Speeding Cravanners.......

[craigmurray]

I dont know if anyone else has noticed but with caravanning becoming more and more popular, people (i presume newbies) seem to find it ok to travel up the motorway at 70mph maybe even more? I dread to think what would happen if they got into a snake or had to brake suddenly? im quite happy to sit at 55 - 60mph when on the motorway and make sure i get there in one piece, even taking to sitting behind an artic lorry if the roads are busy. Also people seem to indicate and just pull out to over take (without what seems to be looking in their wing mirrors) this to me gives a bad name to caravanners and gives top gear another excuse to have a go or burn or smash another van....

any thoughts????

craig

 

[Chaps]

You're right Craig, loads of people flount the law and drive as though their vans aren't there. We actually find it more relaxing driving with the caravan on the back as we just accept that our journey will take longer and stick to the legal limit. Better to arrive late than not at all.

 

[craigmurray]

Totally agree with you clare and rob to many people leave it to the last minute to leave for their journey and expect to get there the same time as they would if they didnt have the van on the back. The travelling is part of the enjoyment of the trip and you see things you wouldnt normally see when you are travelling at a safe law abiding speed.

 

[RogerL]

For most of my 20+ years of caravanning I used to comment to non-caravanners that we were the most law-abiding group of road users, as far as speed limits go. I'd travel at the limit for trailers and never get overtaken by another one.

But some years now, I've noticed that it's no longer true - more and more often I'm overtaken by caravanners, not gradually but at a great rate of knots which must be in the high 70's.

What's the rush - it's a LEISURE activity, isn't it?

 

[craigmurray]

i wouldnt feel safe doing 70 +mph especially when i have got the family in the car, cars and caravans are materialistic but lives arent whether it be yours and your loved ones or the poor people you may hurt when you outfit flips over and the contents are strewn all over the road...

 

[weejock]

Graig I am not going to defend speeders but how accutate is your speedo.

Last year at Tenby services an older Yorkshire man came upto me and said "my you were travelling at a fair lick then". We then proceded to share a cigarette and have a blether. I knew I was doing 60, my speedo said 61, sat nav 60 and as I was on cruise I doubt if I was ever much out of this range. He said he was doing 55 as I "flew" past him. Any way after a bit of conflab we reckoned his speedo to be about 4mph out.

 

[ProfJohnL]

i wouldnt feel safe doing 70 +mph especially when i have got the family in the car, cars and caravans are materialistic but lives arent whether it be yours and your loved ones or the poor people you may hurt when you outfit flips over and the contents are strewn all over the road...

Hello All

I fully agree that is sensible to obey speed limits, and I cannot agree with anyone that deliberately disregards them. That is a law and should be obeyed ( .......waits for the torrents of alternative views). I do not condone speeding.

However speeding and safety are not necessarily linked very closely. Whilst good sense tells us that as speed increases so do the risks, the point at which something becomes unsafe, from a mechanical point of view, does not necessarily coincide with an arbitrary legal speed limit.

Consider that in some parts of the continent the towing limit is 70 or more. Here in the UK the max. speed for towed caravans is 60mph on motorways and dual carriage ways. So an outfit that is 'safe' at 70 on the continent, is it automatically unsafe at 70 here in the UK? Illegal yes, but not necessarily unsafe from a mechanical perspective.

There are many factors that will determine if an out fit is safe or not, and whilst one of them is speed. So is the experience and ability of the driver. The same outfit driven by an experienced driver at 70mph (where allowed) may be as safe as the same outfit driven an inexperienced driver at say 50mph.

There are some outfits that tow very well and are capable of being driven safely at 70+mph (where allowed) and others that have difficulties at only 50.

 

[MikeyW]

I have been caravanning for only 18 months now and I have always kept to the safe limit of 60mph max on motorways and seen some crazy drivers passing me as though I am stopped. A lot of these have been older drivers with vans, that look pre war, bouncing around behind them. I think most people new to towing caravans would be nervous and very aware of their speed, I know I was to start, so I don't think Craig's presumption of it being "newbies" is very justified.

Mikey

 

[RogerP]

I was travelling back from Manchester last week on the M6 and saw in front of me an outfit in the 3rd lane (i.e fast lane) and no reason for it.

I was travelling at full motorway speeds (read that as you will) and it took me a good 3-4 miles to catch up.

