Speed limits in France?

[Cerbera]

Anyone know what the towing speed limits are in France? Don't want to fall foul of Les Flics!

 

[Lutz]

So long as the gross train weight does not exceed 3.5 tonnes, the French don't differentiate between cars and cars towing caravans, so it's 130km/h on autoroutes (110km/h in the rain), 110km/h on roads with a central divide (100km/h in the rain) and 90km/h all other roads outside built-up areas (80km/h in the rain).

If the gross train weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes, the speed limits are 110km/h, 100km/h, 80km/h, respectively.

For full details from the official website see: Code de la Route - Limitations de vitesse

 

[Guest]

Lutz is absolutely correct, however I would suggest that realism should accompany these. In theory one can legally tow a caravan at 80 mph, but would you really wish to? You are pulling a trailer that weighs probably around 1.5 tons and the only breaking system is the overide operated mechanism. Yes, it works, but.... The French Police can also decide if you are driving, in their opinon, dangerously and possibly fine you for that.

I would suggest that one should follow similar speed limits to those familiar to us all here in the UK. You will get to your destination just as quick. I find 65 mph a pretty good average.

 

[Cerbera]

Thanks for that. The Rangey and the Senator top 3.5 tonnes laden easily so will adjust accordingly.

I have been known on a private stretch of flat road coincidentally called the M5 to touch 70mph when overtaking with no ill effects, so at least I will be legal in France then.

 

[Lutz]

The maximum design speed for AlKo chassis is 100km/h. I understand that some UK caravan manufacturers have chosen to accept responsibility for higher maximum speeds. However, unless this is explictly stated in the owner's handbook or other documentation is provided, you may have a problem with your insurance if you have an accident and the cause was found to be directly attributable to speeding in excess of 100km/h.

 

[Guest]

While I am sure Lutz's comments are correct I have not found any corroborating evidence in any of the literature I have received from ALKO. Neither has the manufacturer of my van indicated anywhere any maximum speed for the outfit. The only advice I have received is...to obey local speed limits.

Now if my van had a plate somewhere on it stating the maximum speed then I could happily accept the issue, but it doesn't so where does that leave one in terms of liability I wonder? There can be a restriction due to weight, I accept, but I have yet to see anything on mainstream vans.

Am I missing something?

 

[Lutz]

This may be a serious omission on the part of UK caravan manufacturers. A while ago someone in this forum said that they had found a note in, I think it was a Bailey's handbook, that their caravans are approved up to 81mph. Without such a note, they may be assuming UK speed limits as being the technical maximum, but I would be a little wary about going 130km/h (81mph). Caravan brakes are relatively crude and not really designed for such speeds. Certainly, German insurance companies point out to their policyholders that insurance coverage may be lost at speeds over 100km/h, even though the French legal speed limit may not have been exceeded. Knowing what insurance companies are like all over the world, they like to jump at any opportunity not to have to cough up with the dough.

 

[Lutz]

Just to add another note.

Don't forget that some cars, especially 4x4's, allow towloads well in excess of the kerbweight of the towcar. I shudder to think of the safety of such an outfit at 130km/h, even though it may be perfectly legal. One can't expect the French to differentiate between weight ratios in their speed limits - they already have some of the most diversified speed limit regulations in the whole of Europe.

 

[Guest]

I don't think one can just highlight UK manufacturers for this 'omission'. My own van is from a major German registered manufacturer, although Dutch owned, and has no warnings in this respect.

If Lutz is correct in his assertion then all the main manufacturers are making a serious error in the specifications of their products and could be liable under EU law, so I have to state that at this time, I remain unconvinced.

However, at the end of the day I think we all agree that towing a trailer is something that should not be taken lightly and caution is always a benefit. Slower speeds undoubtedly improve the safety margins.

 

[Lutz]

Maybe my reply was interpreted as suggesting that only UK caravan manufacturers were not warning owners of the potential pitfall. However, it is probably true of Continentals, too. At any rate, the German Auto Club, ADAC, alert owners of restrictive practice by (at least some) insurance companies in such cases. I don't have any first-hand experience myself, so I can't comment further, but I am sure that they wouldn't mention it without similar incidents having been reported.

 

[Guest]

I would still appreciate knowing the whereabouts of the info from ALKO on the restrictions on the maximum speed of their chassis. I have speed restrictions on the tyres of my van but that is about it, as far as I can see. I also have no knowledge of either the CC or the C&CC or even PC Magazine making any comment on this. If it is the case then we should all be made aware of it so we can drive accordingly.

 

[Lutz]

I have just written an email to the AlKo Technical Centre and asked them to comment. I'll let you know what they say as soon as I get their reply.

 

[Guest]

Thank you. Look forward to seeing the response.

