stipulated limits for load and masses are exceeded.

If any limit is exceeded, then the outfit is not in a legally road worth condition. Equally if an outfit is uncontrollable (unstable) it is automatically Unsafe and therefore illegal.

Notwithstanding the above, many of the suggested % guidelines actually make good sense, but it is important to realise that simply keeping to a specific ratio or limit does not ensure a safe outfit. Other important factors must also be satisfied to maximise the potential safety margins such as balanced loading, tyres etc.

Site densities

I do not know if there any national regulations that define the maximum density and or minimum distance between caravans, but such issues should have been specified on the planning proposal for the business and submitted to the local planning office. Again I am aware there are certain dimensional standards suggested by the Caravan Organisations, but these are only guidelines.

So most areas of caravaning are subject to regulations or controls of some type, but in the wider context of trailers as a genre. It would be difficult for the legislators to enact specific regulations for Caravans, as defining what constitutes a caravan and to differentiate them form from other types of trailers would be problematical.

I still think that the relevant controls are there, but there is widespread ignorance of the detail of the legislation, not only by caravanners but by enforcement authorities and other towers.

 

[dragon32a]

What makes you think a "MOT" will work then? It doesnt work for cars let alone caravans. The govenment will use the idea of a caravan Mot as a licence to print money and the only people who will gain will be the very caravan dealers that your complaining about. If you then put caravans off the road, site fees,insurance and new van cost will rise. Stop trying to put the caravan world to rights. Your playing straight into the hands of the people who want to put us all off the road.

Don