When I finally caught up the van was wagging its tail like mad , the set up looked totally wrong to me.

The scary thing was , it was a family (couple of young kids in the back) and the guy driving looked like he was on a mission. He was totally oblivious to his surroundings.

But its never the ones who dont give a stuff that get caught

up in accidents.

 

[RogerP]

I was travelling back from Manchester last week on the M6 and saw in front of me an outfit in the 3rd lane (i.e fast lane) and no reason for it.

I was travelling at full motorway speeds (read that as you will) and it took me a good 3-4 miles to catch up.

When I finally caught up the van was wagging its tail like mad , the set up looked totally wrong to me.

The scary thing was , it was a family (couple of young kids in the back) and the guy driving looked like he was on a mission. He was totally oblivious to his surroundings.

But its never the ones who dont give a stuff that get caught

up in accidents.

 

[RogerP]

Appologies for the double post , PC is playing up!!!

just to add that as a relative newbie i was very nervous and indeed probably more alert when towing as a result.

I also agree that the journey is part of the holiday and it doesn't matter how long it takes to get there , I'm truely amased at the sights we see now that in the past were just a blurr.

 

[ShadySadie]

My tow car will tow our large caravan up dual carriageway and motorway hills at 60 or 70 mph and never slow. I set cruise at 62mph in the UK and that is 60mph.

Forget what others do and concentrate on your outfit rather than what others do or might be doing.

I've towed caravans in France at 80mph and with current outfit at 70mph depending on weather and traffic conditions.

I had two UK caravans passing me coming up through France on my last trip, they picked up speed towards autoroute hills to try and maintain progress on the hills only for me to sail past at cruise controlled 70mph and then they would pass me agan on the level approaching the next hill.

I tow as I see fit but have noticed many times that male caravanners still have to get past me or make untoward comments at times at fuel stops and sites. Quite frankly my dears I don't give a damn about what others do or think as long as I continue with a clean driving slate

 

[cooky1]

I have found that in France the French caravanners tend to drive well within the speed limits, but some of the Dutch tow very fast. I don't try to keep up with anyone, but tow at a speed that I think is suitable for the conditions.

Graeme.

 

[ShadySadie]

As the towing speed limit on the autoroute is 81mph in the dry many do keep withing the limit, a of outfits do not have the ability to break the limit.

Caravanning for over 20 years in France a lot of Dutch, Germans and Scandinavians tow at speed and Brits to. But I've seen plenty of high speed french tuggers, and had them pass at over 81mph. Also far to many French holiday trailer outfits often seem to drive as though they have no idea that they have anything attached to the tow ball.

 

[Michael_5123947]

But if you saw the van in the third lane, aren't they breaking the law? Thought you could only go on fast lane on a two lane dual carriageway or m'way. Where is plod when you need him!

 

[RogerL]

It only applies to motorways.

Right hand lane (don't call it fast lane) is banned to towing vehicles on motorways with three or more running lanes - this ban doesn't apply if there are two running lanes plus directional lanes (slip lanes) nor to dual carriageways even if they have three or more lanes.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Posted this as a comment and it should have been a reply

Hello All

I fully agree that is sensible to obey speed limits, and I cannot agree with anyone that deliberately disregards them. That is a law and should be obeyed ( .......waits for the torrents of alternative views). I do not condone speeding.

However speeding and safety are not necessarily linked very closely. Whilst good sense tells us that as speed increases so do the risks, the point at which something becomes unsafe, from a mechanical point of view, does not necessarily coincide with an arbitrary legal speed limit.

Consider that in some parts of the continent the towing limit is 70 or more. Here in the UK the max. speed for towed caravans is 60mph on motorways and dual carriage ways. So an outfit that is 'safe' at 70 on the continent, is it automatically unsafe at 70 here in the UK? Illegal yes, but not necessarily unsafe from a mechanical perspective.

There are many factors that will determine if an out fit is safe or not, and whilst one of them is speed. So is the experience and ability of the driver. The same outfit driven by an experienced driver at 70mph (where allowed) may be as safe as the same outfit driven an inexperienced driver at say 50mph.

There are some outfits that tow very well and are capable of being driven safely at 70+mph (where allowed) and others that have difficulties at only 50.

 

[ScouseIan]

Great post John L

Most people don't see the distinction between 'illegal' and 'safe'.

