Straw Poll.

[Lord Braykewynde]

Frederick Forsythe had a good point, I quote.....

The holier than thou PC brigade may be prepared to snarl at Catholics, Anglicans and even Jews. But what happens when a Muslim Adoption Society says "we can't put children up for adoption by Gays or Lesbians either". Betcha the PC brigade would collapse. For them to be anti-Christian and anti-Semetic is the norm. But anti-Muslim? Perish the thought.

Watch the equality laws go through the window if that happens, there will be exceptions to the law then. It would certainly leave a few of our so saintly M.P.s spluttering with nowhere to go.

 

[MikeS1]

Not comfortable with the idea.

 

[BeemerMal]

Why is it that many hetrosexuals who have posted opinions on this thread, are instantly labelled by others as "Homophobic".

Surely the same applies to homosexuals, but we never hear of them being "Hetrophobic". Of course many are!

I'm don't usually comment on such matters and I believe in live and let live but when it comes to adoption I believe the Catholic church are totally right to make this stand. None of this is about the rights of homosexuals, it is about the rights of children to be raised in family envirionment.

And, before anyone says there are many children who are raised by single parents (usually through no fault of their own, and often very well) or by abusive parents then yes the human race could do better. However, to use this argument as a reason to allow homosexual couples to adopt is totally wrong.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

I do not think that anyone is saying that because a child is in a same sex relationship family that it is any more at risk. Just that the ideal upbringing for a child is the most stable family environment.

Children need a balanced input from both parents and that input should come from both male and female perspectives.

The needs of the children should always be more important then the needs of prospective parents.

I disagree with deliberately created one parent families just as much for the same reasons.

 

[John_5101260]

I have been biting my tounge as I have felt criticised in the past on this forum for expressing an opinion that dosent agree with the majority of forum members.

I dislike the objections to the phrase PC. What is wrong with being Politicaly Correct. Surely PC means that prople are treated with respect irrespective of their minority status. I agree that people often take things too far but the inherent respect for all individuals should be there.

I an not an expert in the adoption process but I am sure that regardless of an individuals sexual orientation prospective parents will be throughly vetted. It is the vetting process that should identify inappropriate couples and not their sexual orientation.

The argument that before long we will be allowing peodophiles to adopt is not only plainly wrong but also plays on the irrational fear that Gay people are more likely to be peodophiles. Remember that when I last looked being gay was not illegal, being a peodophile is!

There are many people who believe that vegenaterisim is not an appropriate life style for growing children, are we then to assum that if you are vegeterian you are to be barred for adoption? Same basic principle. I do not for one moment think that a gay couple would impose their lifestyle on a child in their care, I appriciate that just the process of living in that environment means that the child has a greater exposure to the lifestyle. BUT just as it is unlikely that a hetrosexual couple would openly flaunt their sexual activity in front of the children this is just as unlikley with a Gay couple.

Is the fear that by being brought up in a household comprising a gay couple the child will end up gay? If so what nonsense, if that were the case then all gay people that grew up with hetrosexual parents would not be gay. Being gay is not a lifestyle choice, you either are or you arent, it will not be affected by being brought up in a gay household.

As for the catholic churches stand, I actualy admire them for taking a stand for what they beleive in, I dont happen to agree with them but I do respect the fact they are making a stand. Ultimatly I think they should not win. They are offering a service to the community and therefore should represent the views of the entire community. I appriciate this is against their teachings and I think it could mean that they withdraw the service.

The argument is that the law (which incidentaly they had the opportunity to challenge way back) is contrary to their religous teachings. There are some christian faiths that agree with and promote plolgamy, this is contrary to UK law and is therefore not permitted, are we now going to say that - well it is a matter of religous teaching therefore all you lot can have multiple wives but you lot cant.

I know that this message will not meet with many peoples approval, but quite frankly considering the thinly vailed justifications for discrimination on this forum I dont particularly care. Note I said discrimination not homophobia, I feel that everybodies suitability should be based on individual suitability and not pre judged ideas based on their sexaulity.

