Staggered

[Johnh2]

I'm new to caravanning, so have been looking through all the posts on this forum to gain as much info as possible.

As Terry Wogan would say "Is it me", or is the build quality of most caravans very poor? I'm amazed at how many people have problems with cracking this or that, de laminating windows, damp, pulsating water, faulty fridges; the list goes on and on.

Most new vans cost well over £10k. Comparable in many cases to a new car. If a car manufacturer produced cars with as many defects as caravan manufacturers seem to do, they would be out of business over night. Most people use their car every day. Caravans get used maybe half a dozen to a dozen times a year; yet they seem to have a disproportionate amount of defects, compared to cars. The other thing that strikes me, having read the threads on this forum, is the general couldn't care less attitude of many manufacturers. Imagine if there was a caravanning equivalent of Top Gear; most manufacturers would get a hammering every week. I'm genuinely amazed that most of them are still in business. They seem to off load defects back to the dealers or to the companies whose products THEY have chosen to incorporate into their vans.

If I'd have read all these horror stories before I bought my new van, I probably would never bought one.

I'm off now to go over mine with a fine tooth comb looking for cracks and defects. I'll be very surprised if I don't find any. And if I don't; I strongly suspect it will only be a matter of time before I do.

John

 

[path20]

I agree with everything you say John.The quality control department at the manufacturers should be more vigilant.Some of the defects on our last caravan could be seen at once.Why oh why didn't we reject it straight away?!!! Because we believed everything we are told and we were afraid of saying anything perhaps. Who knows? Just let's say we were not afraid to go over the replacement van very carefully at dispatch and anything we were not happy with we had fixed there and then.We have a few teething problems but we reported them straight away and they are going to be sorted out. AND the van is being picked up by the dealer and returned to us. How's that for service? Never had that done before.

 

[WiltshirePete]

We looked at all makes of british caravan and were deeply unimpressed with build quality etc, so we went for a Hymer. Yes they are very heavy and very expensive (although we got a great bargain used), but the build quality is superb, and when we had an electrical problem it was fixed FOC straight away even though the warranty was up. The old saying "You get what you pay for....!"

 

[Chrissylizzie]

I do generally believe that you get what you pay for but surely when we can pay anything up to

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi john

while it is undeniable that caravans do develop faults just like any manufactured goods, I don't think vans are any better of worse than anything else.

forums while helpfull are not the best place to asses quality issues as posters are usually seeking help or wish to complain to a wider audience, the good points are usually left un-said.

re phrasing a question gets a different response from posters and can also show the positive side of a debate, by enlarge looking around dealers at second hand vans is a much better way of assesing qualitiy, as you get to see with your own eyes what your new van will be like 5 or 10 years time before you buy it.

dont take the posts you read too much to heart as they can give a false impression as to the true quality of the product, go to any top car owners forum and read the problems they have or are having with their cars and you would wonder why anyone would buy such a unreliable vehicle.

colin

 

[path20]

'dont take the posts you read too much to heart as they can give a false impression as to the true quality of the product'

I can assure you Colin that I was not giving any false impression of our faulty(numerous problems)caravan which has just been replaced.Most manufacturers will have 'rogue' vans that slip through their quality control.What many of the posters who have problems are trying to say is that the manufacturers should acknowledge this and act swiftly(very apt).They could send out somebody to look at the caravan and assess it and then decide what is to be done.We have had over 12 months of hassle over a caravan costing

 

[Dustydog]

Yet again the Quality Control issue raises its head.

I hope Nigel Donnelly reads all my previous requests for a QC article in a future PC mag.

Cheers

Alan

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi margaret

dont get your knickers in a twist,O; no one is suggesting that you did not genuinely have problems with your new van.

but if you read all my post and not just one line of it you would see what I was getting at, people use forums to ask and pass comments on faulty vans and equipment, the only view if taken out of context is a negative one, as people dont post questions when nothing has gone wrong do they!!!, something like "the fridge in my pageant is working absolutly beautifully can someone help me with why is it so good" there would not be much point in such a post would there.

what I am saying is we only hear about the faults or when things go wrong not when everything is tickity boo,

from my own experience modern vans are pretty good however one must realise that the more equipment there is the more there is to go wrong and of course the more there is for some to complain about.

my bailey 380/2 is now getting on for 6 years old and has no faults, I have all the paperwork and bills since it was new,

in 6 years it has had

1. a new wardrobe catch(replaced on first service)

2. a new doorlock last owner (attempted break in)

3. new tyres (changed after 4 years)

4. pr shock absorbers (fitted by myself) can't believe they were not on from new.

