ss i know im going to get flogged for this but in a awful lot of posts ive seen by you i notice the same trend in them, you keep re stating that you have the big high powered 4x4 the large twin axle and are a female that tows alone frequently and and often at speeds between at 60 to 80 and you will do as you please. That said then it should not bother you at what speed the rest of us tow at or with what, i can tell you that i tow predominantly at 55mph and will not go faster to suit anybody else sorry if this offends anybody. luke
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Speeding Cravanners.......
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I don't find road safety a wind up subject Parksy, you have to admit surely in your position as moderator that you have changed you story around a little.
The impression your first post gave was not what you have now changed your stance to.
I am quite happy for drivers towing caravans to tow at ten miles per hour if the conditions dictate that or nothing else is on the motorway.
I have not suggested that anyone breaks the speed limit or that they be forced to travel at sixty.
But in everyday motorway driving when traffic is flowing , travelling at a speed less than most trucks on a motorway is not smart. That is what your first post suggested Parksy, but you have now added more information.
I have no idea what others tow with but I know that over a two hundred mile tow my car would not save a great deal of fuel altering from 60mph to 50/55 mph and I would rather be safer than be a potential moving chicane hazard.
If you feel that is a wind up that is your perogative.
ps. Women have been the butt of driving jokes and other male chauvinistic behaviour for generations, does a little belated retaliation really deserve the comments left here, I think many women would find the comment quite rich really!
The impression your first post gave was not what you have now changed your stance to.
I am quite happy for drivers towing caravans to tow at ten miles per hour if the conditions dictate that or nothing else is on the motorway.
I have not suggested that anyone breaks the speed limit or that they be forced to travel at sixty.
But in everyday motorway driving when traffic is flowing , travelling at a speed less than most trucks on a motorway is not smart. That is what your first post suggested Parksy, but you have now added more information.
I have no idea what others tow with but I know that over a two hundred mile tow my car would not save a great deal of fuel altering from 60mph to 50/55 mph and I would rather be safer than be a potential moving chicane hazard.
If you feel that is a wind up that is your perogative.
ps. Women have been the butt of driving jokes and other male chauvinistic behaviour for generations, does a little belated retaliation really deserve the comments left here, I think many women would find the comment quite rich really!
Parksy
Moderator
I see no point in continuing to discuss this subject with you as we obviously have no common ground and will never agree.
My philosophy in life is based mainly on the premise of each to their own so if you wish to tow at exactly 60mph on motorways that's up to you, I'll continue to tow at speeds slightly below that should I wish to do so.
Similarly your towcar would have a completely different engine performance envelope to mine so any comparison which embraces fuel economy, or lack of it in my case would be meaningless.
As for your 'belated retalliation' I concede that women have been targeted unfairly with misplaced humour and chauvinistic behavior by men for too long but to introduce gender based jibes into your othewise fairly intelligent observations sadly debases your viewpoints on various subjects on this forum imho.
G
Guest
What a tangled web 😉 As a non UK resident I see cases of British and other drivers who drive at speed in France and far to often with unsuitable outfits or in the wrong place.
A lot of the time our French roads have less traffic than UK roads, yet I see to many Brit caravanners on good clear autoroutes and dual carriageways slowly wandering oblivious to the higher speed of other vehicles and the danger they put themselves and others in some times.
The idea that "I'll do 55 no matter what" is an alien concept to me and I would queery the "complete picture" road awareness of such a driver.
Travelling by car only for the past month in the UK I can see both points of veiw, but yesterday a Bailey Pageant towed by a Freelander on three lanes near Cambridge was a rolling hazard and danger to the family in it and others at about 52/53.
Euro
A lot of the time our French roads have less traffic than UK roads, yet I see to many Brit caravanners on good clear autoroutes and dual carriageways slowly wandering oblivious to the higher speed of other vehicles and the danger they put themselves and others in some times.
The idea that "I'll do 55 no matter what" is an alien concept to me and I would queery the "complete picture" road awareness of such a driver.
Travelling by car only for the past month in the UK I can see both points of veiw, but yesterday a Bailey Pageant towed by a Freelander on three lanes near Cambridge was a rolling hazard and danger to the family in it and others at about 52/53.
Euro
G
Guest
ps.
How many here realise that HGV's on UK A roads are restricted to 40mph, I don't see many that adhere to that limit and I know that police turn a blind eye much of the time. Many HGV drivers and police consider 40 to be a problem maker for other road users and unrealistic.
I even saw UK HGV Driving school lorries around York with signs on the rear explaining why they go at 40mph.