John

 

[John_5101260]

I have been biting my tounge as I have felt criticised in the past on this forum for expressing an opinion that dosent agree with the majority of forum members.

I dislike the objections to the phrase PC. What is wrong with being Politicaly Correct. Surely PC means that prople are treated with respect irrespective of their minority status. I agree that people often take things too far but the inherent respect for all individuals should be there.

I an not an expert in the adoption process but I am sure that regardless of an individuals sexual orientation prospective parents will be throughly vetted. It is the vetting process that should identify inappropriate couples and not their sexual orientation.

The argument that before long we will be allowing peodophiles to adopt is not only plainly wrong but also plays on the irrational fear that Gay people are more likely to be peodophiles. Remember that when I last looked being gay was not illegal, being a peodophile is!

There are many people who believe that vegenaterisim is not an appropriate life style for growing children, are we then to assum that if you are vegeterian you are to be barred for adoption? Same basic principle. I do not for one moment think that a gay couple would impose their lifestyle on a child in their care, I appriciate that just the process of living in that environment means that the child has a greater exposure to the lifestyle. BUT just as it is unlikely that a hetrosexual couple would openly flaunt their sexual activity in front of the children this is just as unlikley with a Gay couple.

Is the fear that by being brought up in a household comprising a gay couple the child will end up gay? If so what nonsense, if that were the case then all gay people that grew up with hetrosexual parents would not be gay. Being gay is not a lifestyle choice, you either are or you arent, it will not be affected by being brought up in a gay household.

As for the catholic churches stand, I actualy admire them for taking a stand for what they beleive in, I dont happen to agree with them but I do respect the fact they are making a stand. Ultimatly I think they should not win. They are offering a service to the community and therefore should represent the views of the entire community. I appriciate this is against their teachings and I think it could mean that they withdraw the service.

The argument is that the law (which incidentaly they had the opportunity to challenge way back) is contrary to their religous teachings. There are some christian faiths that agree with and promote plolgamy, this is contrary to UK law and is therefore not permitted, are we now going to say that - well it is a matter of religous teaching therefore all you lot can have multiple wives but you lot cant.

I know that this message will not meet with many peoples approval, but quite frankly considering the thinly vailed justifications for discrimination on this forum I dont particularly care. Note I said discrimination not homophobia, I feel that everybodies suitability should be based on individual suitability and not pre judged ideas based on their sexaulity.

John

With regard to this post (that was posted by me) I ought to say that I am not the John that has been posting recently on this forum. I would hate for somebody else to get any flac for my posting.

John P

 

[Tina3]

I have to agree COMPLETELY with the above post from John. Well said !

Tina x

 

[NorfolkMike]

Is it time to stend up and be counted?

In my mind the R.C.Church have taken a brave and historic stand. I for one feel that a national 'Attend a Catholic Church Day' to show support should be organized. For too long we sit quietly by watching these P.C. minorities get their way, little bit here, little bit there. If one does not wish to stand up to fight them they assume that you are with them.

It is Simple.

This country once was the example to the World in Free Speach. Since Tony and his cronies have been in power what has happened to that conseption of free speach.

Do not rush to answer. Sit quietly and think about it. Then deside what your stand is.

If I say something like 'TONY !!! LETTING BRITIAN DOWN' Mod might like it, so I will not say it.

But the fact is that they change tack on a daily basis and at some time an issue has to be stood up for.

I belive this is one of them.

Sorry to prattle on.

ttfn

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

John if you need to ask the question "What is wrong with being Politicaly Correct" it is of no surprise why the country is in the mess that it is. Do you go around wearing blinkers? Once I saw that question your post held no relevance for me.

You also say..."but I am sure that regardless of an individuals sexual orientation prospective parents will be throughly vetted". Do you mean to say that our Social Services people have a good record on vetting people and you would trust them explicitally :O)

I have no faith in anyone in this Government to get it right. Again they are looking after the selfish minority with no concern for the child.

Asylum seekers, political refugees, paedophiles, economic refugees, suspected terrorists, they are all part of the overall picture of where innocent people aren't part of the equation with this government so I have no faith this issue will be any better.

