Some interesting facts🙉

[Dustydog]

Absolutely nothing to do with caravanning and posted for interest only. Scrolling through the various Countries it saddens me that the U.K. is pretty well rock bottom😥😥
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/hospital-bed-density

 

[otherclive]

Beds per head of population is only one criteria for the effectiveness of a health system. Other studies have shown (pre pandemic) that the NHS provides a level of care at a cost that other countries can’t match. We’ve had low bed numbers per head of population cf to other countries for a long while now but we’re leading in things like less days in hospital for specific operations by shortening stays post procedure. . Eg I recently had day surgery under a general and was home by 1415. KC3 was resident for 3days😂

But post pandemic and with medical staff disputes it’s certainly not managed to haul itself back again.

Here’s a wider comparison by Nuffield Trust a respected organisation. Kings Fund do similar. A 2015 Nuffield report shows problems and these worsened by 2018. The 2015 link is within the 2018 report.
I say nothing…… that’s a change!

International comparisons of health care quality: How good is the NHS?

An analysis of 22 indicators of care quality across 18 countries to explore how the UK compares against health systems in other developed countries.

www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk

 

[Mr Plodd]

If you arrive at hospital, and your life is at risk tge NHS is awesome. However if you have a chronic condition it aint so good

 

[Jaydug]

If you arrive at hospital, and your life is at risk tge NHS is awesome. However if you have a chronic condition it aint so good

Plodds first statement, I’m in entire agreement with. The second, not so.
Until I reached the age of 90, I didn’t think about getting old. I had my 90th birthday in Spain during a three-month winter stay, having towed my van there. However, since the Covid lockdown, health-wise, I’ve begun to fall apart. AF had been diagnosed when I was in my eighties, but now at 94, several of my other internal organs are deciding that enough is enough.
It’s many years ago that I made an “Advanced Decision” on my future treatment and my medical records are marked so that CPR is not attempted. At the same time, I opted for any future treatment to be given at home, rather than in the hospital. My leg ulcers which began towards the end of last year were treated at home by the District Nurses who visited twice a week. Apparently, the ulcers are the result of heart failure restricting blood flow in my legs. On=going treatment is to wear compression stockings together with gaiters which increases the compression even more.
Then towards the end of February, I developed a swelling in my scrotum. It increased in size by the day, so much so that walking became difficult. Inevitably, I fell over and I realized I couldn’t go on. Although it was getting on for midnight, I had no option other than to call my daughter, who in turn called an ambulance. I then spent several hours on a trolley parked in a corridor, but finally, I was moved into a reception ward where my home treatment had been noted. However, the doctor explained he could send me home with tablets, but the treatment I really needed could only be done on the ward since it required I-V antibiotics for 36 hours. My stay lasted for four weeks, but the nurse in charge apologized because the only bed available was in a room on its own. So private ward with en-suite shower and toilet room. I have been home now for four weeks, having been transferred to what my hospital calls “Its virtual ward” In that, the patient is sent home, with a helper calling twice each day. If dressings need changing, a nurse comes instead and finally, a hospital doctor calls each week to check on progress and decide on future treatment, until the decision is taken to discharge you back to your GP.
Perhaps not every area of the NHS is giving such fine treatment, but from what I’ve seen in the past six months, the NHS is doing a first-rate job.

 

[otherclive]

Plodds first statement, I’m in entire agreement with. The second, not so.
Until I reached the age of 90, I didn’t think about getting old. I had my 90th birthday in Spain during a three-month winter stay, having towed my van there. However, since the Covid lockdown, health-wise, I’ve begun to fall apart. AF had been diagnosed when I was in my eighties, but now at 94, several of my other internal organs are deciding that enough is enough.
It’s many years ago that I made an “Advanced Decision” on my future treatment and my medical records are marked so that CPR is not attempted. At the same time, I opted for any future treatment to be given at home, rather than in the hospital. My leg ulcers which began towards the end of last year were treated at home by the District Nurses who visited twice a week. Apparently, the ulcers are the result of heart failure restricting blood flow in my legs. On=going treatment is to wear compression stockings together with gaiters which increases the compression even more.
Then towards the end of February, I developed a swelling in my scrotum. It increased in size by the day, so much so that walking became difficult. Inevitably, I fell over and I realized I couldn’t go on. Although it was getting on for midnight, I had no option other than to call my daughter, who in turn called an ambulance. I then spent several hours on a trolley parked in a corridor, but finally, I was moved into a reception ward where my home treatment had been noted. However, the doctor explained he could send me home with tablets, but the treatment I really needed could only be done on the ward since it required I-V antibiotics for 36 hours. My stay lasted for four weeks, but the nurse in charge apologized because the only bed available was in a room on its own. So private ward with en-suite shower and toilet room. I have been home now for four weeks, having been transferred to what my hospital calls “Its virtual ward” In that, the patient is sent home, with a helper calling twice each day. If dressings need changing, a nurse comes instead and finally, a hospital doctor calls each week to check on progress and decide on future treatment, until the decision is taken to discharge you back to your GP.
Perhaps not every area of the NHS is giving such fine treatment, but from what I’ve seen in the past six months, the NHS is doing a first-rate job.

