Strikers

[Parksy]

So, 2 million selfish greedy sods fancy another day off work on top of their generous holiday allowance, bank holidays, and not forgetting the “sick days” they must take.
I wonder how they would cope in a real job in the private sector, where most people have had their pensions cut, no pay increases for two or three years, and are in constant fear of loosing their job.
Whinger

 

[Surfer]

So, 2 million selfish greedy sods fancy another day off work on top of their generous holiday allowance, bank holidays, and not forgetting the “sick days” they must take.
I wonder how they would cope in a real job in the private sector, where most people have had their pensions cut, no pay increases for two or three years, and are in constant fear of loosing their job.
Whinger

My thoughts exactly!

 

[Surfer]

BTW could ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers be used when referring to the previous government?

 

[Beehpee]

And I thought I was the only person who had no time for these strikers, I agree totally with the above comments, why should I as a tax payer pay towards a pension for some person who gets 13 weeks holiday a year and gets pretty decent wages already, I speak of teachers, to hear them you would think they were the only people in the country working, I know and appreciate they haven't an easy job but it's better than lots of people currently have, we're all having to tighten our belts so why should they be protected any more than the rest of us, if they don't like the job get out and do something else, as someone once said, I forget who, "those who can, do! Those who can't, teach!

 

[ProfJohnL]

What a shame to read all the old clichés that demonstrate the ignorance of those that use them.

 

[RussellT1]

Hear Hear John!

I, too, am fed up with generalist statements made by bigoted people who are just jumping on the same old bandwagon.

Both my other half and I have been in the public sector for 12 years, and formerly we were both in the private sector for 16+ years – so we can see both sides.

Yes, there are some people in the public sector who are inefficient and lazy – but there are in the private sector (and inevitably there will be in any large organisation). It is totally wrong to tar everyone with the same brush.

I would like to challenge some of the points raised by Whinger (apt name btw):

Holidays – I get 2 WHOLE DAYS a year more than I did in the private sector. Hardly a massive difference. My other half gets 6 DAYS LESS than she did in the private sector.
Hours – I work longer hours now than I did in the private sector
Pay – less than my equivalent grade job would be in private sector (and I DON’T get any bonuses!)
Sick leave – yes, admit I have had 2 DAYS off in last 18 MONTHS. Wow.
Pay freeze – haven’t had a pay rise for 3 years now – and now can look forward to a MASSIVE 1% for next 2 years (even as my train fare goes up 6%).
Pension – yes, I’ll give you that one, its good – but then I consider it compensates for above, so its fair.

On top of this we have to put up with being a scapegoat for a mess we didn’t cause, a political football and bear the brunt of ire from ignorant people.

Oh yes, lastly ‘job security’. Dept is taking 40% cuts – redundant in April.

Case closed.

 

[mat1]

Private sector worker - your career choice as was public sector for me.
And who do the private sector turn to everyday for help with their day to day lives ............................ yep public sector.

I to have had my pay frozen, my pay and conditions are being looked at seperately as well !!!
My chosen employment has an effect on my private life, and i work 24/7.
I have no right to strike and no union to stand up for me.

Granted i cannot be made redundant, but the private sector do not face the threats to life or awful scenes i am faced with daily.

Signed
Scapegoat for all breaches in law and order, and doing possibly the only job you can end up in prison, for doing what you are paid for.

 

[Dustydog]

The one big question they all avoid.
Who is going to pay?
They and those in the private sector of course.
Please, if money does grow on trees can someone sell me one.

 

[NickinFrance]

With a pension fund worth tens of thousands of pounds less than I paid into it, mainly due to Gordon Brown raping it a couple of times, I'm sorry I don't have a lot of sympathy for pubic sector employees.

Facts need to be faced, the current pension (& health care) system is unsustainable for almost every developed country, more people are living to an age that wasn't thought possible when these schemes were set up.

One fairly minor example, the Police pension fund had to be topped up by the tax payer last year to the tune of almost half a billion pounds last year, multiply that by all the other public sector employees & that is a lot of money to be paid by a smaller & smaller percentage of the population.

