Space saver for full size spare

[mat1]

After reading a few forums i decided to look into the space saver issue a little further.
It seemed to be a common issue but not given enough exposure.
I believe more of an issue with more and more, towcars, not even being supplied with space savers, let alone full size spares.

I am off to France in August, have taken out the red pennant etc, and whilst looking through the documentation it mentions about "servicable spare"
After contacting Vauxhall they stated that using the space saver whilst towing was not to be done, as it was not safe, nor what the spare was intended for.
This begged the question then if the space saver was in fact a servicable spare .............. i guessed not.
I drew the conclusion that it wasnt, and certainly not fit for purpose under a towing scenario.

Luckily i have sourced a full sized identical, to my road wheels, alloy with part worn tyre (5mm remaining)

The price £70 delivered !!

I shall now swap the spares over whenever i tow the caravan, and have extra peace of mind, particularily abroad, for what i believe is a very reasonable price.

Has anyone else done, or given thought to this ?
Your views please.

Mat

 

[Steve L]

Hi Mat.
Sound like your making the right move there mate. I wouldn't risk a space saver while towing. The advice on space savers is to only run them on the back of the car anyway. So this could make the unit unstable or unpredictable in corners.

One thought. If you have enough load capacity, you could fit a second wheel carrier under the caravan and carry both spares, thus avoiding accidentally leaving the full size wheel at home.

 

[yorkykev]

When we bought new freelander 2 it came with space saver steel spare wheel, was'nt happy about towing van with this so bought a second hand alloy wheel off ebay, got it reconditioned by local specialist, put on new tyre and put it into boot space - fits in no problem and looks brand new.
Touch wood never had to use it but feel far happier having a proper wheel as a spare, especially when abroad.

 

[ValA.]

When OH used to get a company Mondeo they came with a space saver - but under their working terms and conditions the staff were on call and had to be able to get to a call-out in the quickest possible time. OH argued that they couldn't do this if they were only supplied with a space saver because it would slow down the journey too much even if they changed the wheel. The company replaced the space savers with a proper wheel. This allowed us to tow without problems using the company car. The wheel just fits into the space in the boot if you remove the plastic tray under the boot carpet.
When OH was made redundant we bought a Ford Mondeo for ourselves. We had to buy a replacement wheel and tyre, but at least that allows us to tow without problems, and doesn't invalidate our breakdown insurance.

 

[Lutz]

Regardless of whether towing or not, the intent of a space saver is NOT to be able to continue your journey, but only in an emergency to get to the nearest garage. The reduced maximum speed that applies to the space saver of course applies when not towing as well. In view of the fact that the maximum permissible static wheel load is the same whether towing or not, it does surprise me somewhat that manufacturers categorically advise against using a space saver when towing. It would be interesting to have an expanation.

 

[Steve L]

Hi Lutz.

I think the manufacturers don't recommend towing because of the lack of balanced grip of the tyre. After al, having a tyre on one side of the axle half the width of the rest of the road tyres will be out of balance what ever you do with it. What I think is rathr stupid is that the manufacturers don't actually modify the press tooling to accomodate the thinner wheel & tyre. You might be able to put a briefcase in the vacant gap between a space saver and the boot floor. But the awkwardness of access makes the space not viable to use.

 

[Lutz]

I understand what you are saying, Steve, but the same logic also applies to the use of a space saver tyre when the car is used solo, i.e. not towing.

 

[Surfer]

Just to put thsi in persepctive. If you are towing and you have a puctrue, it is pointless fitting the space saver as you cannot tow with it, you cannot leave your caravan by the roadside so basically you are stuffed and need to call out a brekdown company. The interesting part is if it is a new car and the breakdown cover is with RAC who refuse to move the car and caravan to a safe place because only the car is covered unless you pay the difference, what do you do?
My Volvo S80 had the space saver spare, but we carried a full size spare. However as it was a 17" tyre, it lifted the boot mat and you had to be careful how you loaded stuff in the boot. Our Mondeo which is a lease car has a space saver spare but as we are getting rid of it, won't bother with updating the spare.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If space savers are supplied with a vehicle, it is up to the manufacture of either car or the tyre to ensure that any limitations as to thier use are made blatently clear. So if towing is not specifcally prohibited then toweing is within the remit of its use provided no other limits are exceeded.