The Catholic church hasn't a good record either regarding it's foster homes where young children are looked after by priests. Child sexual abuse was rife as is well known and a lot of the abuse was covered up because the children were frightened and when they grew to adulthood they were to embarrassed to speak out.

This country is well down the slippery slope and I'm not sorry that at my age I will not be around to see it flounder but it has gone so far now that only anarchy and a revolution would get it back on track because the government in waiting is no better, so desperate is it for votes. This government goes meddling in other Iraq and Afghanistans affairs whilst at home lawless runs rife.

 

[John_5101260]

"Once I saw that question your post held no relevance for me."

Sums it all up.

John P

 

[cris_408518]

So taking into account the performance of governement agencies such as the probation service you would answer with a Yes then John.

The various state run services have such a great track record forgeting anything else you would tryust them to make the right choice for your kids?

 

[John_5101260]

Just because I dont agree with making sweeping statments about peoples suitability for being prospective adoptive parents dosent mean that I think the system is perfect and dosent need to be monitored strongly and reviewed regularly. I totaly agree that atrocious mistakes have been made in the past and that children have been placed with "unfit" foster parents. That should be looked at regulerly and with the most critical of eyes. I dont object to any of that. What I object to is the assumption (and it is an assumption) that gay people are unfit to be parents. I am sure that many gay people ARE unfit to be foster parents, but just as it would be wrong to assume that all hetrosexual couples that apply ARE fit to be foster parents it is also wrong to assume all gay couples are unfit. That is the descrimination.

None of that has anything to do with the poor delivery of services. We dont fix the service by saying things are wrong but if we barr all gay people that will solve the problem, lets deal with the problem.

John P

 

[Chrissylizzie]

Being a conscientious parent is one of the hardest jobs, and people of both sexes can do either a good job, or a lousy one.

The job of parent means 100% responsibility towards acting for the good of the child.

Some months ago, there was a programme on following several children who were being fostered and adopted. One child, a boy aged about 10 was very excited at the thought of having a new 'mummy and daddy', and he was asked what he hoped they would be like. He gave a description of physical characteristics for both. He was then told that actually, he was going to have two 'daddies'. His face visibly dropped and in the 'aftershots' he never looked entirely comfortable, although in material terms, he was being provided for.

I accept there are relationships of the same sex, and where only adults are concerned that is one thing, but when children are involved,especially children who have already had a troubled past, they need influence from both male and female perspectives. We ARE different, as anybody who has been married for years, can tell you(!) but often, DIFFERENT is good, and generally where children are concerned, preferable.

Even families of both sexes do not necessarily do right by their children, but when children are being put into a new situation, it should be one that gives them the best chance, in my opinion, with both 'mum and dad'.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Equality should mean equality for all .... not just the minorities who if they don't get their own way will lobby Parliament or demonstrate.

Equality should also be for those who aren't in a position to do these things ... the children in question.

How can it be equality for them when they see other children having a mother and father when they have no choice and are put into same gender families. The homosexual community choose how to live their lifestyles and rightly so because that is equality. They choose it knowing fully that they cannot have children naturally. Children are not a must have possession like a pet.

 

[cris_408518]

Sounds like a politicians reply from John. A lot of talk but no real substance.

The question was not about any people being suitable as parents to children up for adopotion!

It was in essence -" would you be truly happy for the kids to be adopted by a gay couple?"

No issues about how well suited they are in their parenting skills !

The slightest hint of ruomour of scandal or something slightly different re a heterosexual couples personal life can have very adverse effects during a childs formative years.

