Just found out about the new law (from a TV ad!). The vehicle must now be insured at all times, whether in use or not or a SORN declaration must be made. My daughter has just bought a new car and left the old one on my drive for me to sell it for her. It is taxed to October and I am insured 3rd party on my own insurance to drive a vehicle not belonging to me so I thought I would be ok. NOT SO!! If the vehicle is uninsured any valid tax disc must be returned to the DVLA for a refund and the vehicle declared SORN. So what do I do now? Surely no one will buy a car without a road test and my insurance company say they wont do temporary insurance and I must take it out for a year, oh and by the way despite having full no claims discount on 2 vehicles I have to pay the full premium as I haven't earned any discount on a third vehicle! I know that uninsured drivers are a real problem but this surely puts me in the position of having to break the law by taking a SORN vehicle for a road test but what else can I do? Jim.
SORN for no insurance
- Thread starter JandP
- Start date
Damian
Moderator
Get a days insurance.
Google "Day Car Insurance" and you will find lots of places offering such,,this is just one: http://www.dayinsure.com/
Google "Day Car Insurance" and you will find lots of places offering such,,this is just one: http://www.dayinsure.com/
This is interesting,wonder how this will pan out? Are trade plate owners exempt? as trade plates surely cannot be used to cover more than one car on the road at the same time? So a trader could have 2 or 10 cars that need to be sorned to meet these requirements.
If there is some sort of exempt ruling how will the DVLA know that the cars belong to traders?This could be one of those fun to watch rulings.
If there is some sort of exempt ruling how will the DVLA know that the cars belong to traders?This could be one of those fun to watch rulings.
j and p - you wouldnt have been insured to drive third party on your insurance anyhow as the vehicle would have to have had its own insurance.
I found that out to my cost, thought i would have been ok as well, if you had had a bump they wouldnt have paid out.
And i think its a stupid law, because what difference does it mean to people if its sorn or not if they`re breaking the law they`d do it anyhow. Its only the law abiding ones that get clobbered.
There are garages who collect your car for MOT`s and use their trade plates to do it at no extra cost, so your ok there. Cheaper than insuring it
I found that out to my cost, thought i would have been ok as well, if you had had a bump they wouldnt have paid out.
And i think its a stupid law, because what difference does it mean to people if its sorn or not if they`re breaking the law they`d do it anyhow. Its only the law abiding ones that get clobbered.
There are garages who collect your car for MOT`s and use their trade plates to do it at no extra cost, so your ok there. Cheaper than insuring it
Thanks for that susanswift, I enquired some time ago, cant remember where and was told that the car would only be insured while I was sitting in it. Would have been interesting if I had been stoppd by the police and asked to "step out of the car sir"! Jim.
- you wouldnt have been insured to drive third party on your insurance anyhow as the vehicle would have to have had its own insurance.
Hi,
Different insurers have different policies. My insurers, LV, tell me that I am insured even if the other car is not (OK, that was over the phone).
But my understanding is that whatever it says on your Certificate of Insurance is what they must comply with. Period!
602
Hi,
Different insurers have different policies. My insurers, LV, tell me that I am insured even if the other car is not (OK, that was over the phone).
But my understanding is that whatever it says on your Certificate of Insurance is what they must comply with. Period!
602
Damian
Moderator
Quote " My insurers, LV, tell me that I am insured even if the other car is not (OK, that was over the phone)."
I would treat that information as very suspect and get it IN WRITING before attempting to use it.
I would treat that information as very suspect and get it IN WRITING before attempting to use it.
I am also with LV and I think it was them that told me it was ok. If the car was insured named driver only but not for the person driving and they were covered 3rd party on their own insurance who would be liable in the event of an accident? Some insurers, including LV Frizzell give you an extra couple of weeks cover on your old car when you change vehicle so you can sell the old one but what happens if you cant sell it during that period? Surely this new law, which came in from 1st July makes selling your car (legally) privately much more difficult. Jim.
It's a pity that you don't have such a thing as temporary plates as we do over here. That would get around the problem.
They are basically similar to trade plates, but only valid for up to 5 days and they automatically include insurance coverage. Anybody can pick them up from the local vehicle licensing office.
They are basically similar to trade plates, but only valid for up to 5 days and they automatically include insurance coverage. Anybody can pick them up from the local vehicle licensing office.
I would treat that information as very suspect and get it IN WRITING before attempting to use it.