How many here realise that HGV's on UK A roads are restricted to 40mph, I don't see many that adhere to that limit and I know that police turn a blind eye much of the time. Many HGV drivers and police consider 40 to be a problem maker for other road users and unrealistic.
I even saw UK HGV Driving school lorries around York with signs on the rear explaining why they go at 40mph.
Luke. Could you kindly please put previous comments in to context.
Comments were not about UK roads and driving! Over 60mph related to France and over 70mph to older lighter outfits that can legally tow in France at up to 130kph on dry autoroutes.
Comments were not about UK roads and driving! Over 60mph related to France and over 70mph to older lighter outfits that can legally tow in France at up to 130kph on dry autoroutes.
🙂 Micheal E!
A lot of people don't know or pretend not to know from what I see!
A lot of people don't know or pretend not to know from what I see!
i didnt realise what a point of interest this topic was going to be when i posted it.....having read everyones responses i can see both sides of the argument....long may this debate continue and thankyou to everyone who has contributed
craig
3.9v8 rangerover classic and a sterling elite eccles sxplorer
craig
3.9v8 rangerover classic and a sterling elite eccles sxplorer
Euro,
You are correct but the limitation for HGV's does not apply to all A roads, only single carriageway sections that are signed National Speed Limit.
Dual carriageway sections of A roads carry a higher limit ie :-
Goods vehicle not exceeding 7.5 tonnes (not car derived) - solo,
(single carriageway 50)(dual carriageway 60)(motorway 70)
Goods vehicle not exceeding 7.5 tonnes - towing,
(single carriageway 50)(dual carriageway 60)(motorway 60)
Goods vehicle exceeding 7.5 tonnes (Rigid or articulated)
(single carriageway 40)(dual carriageway 50)(motorway 60)
Michael E,
Very honest of you but, with the availability and low cost of The Highway Code, there should be no excuse for not being aware of a basic speed limitation.
That's not a direct pop at you, it's for anyone that Sadie has identified as "not knowing or pretending not to know".
That old adage stands - "ignorance of the law is not a defence".
If anyone passed their driving test a long time ago, they are unlikely to have had further training or need to brush up on the rules and regs for the roads, and a number of changes will have occurred over the years.
Brushing up with a new edition Highway Code will not hurt any of us, and on a much more controversial note, it's got to better (IMHO) than watching that utter dross "Big Brother" on an evening.
You are correct but the limitation for HGV's does not apply to all A roads, only single carriageway sections that are signed National Speed Limit.
Dual carriageway sections of A roads carry a higher limit ie :-
Goods vehicle not exceeding 7.5 tonnes (not car derived) - solo,
(single carriageway 50)(dual carriageway 60)(motorway 70)
Goods vehicle not exceeding 7.5 tonnes - towing,
(single carriageway 50)(dual carriageway 60)(motorway 60)
Goods vehicle exceeding 7.5 tonnes (Rigid or articulated)
(single carriageway 40)(dual carriageway 50)(motorway 60)
Michael E,
Very honest of you but, with the availability and low cost of The Highway Code, there should be no excuse for not being aware of a basic speed limitation.
That's not a direct pop at you, it's for anyone that Sadie has identified as "not knowing or pretending not to know".
That old adage stands - "ignorance of the law is not a defence".
If anyone passed their driving test a long time ago, they are unlikely to have had further training or need to brush up on the rules and regs for the roads, and a number of changes will have occurred over the years.
Brushing up with a new edition Highway Code will not hurt any of us, and on a much more controversial note, it's got to better (IMHO) than watching that utter dross "Big Brother" on an evening.
G
Guest
Type of Vehicles and Road Types
Built-up Areas
Single Carriageway
Dual Carriageway
Motorways
National Speed limits - unless you are one of the following groups:
30
60
70
70
Cars towing caravans & trailers
30
50
60
60
Buses and Coaches (Less than 12 meters long)
30
50
60
70
Goods Vehicles (less than 7.5 tonnes max laden weight
30
50
60
70
HGV's (more than 7.5 tonnes max laden weight)
30
40
50
60
An A road to me is a two lane road, Dual Carriageway is Dual Carriageway 😉
Built-up Areas
Single Carriageway
Dual Carriageway
Motorways
National Speed limits - unless you are one of the following groups:
30
60
70
70
Cars towing caravans & trailers
30
50
60
60
Buses and Coaches (Less than 12 meters long)
30
50
60
70
Goods Vehicles (less than 7.5 tonnes max laden weight
30
50
60
70
HGV's (more than 7.5 tonnes max laden weight)
30
40
50
60
An A road to me is a two lane road, Dual Carriageway is Dual Carriageway 😉
Hi Ken
I only looked it up because 1 of our delivery guys in a van got a speeding ticket for doing 60 on an A road.
