Speeders Beware

[Jules_ht]

Looks like Bristol knows how to attract the Welsh.
Mel

As a Welshman living in Bristol I feel qualified to chip in here

The whole of Bristol pretty much has been turned into a hotch potch of 20 zones mixed in with 30s. You turn on to one road and it's 30. Drive for a bit, turn onto another and it's 20. No-one ever knows quite what they are on and it's causing chaos.

Take the A38 Gloucester Road- 30. Turn right onto Wessex Avenue (across a pedestrian crossing) and it's 20 (as indicated by a tiny little sign literally just as you go through the junction and are busy watching the kids waiting at the side of the road) https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4923062,-2.5836624,3a,75y,123.29h,66.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDVLsDbuBBJOExPlVRw_pWg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

What you don't get from that street view is the steepness of Wessex Ave- it really is a sharp downwards incline. So you go all the way down, and if you missed the tiny little 20 you're speeding all the way (sticking to 30, which is what is has been since the stone age). At the bottom, just in front of the great big 30 sign (where it reverts to 30 again for the next road) https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4923062,-2.5836624,3a,75y,123.29h,66.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDVLsDbuBBJOExPlVRw_pWg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
the police have got a real habit of sitting with a camera van. Not cricket really to stick a camera van just before a great big 30 sign on a road with very poor signs to indicate it's a 20. It's not addressing dangerous behaviour, it's taking the mickey out of people trying their best.

The road I live on, not far from there, is a proper side street. it does have 20 plastered all over it (including painted on the road surface in figures as big as a car). However, it is a rat run and I kid you not every single weekday morning from 07:00 to 08:45 and every single weekday evening from 17:00-18:00, cars are bombing up and down it at 60+ (just as I'm getting my 4 yr old in and out of the car). Every now and then the Police send a camera van, who sits there at the top of the road from 11:00 until 15:00 whilst the area is like a ghost town, presumably eating doughnuts. Come on, don't catch the chap accidentally doing 22 because they didn't spot the signs, get the idiots flying down at warp speed on a daily basis! Bang bang bang bang - 10 tickets in one week (one for every day both directions), and let's see how quickly everyone bicycles down it because their license is in the bin.

Don't even get me started on the residents parking (that every single councillor in Bristol voted against but were ignored by the mayor, and massive petitions were raised against)....

 

[emmerson]

If police are to operate zero policy,how many drivers can tell the difference between 30 and 31? This means that drivers will have to constantly watch their speedo. Who's going to watch the road?

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

I try and use my cruise control for all the limits, including 20, but with heavy slower traffic that's not always possible. I did once try using the speed limiter control, but that doesn't hold the speed back going downhill and I nearly got caught going over speed.

 

[Jules_ht]

I try and use my cruise control for all the limits, including 20, but with heavy slower traffic that's not always possible. I did once try using the speed limiter control, but that doesn't hold the speed back going downhill and I nearly got caught going over speed.

Cruise on many (majority?) makes doesn't operate below 30.

For me the point is whether zero tolerance is a genuine attempt at improving road safety, or a way to get revenue up or hit targets. If, as I suspect, it's the latter, then I'd suggest the forces are acting in a misdirected manner. Why not address the real issues that affect users of the roads in question instesd?

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

I try and use my cruise control for all the limits, including 20, but with heavy slower traffic that's not always possible. I did once try using the speed limiter control, but that doesn't hold the speed back going downhill and I nearly got caught going over speed.

Cruise on many (majority?) makes doesn't operate below 30.

It certainly works at 20 mph on my Astra, hence why I quoted it. When I had a Vectra the User Manual said it didn't work below 30, but on the odd occasion I tried it at 20 it did seem to work OK.

 

[M5WJF]

Well, I hope they don't start policing speeds under 10mph, as the Speedometer in my 1976 VW doesn't move until its faster than 10mph, the dial starts at 10mph, there's no 0mph to indicate.

Not used a Sat Nav in the VW since I replaced the Speedometer Cable, so I'm unsure how accurate the Speedometer measures speed, however, before it finally snapped and had to be replaced, I tried to maintain a steady 56mph for economy on a long run without a Sat Nav, and my friend driving an identical vehicle behind me said I was doing 65mph all the way.