Hope that you continue to make a good recovery. You are certainly receiving excellent care.

It is a mixed bag for NHS care. My BIL has Parkinson’s, cardiac and vascular deterioration plus suffers the after effects of a prostrate removal. Late 2022 he was hospitalised in Coventry and his care was very good, even including 4-5 weeks in a nursing home where district nurses, gp and Parkinson’s nurses attended him. A physiotherapist came in twice a week. But it was clear that even with carers he couldn’t live on his own. We moved him to Wiltshire a year ago and he’s now in a care home. Still gets good NHS support and the change in his physical and mental condition has been remarkable.

The corollary is that a few weeks back my granddaughter presented in the early evening at A&E with severe back pains. She had been there previously for scans and tests. After keeping her in overnight she was discharged with instructions to take pain killers. By early afternoon at home she was still in a lot of pain so my daughter rang the health Center to see her records. She was very concerned that hospital blood tests showed a very high white cell count, and urine test showed blood. Both signs of a UTI or kidney infection. So she contacted the GP who prescribed a 7 day course of antibiotics. My daughter has raised a formal complaint based on the A&E failure to address her daughters recent medical record, and for not responding to the results of blood and urine tests which patently showed UTI or kidney infection, both of which could have ramped up very quickly leading to serious conditions.

 

[Dustydog]

It seems that many newish hospitals are not owned by the NHS resulting in very high rents eroding the amount available for actual health treatment .
Mrs DD spent three weeks in hospital recently. The contrast in treatment and care over three wards was concerning.
Yet NHS have paid for a private hospital in Bath to replace both my knees over the last two years. Brilliant 👏
Last year my dentist referred me to the Gloucester Royal for tongue cancer. I was seen the next day and the offending bit cut out three days later. All clear but first class service.
It does seem to be a lottery . A great shame because most of the staff I have seen have been excellent.
Whoever runs the UK for the next five years needs to make some radical management adjustments imo. It can be fixed👍

 

[otherclive]

It seems that many newish hospitals are not owned by the NHS resulting in very high rents eroding the amount available for actual health treatment .
Mrs DD spent three weeks in hospital recently. The contrast in treatment and care over three wards was concerning.
Yet NHS have paid for a private hospital in Bath to replace both my knees over the last two years. Brilliant 👏
Last year my dentist referred me to the Gloucester Royal for tongue cancer. I was seen the next day and the offending bit cut out three days later. All clear but first class service.
It does seem to be a lottery . A great shame because most of the staff I have seen have been excellent.
Whoever runs the UK for the next five years needs to make some radical management adjustments imo. It can be fixed👍

The first PFI hospital opened in 2000, but more recently under Tony Blair private health providers set up new hospitals but NHS badged. They trended to focus on the more routine treatments and were paid an annual sum irrespective of whether they carried out the number of treatments or not. But it certainly got waiting lists down. Recently a new swathe have been opened. My daughter recently had a nose operation under a general anaesthetic in a new one in Devizes it went well.

The History of Privatisation part 4: The early days of PFI - The Lowdown

The Private Finance Initiative (PFI) began life in November 1992, two years after the enforced departure of Margaret Thatcher, and just months after John Major stunned the country by winning a surprise Tory election victory over the Labour Party led by Neil Kinnock. Chancellor Norman Lamont...

lowdownnhs.info

 

[Buckman]

Previously in South Africa when you were employed you automatically paid into a private Medical Aid scheme. I think it was compulsory by most companies, but not government policy.

The employer also subsidised the subscription by about 40-5o%. This covered visits to the doctor, hospital appointments, surgery etc. including purchase of medications however with medications I think you paid about 10% to the pharmacy.

If you saw the doctor in the morning at the local surgery for example appendicitis, that same doctor could be operating on you at the hospital that afternoon. Obviously if it was of a more specialised nature, then surgeons would operate.