 

[ChrisUK]

They are not space savers, they are cost savers. Both my previous car (Mazda6) and my current car XTRail T31, have space savers but fortunately have room in the well for a full sized spare which in both cases I bought cheaply from Ebay. The XTrails space saver is actually slightly wider across the tread than the standard Alloy and I had to add about 10mm of packing to get the boot level. If someone is thinking of buying a new up speced Xtrail Tenka, beware, they have 18" wheels - see the XTrail forum.
Neither of the above could tow with the supplied spare.
I think I read somewhere that Disco 4s come with a full sized spare, but if a towbar is fitted you have to have a reduced sized spare. (Sorry LR fans if I have got this wrong).
The Korians seem to be the only ones that get it right.

 

[MichaelE]

Wheels have got bigger,the fitting of 18,19 and 20 sizes seem to be common,so where do you put it,always wondered a car with full luggage and people where you put a 20" wheel if you have a puncture, coupled with the need to distribute weight (Audi put the battery in the boot). The space saver saves weight in the manufactures quest to make cars lighters to make them more economical and bring down the Co2 so they arent taxed so much on the road.

 

[ChrisUK]

The Xtrails Emergency wheel is slightly bigger than the alloy and about the same weight (dia same, width thicker). so it can only be a cost saver. The mazda 6 spacesaver is ridiculously small, after a blow out on the M25 and a long journey home (solo) on the spacesaver, it made me very aware of the problem.

 

[otherclive]

My Xc70 has a space saver and Volvo advice speed should not exceed 50mph and seek to limit distance to below 50 miles. Keeping the speed down is okay but sometimes in europe finding tyre supplier within 50 miles can be a problem, as it is in northern Scotland. Unfortunately a normal width wheel will not fit the stowage area without lifting the boot flooor and making loading far more difficult. So my approach would be to contact Mayday or redflag and have a tyre bought to me if I could not confidently find one within the 50 miles distance. As regards towing the XC70 can tow with the space saver within the above limits, which as Lutz says are still within the normal load limits for the car itself. As regards the car's stabilty I don't expect the space saver to be unsafe providing you drive with due regard to its limits and if the car has stability control this will help a difficult situation. I drove a Saab 9000CSe 2..3 turbo (no ESP/TC) with a space saver on the front and it juust drove normally albeit keeping acceleration low and speed below 50mph. Although at the end of it I like LRs approach with FL2 where the owner can decide to fit a full size spare without any further compromises to thye load bay.

 

[Surfer]

We were very keen on the Chev Orlando, but heavy fuel usage, a tow bar issue plus the big NO NO, NO spare at all just could not cut ice with me despite the missus wanting the Orlando. salesman stated it shoudl not be a problem as the breakdown truck coudl recvoer the vehicle. Normally the breakdown woudl attend but then they have to either tow you to the nearest depot, tyre removed and new one fitted. Delay 2 - 3 hours. If you only need to change a spare, 20 minutes.
Exactly the same cars are sold in South Africa, however if they did not have a full size spare they would not sell. Would you want to be stuck by a roadside where you have a very good chance of being mugged or even killed. Would you want to travel hundreds of miles before you were able to get the tyre replaced?

 

[Lutz]

A couple of years ago, when our company started introducing aerosol puncture kits as an alternative to a spare wheel I asked the release engineer what the idea behind this was. His reply was that tyre punctures are nowadays no more frequent than other causes of breakdown, such as vehicle electronics. As no-one expects to carry a spare ECU it doesn't make sense to carry a spare wheel, either.
Well, anyway that was his train of thought which convinced management and eventually led to the spare wheel being dropped as standard fitment.

 

[Steve L]

I've got to say that punctures are rare. (now I'm gona get 1).

The aerosol puncture in a can kits are no cure for a puncture either, as you just temporarily plug the hole and don't know what the damage is around the hole.

By far the best solution is a full size spare wheel. As I've already said, if there is enough weight capacity, I'd fit a second spare wheel carrier to the van to hold the full size spare. Then you could still carry the skinny spare supplied with the car.