I knew it was 60 on motorways and duel carriage ways i just didnt think it was any different on other roads.
Your right i should brush up on my highway code so much for thinking i knew the law.
I only looked it up because 1 of our delivery guys in a van got a speeding ticket for doing 60 on an A road.
I knew it was 60 on motorways and duel carriage ways i just didnt think it was any different on other roads.
Your right i should brush up on my highway code so much for thinking i knew the law.
Michael E - the speed limit for vehicles towing trailers has been 50mph on single carriageway roads with no lower limit since the towing limit was raised from a blanket 40mph in the late '60s or early '70s.
I really recommend reading the 2007 Highway Code - you may find that many things have changed in the last 40 years.
I really recommend reading the 2007 Highway Code - you may find that many things have changed in the last 40 years.
Euro,
Your figures are identical to the classes of vehicles and speeds I've already quoted !
I deliberately left out roads designated as "restricted" as they are usually well signed at 30 mph or have other identifiers such as systems of streetlighting at given distances etc., and the speeds apply equally to all vehicles.
Just to complicate the matter further, roads in 'built up areas' can be locally deemed as 20 mph or 40 mph and above, depending on how built up an area is, or how heavy traffic flow is.
Your assumption that an A Road has to be single carriageway only, is simply not correct and at the risk of boring the pants off anyone still interested enough to be reading, I will quote (not from memory I hasten to add) the legal Act that defines National Speed Limit in the UK.
[[[ Section 88 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1988.
Our National Speed Limits are actually temporary speed limits which must be renewed every 18 months, this is achieved automatically by statutory instrument 1548/78.
The limits are specified under 'The 70 mph, 60 mph and 50 mph (Temporary Speed Limit) Order 1977' and are :-
Dual Carriageway roads 70 mph (except specified sections limited to 50 or 60 mph)
Single Carriageway roads 60 mph (except specified sections limited to 50 mph)
Those sections specified as having lower limits are listed in the schedules of the 1977 Order. ]]]
I warned you it was boring and I can list you loads of A roads in just my local area that are single carriageway.
Michael E,
Without knowing the full circumstances I can only guess that your delivery guy was driving a larger van, which if not car derived and had a maximum laden weight exceeding 2 tonnes (which covers most Transit and similar sizes conveying goods) and he was on a single carriageway, he would be restricted to 50 mph maximum.
I hope this helps,
Ken.
Your figures are identical to the classes of vehicles and speeds I've already quoted !
I deliberately left out roads designated as "restricted" as they are usually well signed at 30 mph or have other identifiers such as systems of streetlighting at given distances etc., and the speeds apply equally to all vehicles.
Just to complicate the matter further, roads in 'built up areas' can be locally deemed as 20 mph or 40 mph and above, depending on how built up an area is, or how heavy traffic flow is.
Your assumption that an A Road has to be single carriageway only, is simply not correct and at the risk of boring the pants off anyone still interested enough to be reading, I will quote (not from memory I hasten to add) the legal Act that defines National Speed Limit in the UK.
[[[ Section 88 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1988.
Our National Speed Limits are actually temporary speed limits which must be renewed every 18 months, this is achieved automatically by statutory instrument 1548/78.
The limits are specified under 'The 70 mph, 60 mph and 50 mph (Temporary Speed Limit) Order 1977' and are :-
Dual Carriageway roads 70 mph (except specified sections limited to 50 or 60 mph)
Single Carriageway roads 60 mph (except specified sections limited to 50 mph)
Those sections specified as having lower limits are listed in the schedules of the 1977 Order. ]]]
I warned you it was boring and I can list you loads of A roads in just my local area that are single carriageway.
Michael E,
Without knowing the full circumstances I can only guess that your delivery guy was driving a larger van, which if not car derived and had a maximum laden weight exceeding 2 tonnes (which covers most Transit and similar sizes conveying goods) and he was on a single carriageway, he would be restricted to 50 mph maximum.
I hope this helps,
Ken.
I think the last few post just go to show what a mess of legislation and red tape the regulations are.
It is of course the case that ignorance is not defence, but how many of us who drive private and light goods are aware of the limits that apply to all the other classes of vehicles.
It is hardly surprising that we come across slower vehicles on the roads, if so many of them are actually limited by regulations.