 

[cris_408518]

As posted before, our old Bailey Senator with Alko T/A chassis and the Senator Range at that time that included Alko S/A chassis had a maximum top speed of 81mph from Bailey.

I can't imagine that Bailey would advise on a top speed higher than Alko.

 

[rob_jax]

Hi,

I've just looked in my Hymer / Eriba owners manual - and there is a very specific statement that the ALKO chassis has been tested and "approved for use" at speeds up to 100 kph - and because of that, the caravan manufacturer cannot recommend towing at higher speeds.

Robert

 

[Guest]

I suggest we wait until Lutz has received a response from ALKO. If there is indeed a speed restriction of 60 mph then I suspect a good few of us may need to re-appraise our driving habits abroad.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

burstner, ventana 500s, uk spec. definatly states 100kph max.

 

[John_Boy]

What has been missed out from above posts is that if your van is shod with standard issue Avon caravan tyres they are rated for a maximum speed of 81mph, to put this into context my car tyres are rated for in excess of 140 mph, in their lifetime they will probably never have to perfrom at their optimum performance.

 

[cris_408518]

I've had the Bailey page emailed to me.

I beleive the Alko Chassis has the Euro Axle

Models included on Page 66

Pageant Majestic

Pageant Cabriolet

Pageant Auvergne

Pageant Champagne

Pageant Moselle

and

Senator Range

Bailey's NOTES : "The maximum towing speed at maximum weight for all models is 81mph (130km/h)."

On the same page tyre pressurs are given for towing at two speeds 100kph / 62.5mph and 130kph / 81mph.

Page 65 apparently has the same for the smaller models!

Any doubters, I can email the scanned page if you want!

 

[Lutz]

I don't think anybody is doubting the details you're quoting out of Bailey's handbook but there is a question of whether those responsible at Bailey are really fully aware of what they are allowing if it is true that AlKo only approve their chassis up to 100km/h. They would potentially be accepting an additional risk, either without thinking or maybe they do provide additional technical features on their products which would justify higher speeds.

Having said that, I'm surprised at John_Boy's statement that Avon caravan tyres are only rated for a maximum speed of 81mph. As far as I am aware, the lowest speed rating is an N rating (=140km/h; =87mph) but all caravan tyres that I have seen at least have an R rating (=170km/h; =106mph). Therefore, if John_Boy is correct, Avon would be selling factory seconds to the caravan industry.

 

[Guest]

As already mentioned, let us get ALKO's official input before we all get hot and bothered. If they do not reply within a reasonable time then we can 'flood' their Web page with the same question.

 

[Cerbera]

What have I started!!

A seemimgly innocent post about tooling along in France has opened a whole can of worms - for the best as it happens.

I would be interested to know how fast Bailey reckon my 2001 California can safely go. Even behind a well planted Range Rover (you really can forget it's there) it still begins to want to wag it's tail at 65mph downhill (okay no stabiliser fitted)

 

[Lutz]

I have just received a reply from AlKo regarding the approved maximum technical design speed of their chassis:

All current chassis are designed and approved for speeds up to 140km/h. However, this is only an advisory to the caravan manufacturers and does not apply to some older models. For a definitive answer on these, one should contact AlKo, giving details of the build year and the identification on the inside face of the backplate of the brakes.

For technical reasons beyond AlKo's control, the caravan manufacturer may apply other restrictions.

So long as the manufacturer does not specifically define a lower approved speed by special mention in the owner's handbook, one can therefore safely assume that current caravans with AlKo chassis are OK for the French speed limit.

I have no reason to doubt that the same will probably apply to caravans with chassis other than AlKo but one should check on a case-by-case basis just to be safe.

 

[cris_408518]

I have been told that the chassis should be capable of the maximum speed limit in Europe with an added safey % above that under some sort of EEC regulation or the manufacturer would be guilty of some sort restrictive practice.

I've no idea on where that comes from exactly but it would be rather stupid not to produce a chassis capable of the maximum speed limit as no doubt legal action could be taken should someone crash due to the chassis failing at a legal limit.

 

[JimF]

I have just received a reply from AlKo regarding the approved maximum technical design speed of their chassis:

All current chassis are designed and approved for speeds up to 140km/h. However, this is only an advisory to the caravan manufacturers and does not apply to some older models. For a definitive answer on these, one should contact AlKo, giving details of the build year and the identification on the inside face of the backplate of the brakes.

For technical reasons beyond AlKo's control, the caravan manufacturer may apply other restrictions.

So long as the manufacturer does not specifically define a lower approved speed by special mention in the owner's handbook, one can therefore safely assume that current caravans with AlKo chassis are OK for the French speed limit.

I have no reason to doubt that the same will probably apply to caravans with chassis other than AlKo but one should check on a case-by-case basis just to be safe.

Wow 140 KPH!!, where's the tuning chips!!