When I was looking for my Rover 75 tourer, it seemed a lucky dip if you got a full size spare or a skinny spare.

Call me over cautious, but I always practice a wheel change on any new vehicle just to ensure I know how to do it because, you will never have a flat tyre on a sunny day and have a lay-by in sight to change the wheel in. It'll be midnight, lashing down rain, blowing a gale and you'll be on a single track road in the middle of nowhere.

 

[mat1]

Good to read so many replies to my topic.
My full size matching alloy spare, with part worn tyre (5mm tread), arrived within three days of ordering.
I was very pleased with the service, as new condition of the wheel and condition of the tyre.
£70 delivered

In the interest of safety by not towing with a space saver, and sharing knowledge i recommend WEST COAST WHEELS.
http://www.westcoastwheels.co.uk/
Ebay user wcw201013
Ask for Mark

Mat

 

[NigelHutson]

Last year I did some testing with a space saver tyre/wheel whilst towing. The vehicle was a 2010 Vauxhall Astra 2.0 CDTi towing a Swift Charisma caravan (can't remember the exact model, but it was ballasted to the magical 85% of the tow cars kerbside mass). The car had the standard alloy wheels, with the standard spec space saver tyre, which was some 10cms smaller in diameter than the other wheels, fitted to the front offside. Even making some quite violent manoeuvres made absolutely no difference to the handling or towing ability of the vehicle. Obviously the towing was done at a maximum of 50 mph, that being the maximum speed recommended for the tyre.
The result was that the only difference was that the space saver tyre did get quite a bit warmer than the other tyres, and that was it. It surprised me as much as the observers that were present. I hasten to add that the above testing was all done at test facilities. Therefore I personally wouldn't have a problem using a space saver in an emergency, provided that it was used at the lower speed recommended, and for the maximum distance recommended too.
I understand that something may be published as a result of the testing, and I have been informed that certain vehicle manufacturers are looking into the situation, and will hopefully amend their thoughts, given that when asked why a space saver couldn't be used, no answer was forthcoming.
Watch this space (no pun intended).

 

[mat1]

with the standard spec space saver tyre, which was some 10cms smaller in diameter than the other wheels, fitted to the front offside.

Would the same be said if the space saver was fitted to the rear ?
IMO only half a test was carried out there.
The fact that the tyre got "quite a bit warmer than the other tyres" rings alarm bells to me.

Mat

 

[Ricey]

I recently had a puncture just as we were hitching up to leave a site. Literally, just as we were hitching up! Quick phone round and managed to locate a new tyre in the nearest town which was about 16 miles away. I fitted the space saver on the front nearside, checked the tyre pressure was correct and set off with the caravan in tow.

We averaged around 25-30mph for the journey, didn't exceed 40mph and upon arrival at the tyre fitters the space saver wheel itself was more than just a bit warm, it was very warm, almost to hot to touch. I presume that some of this heat is down to the poor ability of steel to dissapate heat compared to alloy, but I was still very surprised at just how much heat was generated by a relatively short journey at reasonable speeds. I certainly wouldn't like to drive any significant distance on a space saver and will only tow with one again if I have no other option.

When we arrived home (120 mile journey) I checked all our wheels just in case the heat had been caused by a seized brake, but the alloy car wheels and steel caravan wheels were as cool to the touch as you would expect.

 

[NigelHutson]

We stuck to the recommendation that the space saver should be used on the front of the car (from Vauxhall themselves). I think it says in the handbook that the space saver should be used on the front in any event (I will stand corrected as I'm going from memory). The alarm bells shouldn't be ringing, that's why there's an 80 kph (50 mph) speed limit and a maximum recommended distance on space savers. Quite honestly, anyone doing what we were doing on a public road solo, let alone with a caravan in tow ought to be sectioned, let alone have their driving licence taken away!

 

[mat1]

The alarm bells do, and should ring because they are not safe, especially when towing.
If manufacturers put such tight limitations on a component, then they must have concerns.

