No country allows 140km/h, JimF. It's only the technically approved maximum speed, regardless of any traffic laws.
I'm not aware of such a regulation, Cris. My car is governed to a maximum of 180km/h although Germany has no overall speed limit and there is plenty enough power in the engine to go faster. Also, some cars are fitted with tyres of a lower speed rating than what they are actually be capable of, so that artifically limits there top speed, too.
It came sort of 3rd hand via a vehicle and trailer builder, being capable of, but having other restrictions may be another factor. I understand their trailers and commercial vehicles are built to be capable of permitted legal speed limits in Europe for the type of commercial vehicles they build.
From memory I don't think the trailer speed in Germany is unlimited and the point was made in relation to Bailey's and another manufacturers 81 mph that coincides with the French limit that is the highest I believe.
And I doubt that Bailey's would advise towing at 81mph.
From memory I don't think the trailer speed in Germany is unlimited and the point was made in relation to Bailey's and another manufacturers 81 mph that coincides with the French limit that is the highest I believe.
And I doubt that Bailey's would advise towing at 81mph.
ps: There is a self-commitment within the European car industry to limit the top speed to 250km/h even though the car may be capable of higher speeds. If the driver overrides the governor and has an accident at a higher speed (which would be allowed in Germany) I'm sure he'd have problems claiming restrictive practice (assuming he has survived the accident).
Based on Alko's response specifying a maximum design speed of 140km/h, Bailey's should be complimented on pointing out to their customers that their caravans are approved up to 130km/h. According to Rob_jax's reply, Hymer are more conservative and specifically state that 100km/h is the maximum for their products. Giovanni says that his B
I'm not sure what point you are making Lutz as surely we are talking about caravans, not cars and unlimited speed limits in Germany that surely do not apply to Commercial vehiles or towing outfits.
Out of interest.
As for "There is a self-commitment within the European car industry to limit the top speed to 250km/h even though the car may be capable of higher speeds."
Why do so many cars have much higher top speeds then, including German ones ?
Out of interest.
As for "There is a self-commitment within the European car industry to limit the top speed to 250km/h even though the car may be capable of higher speeds."
Why do so many cars have much higher top speeds then, including German ones ?
Unless provisions have been made in the regulations to cover specifics, both cars and trailers (caravans) must comply with the same rules and laws. As far as technical provisions are concerned, they are both treated the same, as road vehicles.
If, as you say, vehicles must be technically approved for use at the maximum allowable speeds anywhere within Europe, then cars and vans capable of very high speeds would have to be approved to their technical limit (to cover the unlimited conditions in Germany), and all other vehicles (trucks, trailers, caravans, etc.) to cover the respective highest speed limit applicable in any of the European countries (for caravans that would be 130km/h for France).
I think you will find that where top speeds over 250km/h are quoted, then these are the maximum speeds that would be achievable without the electronic governors that the manufacturers voluntarily fit.
If, as you say, vehicles must be technically approved for use at the maximum allowable speeds anywhere within Europe, then cars and vans capable of very high speeds would have to be approved to their technical limit (to cover the unlimited conditions in Germany), and all other vehicles (trucks, trailers, caravans, etc.) to cover the respective highest speed limit applicable in any of the European countries (for caravans that would be 130km/h for France).
I think you will find that where top speeds over 250km/h are quoted, then these are the maximum speeds that would be achievable without the electronic governors that the manufacturers voluntarily fit.
I emailed somebody who I thought might have an answer Lutz and as posted their answer was kind of third hand.
Quite frankly I don't give a fig about Euro babble rules as long as I'm legal the company build vehicles and their designers have someone who checks out the legal side so that when they go to the Ministry place at Guildford they are road legal.
Re - "I think you will find that where top speeds over 250km/h are quoted, then these are the maximum speeds that would be achievable without the electronic governors that the manufacturers voluntarily fit."
You are very wrong, I've yet to come across say an Aston, Cayenne, TVR, Bristol or many others that will only do 155mpgh due to a limiter but may be they do in Germany!
Quite frankly I don't give a fig about Euro babble rules as long as I'm legal the company build vehicles and their designers have someone who checks out the legal side so that when they go to the Ministry place at Guildford they are road legal.
Re - "I think you will find that where top speeds over 250km/h are quoted, then these are the maximum speeds that would be achievable without the electronic governors that the manufacturers voluntarily fit."
You are very wrong, I've yet to come across say an Aston, Cayenne, TVR, Bristol or many others that will only do 155mpgh due to a limiter but may be they do in Germany!
I am getting a little bit lost in the 'fog' here.
Lutz has very kindly posted the response he received from ALKO which to my mind clears us from guilt in exceeding the 60mph limit while in France. However, that does not in my opinion give us all the opportunity to throw our sense out of the window and drive like maniacs as soon as we cross the channel.
All the caravan organisations in the UK have agreed that 60 mph is probably a good ball park for a maximum speed with a hefty trailer on the back, and as far as I am concerned that stands wherever you may be. I still feel it is better to be a bit slower and arrive safely, rather than in the back of a hearse. However, there are some idiots who leave travelling back to the Channel ports to the last minute and think that doing 80 mph will be fine. I don't care that they kill themselves, it is the innocents they always wish to take with them that upset me.
There will always be a difference between legal, and sensible. Follow the latter,. and live long and happy.
Lutz has very kindly posted the response he received from ALKO which to my mind clears us from guilt in exceeding the 60mph limit while in France. However, that does not in my opinion give us all the opportunity to throw our sense out of the window and drive like maniacs as soon as we cross the channel.
