But the missing fact , is with a direct connection supply, the risk of a pipe failing is very significantly increased. This is simply because it could be subjected to pressure above the maximum limit of the system, something the submersible caravan pump can't do.
Mel mentioned the solution to your problem early in this thread.......... not cheap though.
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Just how many after-market direct systems use full mains pressure - rather than using a pressure regulator? All the ones I've seen include the regulator, in which case your warning is irrelevant.
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look on the bright side, it was just a aquaroll full of water, if it was direct feed it would have been worse.
It is not at all irrelevant in that the basic regulators are reducer valves, without incorporating a pressure relief facility.
In the static flow situation, the reducer has to perfectly seal off the supply pressure, or the minutest weeping across the seal will inevitable lead to an increase in the downstream system pressure.
This is recognised in applications were the consequences are not tolerable and the reducer is paired with a relief valve.
In our application where we feed our vans with a portable hose the risks of contamination happening and that flowing on to contaminate and compromise the reducer's seal, are IMO high. That coupled to the high probability that a static pressure of the utilities supply being higher than the design pressure of the van's water system componentry, certainly make me totally unwilling to put our van at unnecessary risk.
- Jun 20, 2005
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According to Whale their system regulates mains water pressure to nominal 1.5 bar ( max 1.8 bar max) I do have one but used it only once.
JTQs statement is valid especially as the various elements are connected and disconnected without thought to carefully removing contamination before connection , so any little bits can enter the system and stop the various valves/regulators from completely sealing. I serviced a van the last week or two and there were bits of of the chrome/silver plating which the plastic shower heads are coated with , in the three way drain down valve!, conclusion :- at some time the owner must have drained the system and these bits flowed back down the pipes. They were also in the aerators on the end of the taps. I always turn off the mains feed to the aquaroll when not in the van also the pump gets switched off . Never assume an automatic system will work as expected , things fail, it's the nature of things. Keeps me in a job(part time)
- Mar 14, 2005
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In addition the the above discussion, I have had to deal with a number of caravanners whos direct water link has failed to regulate the pressure supplied to the caravan causing the caravans pipe work to be over pressurised and and leak flooding the caravan ruining a holiday. The risk is low, but the consequences are formidable. The risk can be totally avoided by using an intermediary water tank with float valve, and the caravans own water pump.
There are at least two other concerns both of which I have had to deal with when customers complained.
The first is the flow of water through a pressure reducing valve is often inferior to the flow available through a submersible pump resulting in poor shower of mixer tap performance.
And the second issues is sites where several caravans are using a direct connection and their combined demand exceeds the the ability of the sites water pipes to supply all the caravans adequately.
Both situations effectively reduce the pressure and flow at the caravan. Using an intermediate tank and float valve prevents this from being a problem.
On balance I now always recommend the use of a intermediary tank system.
There are at least two other concerns both of which I have had to deal with when customers complained.
The first is the flow of water through a pressure reducing valve is often inferior to the flow available through a submersible pump resulting in poor shower of mixer tap performance.
And the second issues is sites where several caravans are using a direct connection and their combined demand exceeds the the ability of the sites water pipes to supply all the caravans adequately.
Both situations effectively reduce the pressure and flow at the caravan. Using an intermediate tank and float valve prevents this from being a problem.
On balance I now always recommend the use of a intermediary tank system.
- Jul 18, 2017
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No idea, but if a high pressure pipe bursts it should not affect the caravan as it will be the pipe leading into the caravan as caravan does not have any high pressure pipes? Never heard of a water pressure regulator failing, but probably does happen. Surely even if it did fail, would it not blow off the caravan if the taps inside the caravan are closed? I don't know and would not be willing to test that theory. LOL!
On three different caravans we have had pipes leaking. On all occasions we were using aquarolls although they would not have made any difference. First two were pin holes in the internal water pipes and third was the pipe coming off the filter. After more than 5 years using direct feed I feel confident that the Whale system was robust enough to handle water pressure however we never turn the mains tap full on.