1) restricted distance
2) restricted speed
3) don't use whilst towing
4) only use on the front when towing
5) offering a full sized option in place of the space saver, if the vehicle was purchased for towing
not to mention the change in driving charicteristics.

Lets take point 4.
You are on the hardshoulder, for arguments sake, towing a caravan, and have a rear wheel puncture.
You have a space saver which can only be used on the front.
Unless you have an additional and suitable jack, you will have to carry out FOUR wheel changes to get the space saver on to the front wheel !!! How is that safe in itself ?

Then there is the third party involvment.
Breakdown companies, making specific clauses in the documentation, or, refusing to come out as they class the space saver, under a towing scenario, as not being a servicable spare.

I can see the fight in court, as the barristers fight out the death by dangerous, as the space saver was the principal cause, or certainly a contributory factor in the loss of control of the vehicle, whilst towing..

I agree they have a place, solo driving for one, and certainly a better option than a can of gloop, but whilst towing is not one of them.
Safety has got to be paramount when you have over a 1000kg of caravan behind you, and a car full of your nearest and dearest, not to mention the third party road user.

Mat

 

[Lutz]

Frankly, I'm still not clear in my mind why towing is any worse than having a space saver on a fully laden solo car. If it's dangerous when towing it should be equally dangerous solo.

 

[NigelHutson]

Where is your evidence that they are unsafe? If they are, then why are they supplied with cars?
I accept that a full size spare is better, but driven within their limits (speed and distance) space savers are ok.
Have you driven a vehicle hard with a space saver to test the handling? I am interested to know what your results were.
FACT. I have driver such a vehicle and the ONLY difference that I noticed was that if you let go of the steering wheel, the vehicle had a very slight tendency to drift to the offside (the side that the space saver was fitted on), and that is highly likely to have been the different size overall than the fact that it was a space saver. It did not pull to that side, and when holding the wheel, there certainly was no pull.
Testing with vehicles (without a caravan in tow) at the Metropolitan Police's Handling and Dynamics course also gave the same result.
I personally wouldn't want to have to change any wheel on the hard shoulder of any motorway, but if Vauxhall said that the space saver should be used only on the front, then if that's what it takes then..................... However, it would be two changes, not four (jack up the front, change that wheel for the space saver, then change the flat rear for the one taken off the front).
There is an option to buy a full sized spare for anyone. Indeed, I have done it twice before when the cars I had were supplied with space savers. The main reason for that was because if I had a puncture whilst towing, and had several hundred miles to travel, I wouldn't want to have to find a tyre supplier in a foreign country because I had travelled the restricted distance on the space saver.
Manufacturers have been contacted by a large, well known organisation, asking why they suggest that space savers shouldn't be used for towing, and as far as I am aware none has yet come up with an answer. I do know that at least one manufacturer is revising their thoughts.
As far as being prosecuted is concerned, it would depend what the driver was doing. If someone had driven for a hundred miles at 60 mph, and the tyre let go as they were overtaking on a hairpin bend, then I think there would be questions to be answered. However, if the tyre was fitted on the front of the vehicle as per the instruction, and was being used as intended, then it probably wouldn't let go.
Manufactrers will always err on the side of caution. Indeed, if you look in most VAG (VW, Skoda, Seat, Audi) handbooks (certainly the last time I checked in 2010) , they suggest that you shouldn't go at speeds in excess of 80 kph (50 mph) when towing. How many of those vehicles do you see sticking rigidly to that?

 

[Steve L]

Glad you did your test on a closed test track Nigel.

As far as I am aware there is not a car hand book produced that does not recommend only fitting space saver wheels to the rear axle. In other words if you have a flat on the front, swap a rear wheel for the space saver and then change the flat front tyre for the full size rear wheel.

An Astra is a front wheel drive vehicle and as such both steering, acceleration and braking affects on a space saver would generate significant heat production.

Given all the faf and fiddle of changing the wheels around as per GM's recommendations in the hand book and the fact that the wheel well is full size wheel depth, I don't see any benefit in a skinny spare.

Oh BTW, don't forget to replace that overheated tyre. Mind you it cost's 3 times that of a new full size tyre and you usually have to wait for the depot to order a space saver tyre.

All in all I'd say a waste of space!! O