 

[otherclive]

It seems that many newish hospitals are not owned by the NHS resulting in very high rents eroding the amount available for actual health treatment .
Mrs DD spent three weeks in hospital recently. The contrast in treatment and care over three wards was concerning.
Yet NHS have paid for a private hospital in Bath to replace both my knees over the last two years. Brilliant 👏
Last year my dentist referred me to the Gloucester Royal for tongue cancer. I was seen the next day and the offending bit cut out three days later. All clear but first class service.
It does seem to be a lottery . A great shame because most of the staff I have seen have been excellent.
Whoever runs the UK for the next five years needs to make some radical management adjustments imo. It can be fixed👍

A real lottery. In December my GP referred me for Urological as my meds had come to the end of the road. I received an appointment in January for a consultation at a private hospital outside of Swindon. The consultant was a bit surprised as he didn’t think that hospital were seeing NHS patients. Nevertheless I had three appointments for various tests, scans, internal cameras etc. The consultant advised I required surgery. Not a problem thought I. But it seems the anaesthetist who was NHS/private would not administer general anaesthetic to NHS patients on account of the ongoing industrial dispute. So my urologist said I would be referred to the Swindon GWH. Not a problem and I actually preferred it as the hospital has an ICU in case things don’t go to plan. The bad news was that the waiting time was 18 months and the initial tests would need to be repeated so I was looking at a two year wait. So in the end I opted to go private with my consultant urologist …. but the operation taking place in the Swindon GWH NHS hospital. Absolutely bizarre.

 

[Buckman]

A real lottery. In December my GP referred me for Urological as my meds had come to the end of the road. I received an appointment in January for a consultation at a private hospital outside of Swindon. The consultant was a bit surprised as he didn’t think that hospital were seeing NHS patients. Nevertheless I had three appointments for various tests, scans, internal cameras etc. The consultant advised I required surgery. Not a problem thought I. But it seems the anaesthetist who was NHS/private would not administer general anaesthetic to NHS patients on account of the ongoing industrial dispute. So my urologist said I would be referred to the Swindon GWH. Not a problem and I actually preferred it as the hospital has an ICU in case things don’t go to plan. The bad news was that the waiting time was 18 months and the initial tests would need to be repeated so I was looking at a two year wait. So in the end I opted to go private with my consultant urologist …. but the operation taking place in the Swindon GWH NHS hospital. Absolutely bizarre.

In the past due to the long waiting time with NHS for a back issue, I opted to pay for a private consultation and also for them to do any necessary procedures within reason i.e. injection, but obviously not surgery.

Strangely on that occasion the private consultant who could see me the next day was the same one that I saw at the NHS consultation and advised that I needed to wait 6 months for an injection at the NHS.

I have done the above on two other occasions for different issues. Going privately is not cheap, but the pain is alleviated a lot quicker as no fun being bed ridden.

 

[otherclive]

In the past due to the long waiting time with NHS for a back issue, I opted to pay for a private consultation and also for them to do any necessary procedures within reason i.e. injection, but obviously not surgery.

Strangely on that occasion the private consultant who could see me the next day was the same one that I saw at the NHS consultation and advised that I needed to wait 6 months for an injection at the NHS.

I have done the above on two other occasions for different issues. Going privately is not cheap, but the pain is alleviated a lot quicker as no fun being bed ridden.

The pracise of consultants working for the nhs and private has been embedded in the system for years, My mother would pay for an initial private consultation and then find herself moved up the consultants NHS list to a shorter waiting time. They make RMT and ASLEF look amateurish.

 

[Buckman]

The pracise of consultants working for the nhs and private has been embedded in the system for years, My mother would pay for an initial private consultation and then find herself moved up the consultants NHS list to a shorter waiting time. They make RMT and ASLEF look amateurish.

Sorry I don't understand the reference to RMT and ASLEF as no idea what sort of surgery they do?

 

[Raywood]

It seems to me the statistics proves very little. We may have a figure that looks not too bad, but if those 2.5 beds are blocked by patients who could be dealt with elsewhere, the beds are not available and effectively useless. What you need to know is how many free beds are available and that may be where we fail.

 

[otherclive]

Sorry I don't understand the reference to RMT and ASLEF as no idea what sort of surgery they do?

I will try not to be sarcastic in my reply. On a number of occasions different governments have tried to confine NHS consultants to only practice in the NHS and not carry out private practice. They have failed totally to make any progress. In fact some NHS hospitals even provide the opportunity for private practice on site, which I have jjust benefitted from. The consultants “union” the BMA are one of the biggest obstacles to progress in many areas, but that’s what they are there for, to represent the interests of their members. In some respects more radical than the rail unions.

 

[Buckman]

I will try not to be sarcastic in my reply. On a number of occasions different governments have tried to confine NHS consultants to only practice in the NHS and not carry out private practice. They have failed totally to make any progress. In fact some NHS hospitals even provide the opportunity for private practice on site, which I have jjust benefitted from. The consultants “union” the BMA are one of the biggest obstacles to progress in many areas, but that’s what they are there for, to represent the interests of their members. In some respects more radical than the rail unions.

It was a genuine question so why would you need to be sarcastic?