5. motor mover (self fit)

6. new 110amp battery (for mover)

7. new 12n &12s plugs (old ones corroded)

8. bathroom taps repair kit (small leak)

9. new whale filter housing (cracked on filter treads due to overtightening,yes that was my fault)

and thats it, no cracked f/glass, no doors falling off, no leaks , or damp, no dodgy equipment, nothing in 6 years use 2 small faults "oh I forgot the blown indicator bulb" replaced by a local dealer FOC as I did not kow how to get the light cluster out, so thats 3 in all.

absolutly nothing to complain about at all, in fact just the opposite praises all round well done bailey.

colin.

 

[mark_374368910]

Margaret, I think Colin is right to a certain extent. Forums are great places for wingers (and I am NOT suggesting in any way you are!). However lets take a different product.

If you look on the various forums for "Hotpoint Tumble Dryers" you will discover there are tons and tons of complaints, so one could feel they are a bad brand (and perhaps ther are, lol) BUT they also outsell most other brands 2 to 1, So a) there will be more possibility of complaint b)more people will jump on that bandwagon and almost TRY tyo find fault with theirs. In reality they are probably just as good as any in their price bracket.

One of the problems is that for every 1 continental caravan on the roads there are probably 100 British vans, therefore there are 100 times more opportunities to find, raise and post about the fualts. If there were more foreign vans we wopuld possibly see at least some percentage increase in the number of faults with them.

Living near to a continetla van specialist, I can assure you they DO suffer from faults (as indeed you have found yourself).

Perhaps the bigger question is a) is their customer service better? (No - according to various owners of Polish vans using a certain importer) b) do they outlive, especially dampwise - British vans?

Woody

 

[Chrisbee]

It doesn't really matter how many caravans (or tumble dryers)a manufacturer builds, they should still be able to build them correctly. Indeed, they more they build, the easier it should be to get things right. Fault rates should be negligible.

There is absolutly no excuse for doors, handles etc to fall off a new caravan. It is shoddy design, shoddy build, shoddy materials or a combination of all three. Once a single fault has been reported then it should be designed out of the build and QC/QA should ensure it doesn't return.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Colin

On the face of it I agree with most of what you say. However the corollary to the wingers ( I am not referring to anyone here) is that those products not complained about must be excellent. I can't remember the last time I heard a complaint about an Elldis?

Over the last six years Baileys have performed well but , yes there have been very minor things which have been easily and speedily fixed.

However, when we start talking about cracked ABS panels and water ingress then I think the owner is right to bring the matter up on a forum. This is not negative but more , I believe, in search of a satisfactory resolution and hopefully the manufacturers will understand what went wrong. Then such problems can be avoided in future.

Is this wishful thinking on my part??

Hopefully Nigel and his team at PC will do an article soon on QA/QC.

Cheers

Alan

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

the premiss of the original post by john was that because of all the complaints of posters about quality issues of caravans they must all be rubbish and of poor quality, there by suggesting that van manufacturers dont care about their products serviceability.

my view is that overall vans are pretty good and the reason we only hear about the bad points and faults on forums is because "THAT IS THE NATURE OF FORUMS" or if you like a talking shop where owners can seek advice and help if and when things go wrong, and as with all manufactured goods thing will go wrong sometimes the idea that a product can and should be made with no faults ever showing up may be ideal but not realistic.

perhaps some input from kath at swift or someone from bailey would shed some light on quality issues re; number of van produced to faults found ect.