It also goes to show that our road side signage is mess. When I started driving, you could realistically confirm the speed limit of a road by looking at the interval of the light standards, This process seems to have fallen into a real mess with so many new limits being introduced.
It is perhaps time that the speed regulations were reviewed to try and simplify the current mess.
It is of course the case that ignorance is not defence, but how many of us who drive private and light goods are aware of the limits that apply to all the other classes of vehicles.
It is hardly surprising that we come across slower vehicles on the roads, if so many of them are actually limited by regulations.
It also goes to show that our road side signage is mess. When I started driving, you could realistically confirm the speed limit of a road by looking at the interval of the light standards, This process seems to have fallen into a real mess with so many new limits being introduced.
It is perhaps time that the speed regulations were reviewed to try and simplify the current mess.
John L - surely all drivers should know the speed limits for the vehicle types they drive?
I know the speed limits for cars both solo and towing as that's all I drive - I'm unsure of limits affecting HGV, LGV, light goods etc as I don't ever drive them.
The National Speed Limit, defined by a black oblique on a white circle and the urban 30mph limit, defined by street light spacing, are the only limits without repeaters at frequent intervals.
In the USA, speed limits change in built-up areas much more frequently than the UK to reflect the varying level of hazard. Simplification of limits can only be done safely by reduction - do you really want to see 20, 40 and 60 being the only limits?
I know the speed limits for cars both solo and towing as that's all I drive - I'm unsure of limits affecting HGV, LGV, light goods etc as I don't ever drive them.
The National Speed Limit, defined by a black oblique on a white circle and the urban 30mph limit, defined by street light spacing, are the only limits without repeaters at frequent intervals.
In the USA, speed limits change in built-up areas much more frequently than the UK to reflect the varying level of hazard. Simplification of limits can only be done safely by reduction - do you really want to see 20, 40 and 60 being the only limits?
Roger has rightly questioned my suggestion of simplifying the speed restrictions. To put a bit more meat on the bones, my thoughts fall into two areas.
Firstly , the unpublicised limits for different classes of vehicle. With improvements in tyre and braking technology some of the lower limits imposed on typically lager vehicles may be unnecessarily harsh. If such vehicle were allowed run at the speeds indicated by the road signs up to 50mph. This might free up some congestion.
The other part is the plethora of road side signs that adorn our road sides. There are now so many different signs especially at junctions that it is quite possible for a driver to miss some speed limit changes or other information. The law of course says you should slow down enough to be able to take in all the information, but even so I have seen as many as seven different types of information at some junctions on one stanchion. (Direction, restricted access, restricted height and weight and width, Speed, and parking restrictions) This is information overload, and where this occurs on particularly busy junctions or islands, the driver has to also be aware of what other traffic around them is doing.
There clearly needs to be considerable thought, but perhaps a revised approach to signage and the reminders of speed limits should be considered.
Firstly , the unpublicised limits for different classes of vehicle. With improvements in tyre and braking technology some of the lower limits imposed on typically lager vehicles may be unnecessarily harsh. If such vehicle were allowed run at the speeds indicated by the road signs up to 50mph. This might free up some congestion.
The other part is the plethora of road side signs that adorn our road sides. There are now so many different signs especially at junctions that it is quite possible for a driver to miss some speed limit changes or other information. The law of course says you should slow down enough to be able to take in all the information, but even so I have seen as many as seven different types of information at some junctions on one stanchion. (Direction, restricted access, restricted height and weight and width, Speed, and parking restrictions) This is information overload, and where this occurs on particularly busy junctions or islands, the driver has to also be aware of what other traffic around them is doing.
There clearly needs to be considerable thought, but perhaps a revised approach to signage and the reminders of speed limits should be considered.
The improvements in tyre and brake technology FOR CARS have been tremendous but improvements for heavier vehicles have been much slower, and virtually non-existent for caravans.
Back in the 1920's cars had drum brakes operated by rods and cables. Since then they've progressed to hydraulic brakes, disk brakes and ABS brakes. Caravans still use 1920's car brakes.
When 44 tonne HGVs can stop and turn as quickly as cars, then the speed limits should be made the same. I'm sure that HGV designers are working on this problem but any improvements will be in small steps because of the huge forces involved in stopping such large masses.
Back in the 1920's cars had drum brakes operated by rods and cables. Since then they've progressed to hydraulic brakes, disk brakes and ABS brakes. Caravans still use 1920's car brakes.
When 44 tonne HGVs can stop and turn as quickly as cars, then the speed limits should be made the same. I'm sure that HGV designers are working on this problem but any improvements will be in small steps because of the huge forces involved in stopping such large masses.
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