 

[RogerL]

A real lottery. In December my GP referred me for Urological as my meds had come to the end of the road. I received an appointment in January for a consultation at a private hospital outside of Swindon. The consultant was a bit surprised as he didn’t think that hospital were seeing NHS patients. Nevertheless I had three appointments for various tests, scans, internal cameras etc. The consultant advised I required surgery. Not a problem thought I. But it seems the anaesthetist who was NHS/private would not administer general anaesthetic to NHS patients on account of the ongoing industrial dispute. So my urologist said I would be referred to the Swindon GWH. Not a problem and I actually preferred it as the hospital has an ICU in case things don’t go to plan. The bad news was that the waiting time was 18 months and the initial tests would need to be repeated so I was looking at a two year wait. So in the end I opted to go private with my consultant urologist …. but the operation taking place in the Swindon GWH NHS hospital. Absolutely bizarre.

The massive backlog in the NHS has pushed a lot of patients into the private sector, either as self-pay patients or referred from the NHS to reduce their backlog - the problem is that the private hospitals are cherry-picking the simpler, less risky cases and leaving the NHS to deal with complex or risky patients - and then of course if anything goes wrong with private treatment the NHS is expected to put it right!

 

[Dustydog]

A real lottery. In December my GP referred me for Urological as my meds had come to the end of the road. I received an appointment in January for a consultation at a private hospital outside of Swindon. The consultant was a bit surprised as he didn’t think that hospital were seeing NHS patients. Nevertheless I had three appointments for various tests, scans, internal cameras etc. The consultant advised I required surgery. Not a problem thought I. But it seems the anaesthetist who was NHS/private would not administer general anaesthetic to NHS patients on account of the ongoing industrial dispute. So my urologist said I would be referred to the Swindon GWH. Not a problem and I actually preferred it as the hospital has an ICU in case things don’t go to plan. The bad news was that the waiting time was 18 months and the initial tests would need to be repeated so I was looking at a two year wait. So in the end I opted to go private with my consultant urologist …. but the operation taking place in the Swindon GWH NHS hospital. Absolutely bizarre.

You will remember the brilliant Shalbourne Suite.The GWH private wing. Less distance for the NHS Consultants to travel from their NHS job to their Private one 🤪.Since Covid this wing seems to be used for lots of different things . I can say with first hand experience of Mrs DD the in house Critical Care Team were brilliant. They are part of ICU and deal with all in house hospital emergencies. Impressive and life saving. Whilst the Bath Clinic was excellent if anything goes wrong it’s Blues and Twos.

 

[otherclive]

The massive backlog in the NHS has pushed a lot of patients into the private sector, either as self-pay patients or referred from the NHS to reduce their backlog - the problem is that the private hospitals are cherry-picking the simpler, less risky cases and leaving the NHS to deal with complex or risky patients - and then of course if anything goes wrong with private treatment the NHS is expected to put it right!

I thought that Dusty was referring to the newer local area hospitals run by the private sector but badged NHS. We have a couple near to us. One does day surgery only. If a patient for some reason is then required to stay overnight they are transported to one 25 miles away in Bristol. The Bristol one does more complex cases such as knees, hips and has overnight wards. Outside of Bath is an ostensibly private hospital (Sulis) that has been taken over by the Bath RUH a major NHS hospital. So there are three categories of private hospital. One clearly not NHS and owned/ operated by a commercial healthcare company. There is the second type owned and operated by a commercial healthcare company but badged NHS. Then there are NHS hospitals that also provide private treatment facilities.

Are the private hospitals cherry picking or are they being given the less complex cases more suited to their facilities. Most have no ICU capability, in the event of problems the patient will have to be taken by ambulance to the nearest NHS major hospital with ICU capability. This mix and match approach leaves the NHS hospitals to treat patients with more complex medical needs which its finite skills and facilities are best used for in resource constrained times.

The parallel working of the NHS and private sector has been going on for a long while. In 1998 my wife had an operation carried out privately at the Royal Devon and Exeter hospital, because two previous attempts via NHS hospitals in Barrow and Bath had caused her significant problems as fundamentally the operations had not worked as intended. I also recall under the last Labour government some patients were even given the option to have their operations abroad as a way to reduce waiting time. So much to the chagrin of some, the mixed NHS and Private healthcare economy is a well established feature of British life.

 

[otherclive]

You will remember the brilliant Shalbourne Suite.The GWH private wing. Less distance for the NHS Consultants to travel from their NHS job to their Private one 🤪.Since Covid this wing seems to be used for lots of different things . I can say with first hand experience of Mrs DD the in house Critical Care Team were brilliant. They are part of ICU and deal with all in house hospital emergencies. Impressive and life saving. Whilst the Bath Clinic was excellent if anything goes wrong it’s Blues and Twos.

I only remember it from when my daughter had a knee operation there. As you say it’s not yet reopened post Covid although June has been mentioned for reopening. But I’ve absolutely no complaints at my treatment in the GWH Day Surgery unit taken over for the weekend for private treatments..