I wiil make a bet that for every cupboard door that falls of a swift there are a thousand that don't annoying if it is your door that falls off but 1 in 1000 is still a pretty good QA percentage, however make a post on a forum about the cupboard door and all the replies will be from some others who have had the same problem.

anyone reading the posts would then assume that all swifts had a problem with doors falling off. clearly not so because there would be a few thousand other swifts out there with no door problems at all, but you would not get thousands of replies saying my doors are fine.

colin

 

[Chrisbee]

My point is that when the door falls off, the manufacturer should find out why and redesign it to ensure it never happens again. On my Bailey I have only had minor niggles which I have sorted myself but why are Bailey incapible of glueing the bedroom door handle insert in for example? It fell off on the way from the dealer when I bought it brand new. I reglued it myself and it has been fine ever since. If I can do it, why can't they? Is it that I care and they don't?

 

[Johnh2]

ooh er, I really started something; and be being a newbie and all.

I accept that not every van is faulty. My point is that a there do seem to be a higher proportion of NEW vans with problems than I would have expected in 2008. The last time I owned a van was back in the early 80's when I owned a Lunar Sunbeam. We didn't have it for long (had to go for personal reasons) but it had no defects whatsover. I just thought that given the number of years (decades)vans have been made, with improvements in materials and manufacturing techniques, the failure rate would have been very low. I accept forums are, by their very nature, places where people let off steam; but that aside, there do seem to be a lot of MAJOR failures, like cracks and leaking windows, and not just loose hinges.

John

 

[ProfJohnL]

Some excellent replies here.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

chrisbee I do understand the frustration that any faults large or small will cause especialy to the owner of a new van, but unless one can grasp the complexities of manufacture it is somtimes hard to appreciate why things are done in a certain way.

lets take your bedroom door handle you said quote "

On my Bailey I have only had minor niggles which I have sorted myself but why are Bailey incapible of glueing the bedroom door handle insert in for example? It fell off on the way from the dealer when I bought it brand new. I reglued it myself and it has been fine ever since. If I can do it, why can't they? Is it that I care and they don't?"

fair comment however you said reglued I assume from that it was glued in place to start with?? or was it just inserted as a tight fit?? did it have clips to hold it?? are there any screws behind it?? was it shiny metal coloured or plain or wood finished?? was it real metal?? or wood?? or plastic?? is it a big insert or a small one?? what are the handles like on the show vans that the dealer has that have had hundreds of sticky little fingers moving it a thousand times are they missing?? loose?? been restuck on?? ect, ect,

you see what I am getting at a dozen questions all about one little part amogest the hundreds of parts that make up a van every one of which has to be perfect and last the lifetime of the van,on every van made.

nice idea if only???????

colin

 

[Chrisbee]

hi all

chrisbee I do understand the frustration that any faults large or small will cause especialy to the owner of a new van, but unless one can grasp the complexities of manufacture it is somtimes hard to appreciate why things are done in a certain way.

lets take your bedroom door handle you said quote "

On my Bailey I have only had minor niggles which I have sorted myself but why are Bailey incapible of glueing the bedroom door handle insert in for example? It fell off on the way from the dealer when I bought it brand new. I reglued it myself and it has been fine ever since. If I can do it, why can't they? Is it that I care and they don't?"

fair comment however you said reglued I assume from that it was glued in place to start with?? or was it just inserted as a tight fit?? did it have clips to hold it?? are there any screws behind it?? was it shiny metal coloured or plain or wood finished?? was it real metal?? or wood?? or plastic?? is it a big insert or a small one?? what are the handles like on the show vans that the dealer has that have had hundreds of sticky little fingers moving it a thousand times are they missing?? loose?? been restuck on?? ect, ect,

you see what I am getting at a dozen questions all about one little part amogest the hundreds of parts that make up a van every one of which has to be perfect and last the lifetime of the van,on every van made.

nice idea if only???????

colin

Hi Colin

The insert is a tight fitting wooden one glued in. Therefore:

1: The insert is too small

2: The hole is too big

3: Not enough glue was used

4: The glue was not up to the job

I think it was numbers 3&4 as all I did was reglue with "no more nails"

That is just an example of the niggles, another one being the incorrect positioning of a cupboard catch resulting in the catch fouling the side panel making the door difficult to close. I moved it by 5mm to cure the problem. There is no way that cupboard door was checked by QA/QC when the caravan left the production line or if it was it is a case of "not right but it'll do".

However, I'm still pleased with my new(ish) 'van.