 

[mat1]

One fairly minor example, the Police pension fund had to be topped up by the tax payer last year to the tune of almost half a billion pounds last year,

And the police are the highest contributors at 11%.
Some public sector only contribute 2 or 3%.
Raise those paying less than the police to an equivalent amount, or even double their contributions, to nearer 11%.
End of a large pension hole.

Mat

 

[carper2]

Isn't it strange how people always blame the strikers. Yet the Government get away blame free, even when they say take the offer or lose it. They have also said that they will change the laws to make it harder to strike. To me this is not a democratic country anymore but a dictatorship and has been for quite a few years. Before now they have even said if you don't accept what is offered we will implement it.
Let's not forget also that most public sector workers do jobs where their lives are in danger all the time.
I know I was one 8 years ago.

Les

 

[RogerL]

Let's not forget also that most public sector workers do jobs where their lives are in danger all the time.
I know I was one 8 years ago.
Les

Most? That's a poor choice of words - a few certainly but not most.

 

[earlyriser]

money tree for dustydog

 

[Mel]

Wake up and smell the coffee people. The pension issue is just a small part of a bigger picture. The big picture is to privatise tthe public sector and every bite that the government can take; they will take. Look at the NHS; whole hospitals are now being run by the private sector. Chunks of hospitals are run by private sector companies; Boots dispense out patient prescriptions. NHS business is put out to private sector providers. Social Care is going into private sector providers; Look at care for the elderly; care for people with Learning Disabilities and so on; all in the private sector. Education is being edged into private sector provision.
The major obstacle to selling off more of the NHS to the private sector is the pension scheme. Dismantle this and it is even more saleable. This is not about pensions, this is about dismantling public services. Once the private secttor is in place to provide Health and Social Care; it is an easy step to bring in private insurance so that we can pay for it ourselves.
Do you think that the NHS will be there for your children and grandchildren? It won't be.
Stop squabbling about whether private sector staff are worse or better off than public sector staff. It is irrelevant. Think instead about what your children or grandchildren will do when there is no public sector.
mel

 

[Alimac1]

RussellT

agree completely except in my part of the public sector I have the benefit of a pay freeze until 2013!

Ali

 

[Dustydog]

money tree for dustydog

Can I buy this on Paypal?

Most eloquent script Mel. I do hope you are wrong. The NHS hospital in North Wiltshire is excellent. I'd hate to see it broken up

 

[Justhereforawhinge]

Does it really matter if services are provided by the public sector or the private sector! Surely what matters is that the correct level of services is provided in and efficient and cost effective way.
It is societies decision what the level of service should be, made by the election of a government who sets and monitors the standard.
Back to pensions. The Leveson enquiry has said that it is a myth that public sector pay is lower than private sector pay, therefore there is no need for an enhanced pension to compensate for lower pay levels. Yet it is a fact that around 80% of public sector workers still have a final salary pension compared to around 10% of private sector workers.
Its time these people and there leaders, the trade unions, woke up to the economic realities and stop making demands on the countries credit card that we cannot repay.

 

[JohnandNic]

In reply to whinger, we both work for the NHS and together we've not had 1 day sick leave in the last 3-4 years, so we're hardly taking the
p*%s as you ignorantly state. My wife used to work in the private sector before we moved, where she earned considerably more and got a bonus. We both work many hours above the ones we're contracted to work, for NO pay but to help provide a service to the public.
I assume that since you think so lowly of all public service workers you don't use the NHS, police, schools, etc....... but I doubt it.

I also assume that you're happy that the government are giving a 5% increase to benefits, some of whom have be classed on these fora as scroungers etc and 1% to public service workers
Perhaps we should have seperate camp sites for public and private sector workers so we don't offend the private sector, a chunk of which, banking, got us into this state.

John

 

[Surfer]

It was public sector workers that probably suggested to Brown how to rape private sector pensions. Also it was the public sector that instigated and lied about climate chnage in order to tax for taxes to be increased. Perhaps this was an underhand ploy to help sustain their pensions.
Why doesn't someone in the public sector tell the government to stop giving away billions in foreign aid? Doesn't charity start at home.