All the caravan organisations in the UK have agreed that 60 mph is probably a good ball park for a maximum speed with a hefty trailer on the back, and as far as I am concerned that stands wherever you may be. I still feel it is better to be a bit slower and arrive safely, rather than in the back of a hearse. However, there are some idiots who leave travelling back to the Channel ports to the last minute and think that doing 80 mph will be fine. I don't care that they kill themselves, it is the innocents they always wish to take with them that upset me.
There will always be a difference between legal, and sensible. Follow the latter,. and live long and happy.
Getting back to the point, you were mentioning, quote "...that under some sort of EEC regulation or the manufacturer would be guilty of some sort restrictive practice". All I was saying that I don't know of such a regulation nor, going by the practice of at least some manufacturers to limit technically allowable speeds below the actual legal speed limit, are there any indications that this is the case.
I think we all agree on that S L and 80 mph with caravan behind is not my idea of easy safe driving. The funny thing is over the years in the main the high speed caravanners we've seen whilst caravanning and working in the main are not Brits and not heading for channel ports.
One could be very parochial and mention the old cliche 'If you are not British, old boy, then terribly sorry, but you have quite got it'.
Don't know if it has any value anymore, at least not inside the UK, but still is notable overseas. God bless the Empire, and all who sail in her.
Don't know if it has any value anymore, at least not inside the UK, but still is notable overseas. God bless the Empire, and all who sail in her.
Ah well, Lutz maybe Ill just stick to my normal 100/110 KPH, and put the chips back in the bag!! LOL
JimF
I doubt whether high speed caravanners, whether Brits or wherever they come from, really care whether what they are doing is legal and/or safe. They just want to get to their destination in the shortest possible time, regardless.
anyway, beware owners of german caravans towing through france.
" Apparently" the standard fit tyres on newer german caravans
may fall foul of french laws!
I read that in a caravan mag a few weeks back, could even be PC.
it had something to do with speed ratings? although i am unsure
of exactly what, but it could be something to do with this 100km
max speed and the tyres are therefore not rated to the 130kph
required under french law?
Although from reading these posts, i am left a little confused.
" Apparently" the standard fit tyres on newer german caravans
may fall foul of french laws!
I read that in a caravan mag a few weeks back, could even be PC.
it had something to do with speed ratings? although i am unsure
of exactly what, but it could be something to do with this 100km
max speed and the tyres are therefore not rated to the 130kph
required under french law?
Although from reading these posts, i am left a little confused.
Lutz, you are absolutely right. But in the interest of injection of humour, it has to be the fault of 'jonnie foreigner'. After all after an evening of 2 British teams playing crap football, what else can we use as an excuse?
Mind you what a parody? The Scots are behind their manager, yet the team lost, the English wish to crucify theirs, yet the team won. What a wonderful world it is.
Mind you what a parody? The Scots are behind their manager, yet the team lost, the English wish to crucify theirs, yet the team won. What a wonderful world it is.
Lutz may be I should have made it clearer that iwa s not posting re defintive law. I thought I had covere d that with "sort of 3rd hand".
I could see no reason to doubt that a chassis builder and caravan manufacturer building to a standard that could cope with the maximum tow limit in Europe.
Your post re the 250KPH limit seems to state that it is fact, that is not the case!
Some manufacturers electronically limit their cars top speed and plenty do not.
For very many years BMW only quoted a speed bikes have been capable of and not a top speed, I understand this was due to some German regulations.
Some current BMW cars in the UK have a quoted top speed of 155 mph but they have much higher top speeds without having a limiter tampered with.
Plenty of other cars will exceed 155 mph from the showroom as well.
Maybe these limiters are not fitted to cars for the UK market. Besides, it is only a voluntary agreement and some manufacturers may have decided, for marketing reasons, not to abide by it.
My car has a limiter at 180km/h and I am pretty sure that it was a standard fitting for all markets throughout the world (mainly because it was a model built primarily for the US market, to prevent owners from exceeding their speed limits too excessively).
Sorry to hear you're confused, Giovanni, but the lowest speed rating on any caravan tyre that I am aware of is an 'R' rating, which is good for 170km/h, well in excess of the 130km/h French speed limit.
I don't know where the caravan mag that you read got their information from but I strongly suspect that someone hadn't done their homework properly.
The response from AlKo makes it quite clear that, in the case of caravans, the brakes are the determining factor for maximum safe speed, not the tyres.
I don't know where the caravan mag that you read got their information from but I strongly suspect that someone hadn't done their homework properly.
The response from AlKo makes it quite clear that, in the case of caravans, the brakes are the determining factor for maximum safe speed, not the tyres.
Lutz...
FOUND IT. In caravan april 2007, pg 80.
Under are my tyres legal.
Also in my caravan club handbook 2007/8, on page 636 again they
make mention of it. in both they make mention of load index and
speed rating for use in other countries.
Seems strange to do this, if caravan tyres are ALL rated to
at least 170kmh?
So you can see why i am confused..
FOUND IT. In caravan april 2007, pg 80.
Under are my tyres legal.
Also in my caravan club handbook 2007/8, on page 636 again they
make mention of it. in both they make mention of load index and
speed rating for use in other countries.
Seems strange to do this, if caravan tyres are ALL rated to
at least 170kmh?
So you can see why i am confused..
Maybe there are some retreaded tyres on the market which don't have an 'R' speed rating but on the whole I would expect the load index to be the main issue to have to check whether you are legal or not.
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