I only just got a 'van; a pageant provence. Towing with a Phaeton, thats only 62%. Was really surprised on first time out to the lakes. Car didn't even know it was there and I felt right safe.

My sat-nav showed that my speedo is 6mph out so I set to 68 mph which was a true 62 (100kmh). Yes I know that is 2 mph over but I really did feel safe.

When I go to France this year does anybody think I will be ok at a true 70mph (because of the 62% match) or slow down (because I'm a newbie).

And by the way Craig, Top Gear is very funny these days. Its all just an entertainment programme where they say things they don't really mean. Don't take them seriously. The real problem is that other people watch it and take it really seriously, believing that all we do on a site is have a cup of tea and 'empty the poo'.

 

[cooky1]

IAN, I don't think anyone on here is going to tell you it is OK to do 70mph in France, just in case anything was to happen at that speed which caused an accident.

Only you can decide what you think is safe.

Graeme.

 

[seth1]

by my way of thinking,surely if people are content at travelling at 60mph in the uk,with the van behind and are used to that speed.then i would have thought 60mph would be second nature were ever you are.what is the rush? that is the speed were used to.i have also noticed idiot speeders towing vans ,now on three occasions in the last three weeks.seen one guy two weeks ago on the m6(i hope your listening).the norm-vectra cdti(120brake),abbey van(Somerset)just past stafford services. 85mph,just to get along side him,im in my own car which was solo,the van was just about everywhere, bar the left hand lane.and what looked like no stabilizer fitted.unreal.

yet this was a very respectable outfit.

why should my family and myself have our lives endangered for a tosser like this when the vans upside down?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Seth,

The simple answer you shouldn't be endangered by anyone speeding with a caravan or not. Firstly why was it necessary to try and overtake this caravan, if it was doing close to 85mph as you state. That outfit would be pulling away from you if you were obeying the speed limit. Its no defence to claim you were trying to overtake.

You also state that it was 'just about everywhere'. Well if you could see it was so, then why did you approach it? Best advice is always to give as much clearance as possible so anything that does happen to the problem vehicle is sufficiently far away from you to allow you thinking time and time to avoid the difficulty.

 

[Legsmaniac_374344731]

Having recently driven down the M5 to Exmouth, I've overtaken a lot of caravans in tow myself. And no, I wasn't speeding. I'm sure that someone doing a steady 60 can seem like they are "going a fair whack" to someone doing a steady 55.

I think this can work both ways too. I was actually amazed at the number of caravans I overtook on the M5. I was thinking it's a no wonder the likes of Jeremy Clarkson hate caravans and those who crawl and hold up the traffic.

That said - sod the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and go at whatever speeds you feel comfortable with. There's no rush after all.

 

[KnL]

JohnL,

You make a very valid point around legal speed limits and associated dangers.

Like yourself, I do not condone speeding and agree that minor transgressions do not neccessarily become dangerous driving per se, however as you say, the limits should be adhered to.

Seth,

You seem to agree with towing safely at 60mph and ask "what's the rush", however your judgement falls into disrepute when, obviously well in excess of the speed limit yourself, you approach such a high speed and unstable unit.

You call the driver of that unit a tosser (And rightly so) for putting your family's life at risk by driving in such a manner, yet you increase the risk to them yourself by approaching him.

Next time, and there will be a next time, as Craigs post has shown, these incidents are on the increase, Look after those that are most important to you, back off a bit and let the tosser get well out of your way,

Ken.

 

[S-MaxJon]

When was the current 60mph brought into force ?The reason I ask is that maybe when that limit was decided upon the cars and caravans may not have had the benefit of ESP etc and the built in stablizers.

I remember my dad pulling our caravan in an old Cortina cicra 1978 and the unit snaking at 50mph I think but obviously this didn't have the modern technology.

Maybe it is time to rethink the current speed limit although I appreciate that not all outfits are upto current industry standards.

 

[RogerL]

Jonathan - caravan brakes haven't improved since the days of the 40 mph towing limit.

The Caravan Club is one of the main insurers of caravans - if they noticed a trend towards fewer caravan write-offs, they would have used the evidence and lobbied for an increase.

In Germany the towing limit is 50mph(80kph) unless the CARAVAN complies with Tempo 100 which includes regular MOT-type tests - UK caravans are simply not that good across the board - although some are.