Unlike many who carry their PC hats and pontificate on the rights and wrongs in UK society try a bit of reality like the people who have to pick up the pieces of socially driven PC social experimentation driven by minority groups kicking and screaming and attracting support from those seeking higher Polical office and fame and fortune.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I'm not a Roman Catholic nor am I religious but the Head of the Catholic church in this country is 100% right. I was even surprised to see that the head of my church, the druid Dr. Rowan Williams also supports what the R.C. church is saying. Like others posts in this thread I'm not homophobic, what consenting adults do behind closed doors between themselves is of no concern to me but even someone with only two brain cells knows that procreation and the rearing of a family is between a male and female. I also agree with Angus on the misuse of English words like gay, where on earth did that come from, what is gay about homosexuals? Do they go happily skipping wherever they wander? I'm sick of the minority of politically correct idiots who have taken over this country, what is needed is a revolution because we have gone too far. Nobody in government has mentioned the most important point in this matter and that is the poor child who has no say in the matter and it's the childs welfare that is PARAMOUNT, not the selfish wishes of the homosexual community. I'm sorry Robert but children should be given the right start in life, they will have time when they are older to make up their own minds about their sexual orientation without being reared thinking that two women or two men as parents is natural because quite simply it isn't, no matter what argument you put up.

Thank you coljac ;O)

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Mr Blair said he believed ministers had found a "way through" to prevent discrimination and protect the interests of children, which all "reasonable people" should be able to accept.

What planet do these idiots who run this country come from? How can it possibley be in the best interests of a child who cannot even speak up for themself. If this was put to a vote it would be massively defeated and they know it.

Again this oh so politically correct government have cra**ed in the faces of the majority in this country.

I'm just hoping and praying that Muslims have their agencies too, they wont sit back and take what's thrown at them, there will be demonstrations and then watch these morons backtrack on their "no exemptions". Somehow I don't think they do have agencies else they would have taken to the streets by now :O(

 

[chelsea1]

Provided the child is well loved, cared for, provided for etc etc I dont see any reason why a gay couple shouldnt be allowed to adopt.

There are hundreds of needy/disturbed/deprived children in this country in foster homes, and waiting for adoption that have come from a "man/woman" relationships that have broken down.

So IMO if there is a dedicated gay couple willing to give a child a chance they get a thumbs up from me!

 

[cris_408518]

So the thoughts of the parents and family count for nothing then ?

 

[wayne_5097681]

Of course the thoughts of the family count, but what if your family thought they wouldnt be able to care for them e.g illness,age or just couldnt afford to.

Surely the social services are the best ones to make that decison.

Iam sure that it would be better for the child to be in a stable family enviroment then shipped from home to home, whether it be in a straight or gay family what does it matter?

 

[cris_408518]

In case you haven't noticed children are produced by men and women. And a "family" to many millions around the world is considered to be made up of man and woman what ever our gay friends may think.

As said, I wouldn't want mine or grandchildren brought up by a single parent.

My kids are grown up well educated and very open minded and probably more PC than me.

We've asked them and some of their friends about the original question and if they would have minded being adopted by gay parents.

The answers are not really printable and included one who said "I live in Brighton no ******* way", the youngsters considered it as a bad idea as many others from older generations.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Wayne

"Surely the social services are the best ones to make that decison"

- and that would be because they have a reputation for making good decisions????

As it is the RC adoption service probably has a much better record of decisions than any state social services department.

 

[Robert_374236752]

cris you have certainly got the bit between your teeth with your anti gay crusade, maybe you should take your argument to one of the gay chat forums and see what kind of response you get.

Brighton has got a large gay scene and yes there are some sights to be seen there but for those of us who are "non scene" you will find we are quite normal.

In my experience homophobic people like you are the ones who are the most insecure about their own sexuality,so maybe you should take another look at yourself cris

 

[chelsea1]

ok, so lets throw this in then shall I ?!

When your children grow up, and say perhaps a child of yours is gay (of course you would all accept it as you have friends and family who are gay).....

If they wanted to adpot a child and make you a grandparent - what would you do??

-----------------

I know this is a site of opinions, but I cant believe some of the hurtful replies im reading on this thread, now I know why I dont post on here so much anymore :-(

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Of course the thoughts of the family count, but what if your family thought they wouldnt be able to care for them e.g illness,age or just couldnt afford to.

Surely the social services are the best ones to make that decison.

Iam sure that it would be better for the child to be in a stable family enviroment then shipped from home to home, whether it be in a straight or gay family what does it matter?

"Surely the social services are the best ones to make that decison". lmaooooo Wayne, where have you been for the last 30 years.