So...who is the 10% plus 2mph for exactly?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Well, I hope they don't start policing speeds under 10mph, as the Speedometer in my 1976 VW doesn't move until its faster than 10mph, the dial starts at 10mph, there's no 0mph to indicate.

Not used a Sat Nav in the VW since I replaced the Speedometer Cable, so I'm unsure how accurate the Speedometer measures speed, however, before it finally snapped and had to be replaced, I tried to maintain a steady 56mph for economy on a long run without a Sat Nav, and my friend driving an identical vehicle behind me said I was doing 65mph all the way.

So...who is the 10% plus 2mph for exactly?

The police and prosecutors!

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Well, I hope they don't start policing speeds under 10mph, as the Speedometer in my 1976 VW doesn't move until its faster than 10mph, the dial starts at 10mph, there's no 0mph to indicate.

Not used a Sat Nav in the VW since I replaced the Speedometer Cable, so I'm unsure how accurate the Speedometer measures speed, however, before it finally snapped and had to be replaced, I tried to maintain a steady 56mph for economy on a long run without a Sat Nav, and my friend driving an identical vehicle behind me said I was doing 65mph all the way.

So...who is the 10% plus 2mph for exactly?

yeah I'm the same got an old motorbike a 1951 Ariel 350cc the speedo starts at 10mph and goes to 90mph dont know why be lucky to get 70mph down hill with a tornado behind it, the point is from 20mph the needle starts to waver the faster it goes the more it wavers at balls out [around 60mph] the speed could be anything from 50 to 65mph it moves that much, the new radar speed equipment may be accurate to less than 1mph but a 64 year old speedo's not.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Well, I hope they don't start policing speeds under 10mph, as the Speedometer in my 1976 VW doesn't move until its faster than 10mph, the dial starts at 10mph, there's no 0mph to indicate.

Not used a Sat Nav in the VW since I replaced the Speedometer Cable, so I'm unsure how accurate the Speedometer measures speed, however, before it finally snapped and had to be replaced, I tried to maintain a steady 56mph for economy on a long run without a Sat Nav, and my friend driving an identical vehicle behind me said I was doing 65mph all the way.

So...who is the 10% plus 2mph for exactly?

yeah I'm the same got an old motorbike a 1951 Ariel 350cc the speedo starts at 10mph and goes to 90mph dont know why be lucky to get 70mph down hill with a tornado behind it, the point is from 20mph the needle starts to waver the faster it goes the more it wavers at balls out [around 60mph] the speed could be anything from 50 to 65mph it moves that much, the new radar speed equipment may be accurate to less than 1mph but a 64 year old speedo's not.

It is the drivers responsibility to ensure they do not speed. If you are caught speeding, you cannot mitigate the offence by blaming a faulty speedometer. The driver is also responsible for ensuring the vehicle is roadworthy, and a speedometer that under reads the vehicles actual speed is faulty.

 

[Dustydog]

What happened to the defence of "Mitigating circumstances"?

 

[colin-yorkshire]

It is the drivers responsibility to ensure they do not speed. If you are caught speeding, you cannot mitigate the offence by blaming a faulty speedometer. The driver is also responsible for ensuring the vehicle is roadworthy, and a speedometer that under reads the vehicles actual speed is faulty.

it's NOT a faulty speedometer John, it's original, they were like that new in 1951.
it doesn't even have lights that work without the engine running. cos there's no battery on it.
in a way it is funny because when new legislation comes in sometimes it is retrospective and sometimes it's not.
I was watching one of those cop programs the other day, they pulled an old guy in a car he had from new, for not wearing a seat belt,, in a car that was never fitted with them, go figure. how would one stand then going back even further into the thirties they never had speedometers fitted, :woohoo: :woohoo:

 

[Woodentop]

Gets me that the legislators never seem to check history.

Many years ago the TRRL (Transport and Road Research Laboratory as was then) did some checks on a piece of dual carriageway (near Reading?) that was open road but had a 30mph limit. The average speed of vehicles over a defined period of weeks was 43mph. They then increased the limit to 40mph and did the same checks over a similar period. Result? Average speed 38mph.

Just goes to show that if you get the figures right people will comply. Given that the 70mph motorway limit was imposed nearly 50 years ago when road surfaces and vehicle construction were very different, it would be interesting to see how compliance would change if they increased the limit to 80mph. Most of Europe has a 130Kph (81mph) motorway limit so why can't we?