Hi Damien,
A letter from your insurer has no validity at all. If the Certificate of Insurance doesn't say that you are covered, then you ain't. So presumably, if the Cerificate says you are covered, then you is.
Some years ago, I took out a Trader's Insurance policy through a broker. Every month, I had to write to them, and would get a cover note by return. The policy time expired, and I was not happy renewing with that broker, so I wrote asking for the returm of my NCB. No answer was the stern reply.
Eventually, I wrote to the insurance company. They phoned to explain than my proposal had been rejected on a technicality. They said that they would return my NCB (which they did). They said that their rejection did not need to be mentioned when applying for insurance elsewhere. They suggested that I wrote to the broker asking for the return of my premium. I asked what would have happened if I had had an accident. They said they would have honoured the cover notes.
The broker returned my premium, but did not include a covering letter. An excellent deal .... 12 months trader's insurance for free.
602
Hi Damien,
A letter from your insurer has no validity at all. If the Certificate of Insurance doesn't say that you are covered, then you ain't. So presumably, if the Cerificate says you are covered, then you is.
Some years ago, I took out a Trader's Insurance policy through a broker. Every month, I had to write to them, and would get a cover note by return. The policy time expired, and I was not happy renewing with that broker, so I wrote asking for the returm of my NCB. No answer was the stern reply.
Eventually, I wrote to the insurance company. They phoned to explain than my proposal had been rejected on a technicality. They said that they would return my NCB (which they did). They said that their rejection did not need to be mentioned when applying for insurance elsewhere. They suggested that I wrote to the broker asking for the return of my premium. I asked what would have happened if I had had an accident. They said they would have honoured the cover notes.
The broker returned my premium, but did not include a covering letter. An excellent deal .... 12 months trader's insurance for free.
602
Lutz said:
We had those in South Africa except that they were valid for 14 days. Would be very helpful if they had a simialr system over here. I can't see how having a vehicle insured is going to rpevent untaxed, uninsured vehicles been drvien on the road by an unlicenced driver. The only ones who will be scoring will be insurers, DVLA and the government!
Parksy
Moderator
I sold my old Pajero which I'd declared SORN because although it still had a valid tax disk I'd transferred my insurance to my new(er) and larger Paj. The MOT on the old Pajero expired in the meantime so I bought one weeks worth of cover online from Aviva for about £96 if I remember right.
The car sailed through it's MOT as expected with no advisories which added to it's kerb appeal. Before I took it for an MOT I'd already placed adverts on both Preloved and Ebay and the car was sold within the week for a fair price which reflected it's good condition and regular maintenance.
I kept the Pajero on my drive for a few days more while the buyer arranged his insurance and his private registration plate and the whole procedure was relatively simple.
I gather that the insurance requirement is to prevent toerags from keeping uninsured old bangers which they drive around whenever the mood takes them and provided that the correct procedure is followed I can't see the problem. If the vehicle has been properly declared as offroad via SORN registration which costs nothing and can be done online there is no insurance requirement until you want to drive the vehicle again.
The car sailed through it's MOT as expected with no advisories which added to it's kerb appeal. Before I took it for an MOT I'd already placed adverts on both Preloved and Ebay and the car was sold within the week for a fair price which reflected it's good condition and regular maintenance.
I kept the Pajero on my drive for a few days more while the buyer arranged his insurance and his private registration plate and the whole procedure was relatively simple.
I gather that the insurance requirement is to prevent toerags from keeping uninsured old bangers which they drive around whenever the mood takes them and provided that the correct procedure is followed I can't see the problem. If the vehicle has been properly declared as offroad via SORN registration which costs nothing and can be done online there is no insurance requirement until you want to drive the vehicle again.
The problem is Parksy that under the new law, if the vehicle is uninsured you have to declare SORN and return any valid tax disc for a refund. Its ok to drive an untaxed vehicle for a prearrange MOT but if you want to offer road tests and stay legal then it must be taxed and insured and also not SORNed. It seems the only way is to arrange for insurance cover to continue on the old vehicle as well as the new one and not declare SORN until its sold. I think I have resolved the problem with our daughters car because I think we are going to pass it on within the family, but for now its SORNed and the old tax is going back for a refund (shame we missed out on July!). Jim.
ok hubbys been lostening in..
What happens if you've sorned your car and it on you private property therefore, no public road insurance needed as its in the garega.
OMG the house has burnt down LOL the car is in the garage, it now black charred no seats just wireLOL who pays up?
house ins?? I would have to get our policy out but its something I've not thought about with my ins car in the garage..