- Jul 18, 2017
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When you state a "number of caravanners", can you give us a number as a number could be 2 or more and also how long ago did this occur, 10, 20 or 30 years ago?
I have been a member of various caravan forums for over 20 years and do not recall reading any posts about the regulator on a direct mains failing although there is an extremely rare chance of it happening.
As you accept, you have here in context to the water pipes ,"No idea".
With a failure of a basic pressure reducing regulator the whole water system pipework and its componentry can be subjected to whatever the utilities' water pressure is, not just the supply hose.
- Jun 20, 2005
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The direct system does not have a cut off valve at the entry point to the caravan. So there is never zero pressure in the caravan pipes.
The reducer brings the pressure down to 1.5 to 1.8 bar. That is the pressure the caravan internal pipes will be holding 24/7.
The aquaroll system is passive .
My onboard pump system does “pressure up” and holds a low pressure ready for each tap opening and acts as a trigger for switching on.
The reason we use the Aquarolll type system, is that we tried the direct feed type , that came with our caravan,and somehow the valve develped a fault that cut off the water completely,so no water to the van, luckily we had a small aquaroll with us and on that occasion resorted to visiting tap to refill. sinc ethen valve in the Aquaroll
- Mar 14, 2005
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I am personally aware of three caravans that suffered the failure of the pressure regulator, which the over pressured the caravans internal pipe work, and caused £K of damage. Other professionals in the trade have also reported similar failures. As I have been at pains to say, its fairly rare, but when it happens its costly both in monetary terms and of course its usually when the caravan is in use at a holiday period so there is more than just monetary costs to consider.
As far as I am aware there is no requirement for caravanners to report all failures to you, so it' hardly surprising you may not have heard of such events. It's worth bearing in mind that your solo experience doesn't always follow trends or occurrences else where and may not match the wider experience of professionals working in the field.
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- Jul 18, 2017
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Three caravans in all the time you have being dealing with caravans when thousands of caravan sold every year? You do not mention whether this occurred in the sixties, seventies eighties or later? Three caravans being flooded is not even a drop in the ocean. I was not aware that other professionals reported to you so thanks for the update.
I do not recall stating that there is a requirement for caravanners to report everything to me so not sure why you are once again twisting my words?
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When these failures occured is not relevant to the risk of the potential of failure but clearly it is since the concept of a direct water feed through a pressure reducing valve was introduced which was in the 1990s, and I left the industry in 2000 so 3 (plus others from reports to the manufacturer) in less than 10 years is more of a concern.
Whilst a small number of water pressure reducing valve failures resulting flooding a caravan may be seen by big industry as one contributor writes "not a drop in the ocean" if you ask the caravanners who have been affected by it, it's a very significant traumatic and costly event, and for that reason alone it should be treated seriously.
The figures should not be judged against the sales of caravans, as not every caravan sold had a direct feed system sold with it. It should be judged against the number of direct feed systems sold which in the early days was possibly in the region of only 5% of caravan sales.
Whilst a small number of water pressure reducing valve failures resulting flooding a caravan may be seen by big industry as one contributor writes "not a drop in the ocean" if you ask the caravanners who have been affected by it, it's a very significant traumatic and costly event, and for that reason alone it should be treated seriously.
The figures should not be judged against the sales of caravans, as not every caravan sold had a direct feed system sold with it. It should be judged against the number of direct feed systems sold which in the early days was possibly in the region of only 5% of caravan sales.
In addition to the number of caravans either sold with a direct connection or subsequently added by the owner, any statistics need to take into account that not all sites offer such a facility even if the caravan is so equipped.
- Jul 18, 2017
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Thank you. Luckily our caravan that was flooded due to the pipe issue and required new carpets etc was still under warranty. While on site we tilted the caravan so that water would run out one of the vent holes. The caravan was then taken to the dealer to dry out further, but as they stated it hardly need drying out and they also stated it would need to be submerged for a period of time, before the wood work was affected. A couple of hours will make hardly any difference.
Not my words, but theirs and I was told exactly the same thing by another brand caravan dealer for a previous caravan that was also flooded due to a pipe issue
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