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi Woodentop. it has been said before the law is an Ass and the people that make the laws Donkeys.
for instance it is illegal to use a mobile phone while driving, as it is distracting, but listening to loud music and singing along while holding a conversation with a passenger isn't, you can also talk on a CB radio while holding the mike, because it is a two way radio and not covered by the same law. and yes there have been court cases over it.and been thrown out due to this technicality,
also it is illegal to eat a mars bar while driving as you have to remove one hand from the wheel to eat it, however you can, change gear, adjust the mirror ,wind the window up and down, fiddle with the radio, open the sun roof, smoke while driving [for the moment] wipe the sweat off your forehead, and scratch your whatever, all one handed perfectly legally. makes you wonder if these laws were even thought through before implimenting does it not.

regarding the max speed limit, if you go back into history, you will find the imposed maximum was not because of the road surface, but because of the oil crisis, think it was 1974 ish, where the limit was introduced to save fuel and oil reserves , when the crisis was over the ministry of transport noticed a decline in fatal accidents while the speed limit was in force, so instead of removing it, it was made permanent.
actually in these modern times with seat belts air bags and stronger cars with crumple zones the continued limit makes little sense, but no one in authority will admit that,

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Have you noticed on the TV police programmes where police drivers are in a chase driving at high speed with one hand on the steering wheel and the other hand holding the button in on their radio to give a commentary of where they are? hmy:

 

[Woodentop]

hi Woodentop. it has been said before the law is an Ass and the people that make the laws Donkeys.
for instance it is illegal to use a mobile phone while driving, as it is distracting, but listening to loud music and singing along while holding a conversation with a passenger isn't, you can also talk on a CB radio while holding the mike, because it is a two way radio and not covered by the same law. and yes there have been court cases over it.and been thrown out due to this technicality,
also it is illegal to eat a mars bar while driving as you have to remove one hand from the wheel to eat it, however you can, change gear, adjust the mirror ,wind the window up and down, fiddle with the radio, open the sun roof, smoke while driving [for the moment] wipe the sweat off your forehead, and scratch your whatever, all one handed perfectly legally. makes you wonder if these laws were even thought through before implimenting does it not.

regarding the max speed limit, if you go back into history, you will find the imposed maximum was not because of the road surface, but because of the oil crisis, think it was 1974 ish, where the limit was introduced to save fuel and oil reserves , when the crisis was over the ministry of transport noticed a decline in fatal accidents while the speed limit was in force, so instead of removing it, it was made permanent.
actually in these modern times with seat belts air bags and stronger cars with crumple zones the continued limit makes little sense, but no one in authority will admit that,

Er, no. The 70mph limit was introduced in 1966 (I did look it up before my original post) which was reduced to 50mph at the time of the oil crisis.

 

[M5WJF]

Well the proposed reduction in speed limit from 60mph on rural roads only makes sense if it is reduced to 25mph, any other speed is a compromise on the movement of people, and the inevitable deaths due to collisions between vehicles, and also roadside furniture.

The arbitrary figure muted is 50mph, which is the maximum speed I drive my VW Camper anyway, as I don't want to cook it. Invariably my vehicle has its own terminal velocity, whatever angle the throttle is depressed, and you just have to adjust your throttle to the speed rather than adjust your speed using the throttle, otherwise increased fuel consumption is the only result.

I'll admit I will try to maintain 40mph on inclines, as a sop to following traffic, but beyond that it is the vehicle and road that decides what speed I'm doing, not me, unless there's a limit lower than 50mph obviously.

Still not used a Sat Nav in the Camper yet, since replacing the speedo cable, so cannot report on the correlation between GPS and a design of speed measurement that first appeared in the early 50's, and was still being manufactured in 1979 in Germany, and 2014 in Brazil.

Ho hum, it seems common sense in Policing traffic is a matter of opinion.

 

[Raywood]

The problem with rural roads is they all vary so a blanket speed limit is never going to be right for all roads and trying to produce a suitable one for individual roads would be too complicated and confusing. A blanket figure of 25 would be far too low for most and would cause hold ups and polution. I am afraid the idea is not perfect but you simply have to trust drivers to drive at the appropriate speed and accept that not all will..