I know someone knows out there who's the first with the answer???
What happens if you've sorned your car and it on you private property therefore, no public road insurance needed as its in the garega.
OMG the house has burnt down LOL the car is in the garage, it now black charred no seats just wireLOL who pays up?
house ins?? I would have to get our policy out but its something I've not thought about with my ins car in the garage..
I know someone knows out there who's the first with the answer???
Parksy
Moderator
You are allowed to declare a vehicle SORN on the 5th day of the month that the tax is due to expire Jim. I wasn't aware of any requirement to return a valid tax disk but if that's the case then the best way around it would be to advertise the old car for sale while it is still insured or just delay sending the tax disk back until the car is sold using temporary insurance which would remove the need to declare the car SORN. Is it an offence to test drive a SORN declared vehicle which is taxed, Mot'd and insured? If it is then we unknowingly commited the offence when I sold the old Pajero because the guy took it on a short test drive but apart from the SORN the car was legal. We simply sent the V11 back with the new keepers details in the usual way and he (presumably) taxed it at the end of that month when it became due.J and P said:
Hi Parksy, I dont know if you commited an offence or not but presumably that was before 1st July when the law changed. When I found out about it on Saturday evening I went in to a bit of a panic because I was concerned that my daughter had commited an offence by following my advice. I searched the DVLA website for more information and I'm sure I read the bit about the need to return any valid tax disc. I know uninsured drivers are a menace and increase costs for the rest of us but it seems to me that this new rule will increase the burden on innocent motorists but do very little to deter the law breakers. Jim.
Hi,
Your insurance expires in the middle of the month, you return the tax disc, but don't get a refund for that month.
You sell the car the following day, and the new keeper has to tax the car from the beginning of the month, so FVLA are getting double tax for that month. Not only that, there may have been a Budget increase in VED, so the new keeper has to pay the higher amount.
There used to be a clause in the Act, that said that if VED had been paid for any month, it could not be demanded again. That clause has disappeared. OK, so the new keeper has to retax from the beginning of the month, but at one time he could ask for a refund of that month's tax.
My insurers, LV, say (on the telephone) that they keep your old car covered for 14 days, following the purchase of a new car, to give you time to sell it. If you don't sell it within 14 fays, they said that they are willing to discuss it.
602
Your insurance expires in the middle of the month, you return the tax disc, but don't get a refund for that month.
You sell the car the following day, and the new keeper has to tax the car from the beginning of the month, so FVLA are getting double tax for that month. Not only that, there may have been a Budget increase in VED, so the new keeper has to pay the higher amount.
There used to be a clause in the Act, that said that if VED had been paid for any month, it could not be demanded again. That clause has disappeared. OK, so the new keeper has to retax from the beginning of the month, but at one time he could ask for a refund of that month's tax.
My insurers, LV, say (on the telephone) that they keep your old car covered for 14 days, following the purchase of a new car, to give you time to sell it. If you don't sell it within 14 fays, they said that they are willing to discuss it.
602
Parksy
Moderator
It looks as though I'm in the clear then Jim, I sold my old car in April. I bought the temporary insurance to stay legal and although it seemed a bit on the pricey side for just one week I couldn't have MOT'd the car with no cover. I hadn't realised that there's been another rule change since then but as you say, the law abiding majority have to pay for the misdeeds of the uninsured while the insurance companies rake the cash in as usual.
Hi Parksy
So you phone up your insurers, arrange cover for your car, get the car MoTd, then return the insurance documents within 15 days, and get a refund. Its the law .... but it seems sharp practice.
However, talking to my insurers, I mentioned this scam. The lady on other end of the phone said "Ah, but we deduct, from the refund, for the period they have been on cover". So I asked if they could "formalise" that arrangement, so that us customers could take advantage of this policy without being frowned at. She didn't seem to understand what I was suggesting.
602
So you phone up your insurers, arrange cover for your car, get the car MoTd, then return the insurance documents within 15 days, and get a refund. Its the law .... but it seems sharp practice.
However, talking to my insurers, I mentioned this scam. The lady on other end of the phone said "Ah, but we deduct, from the refund, for the period they have been on cover". So I asked if they could "formalise" that arrangement, so that us customers could take advantage of this policy without being frowned at. She didn't seem to understand what I was suggesting.
602
Parksy
Moderator
No, I used proper temporary car insurance for a fixed period although it might have been a bit cheaper to do as you suggested.602 said:
http://www.aviva.co.uk/short-term-car-insurance/
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