 

[Justhereforawhinge]

John & Nic
I'm not Jeremy Clarkson. I don’t think lowly of all public service workers, just the minority that voted for strike action, and yes I do use the NHS, police etc. when needed, but I also understand that as a nation we cannot continue to spend money we are not earning, that’s why I haven’t complained when public services have been cut but I still pay the same, or more taxes.
Yes I am happy that the government are giving a 5% increase to benefits to some people, I only hope that that it can be targeted to the people that really need it, and before you, or anyone else says it I have never claimed any benefits.

 

[mullsy1]

I think if all public sector workers were getting the benefits of the likes of politicians who pay in for fifteen years and get 50,000 plus pension I think we would all be up in arms.A Domestic in the NHS can work for thirty years and end up with a final pension of 4000 per annum.Lets keep the vitriol for the managers ect ,who receive a helluva lot for very little

 

[carper2]

Let's not forget also that most public sector workers do jobs where their lives are in danger all the time.
I know I was one 8 years ago.
Les

Most? That's a poor choice of words - a few certainly but not most.

Sorry for that it should have put alot.

Les

 

[carper2]

I wonder if Politicians have had a pay cut or had their pay frozen in the last 3 or 4 years. They are a lot better off than a lot of Public or Private sector workers, they are the only (workers

) that get almost as much time off as the time they work. Will they have to contribute more to their pensions, if they do they should be able to afford it quite easily.

Les

 

[Mel]

Does it really matter if services are provided by the public sector or the private sector! Surely what matters is that the correct level of services is provided in and efficient and cost effective way.
It is societies decision what the level of service should be, made by the election of a government who sets and monitors the standard.
Back to pensions. The Leveson enquiry has said that it is a myth that public sector pay is lower than private sector pay, therefore there is no need for an enhanced pension to compensate for lower pay levels. Yet it is a fact that around 80% of public sector workers still have a final salary pension compared to around 10% of private sector workers.
Its time these people and there leaders, the trade unions, woke up to the economic realities and stop making demands on the countries credit card that we cannot repay.

Couple of things here. First, in order to dismantle the NHS and other public sector services the first thing to do is put private sector companies in place to deliver the service. this is already happening but so far as it is still funded via taxes and "free at the point of delivery" (like the NHS) so no-one has noticed. However once the private sector is in place it is a small step to say, "lets cut out the middle man, instead of paying tax to the govt so that we buy the sevice we will give each of you an individual budgest to buy your own". Next step is that this won't quite buy you all the health care you need so you will fill the gap with private health insurance. Guess what happens next? Yep same as America. Also the profit making assets of the NHS are acute medicine-do the procedure and you'll get better medicine. Like hip replacements, cataracts etc. The loss making stuff is chronic conditions; diabetes, stroke etc. Guess what the private sector will want. The NHS will be asset stripped. Best hope you need a hip replacenment not stroke rehab. As I said before the stumbling block in privatisation is the NHS pension scheme.
Second there is not a problem in many public sector pension schemes. The Social Services scheme is in surplus and predicted to be in surplus for the foreseeable future. The taxpayer is not propping it up.
Third, I still don't understand why the arguement is about who deserves what. It is a myth that all public sector workers get a gold plated pension, just as it is a myth that all private sector workers get big bonuses. Surely it is not a race to the bottom. Shouldn't public sector workers be supporting private sector workers in getting pension deals and vice versa? bit of solidarity?
mel

 

[joeby]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2068930/How-India-squanders-British-aid--1-4bn-country-space-programme.html
-------------------------------------------------
click on the above link to see a small part of what we pay for , i worked as subcontract bricklayer for years i have never been on strike or claimed sick pay or recieved holiday pay , all i get is a state pension in spite of the 1000s i have payed in tax and VAT , i am classed as too rich to get pension credits , yet i pay towards goverment pensions , a third of your council tax goe's on pensions but its never written on the bill , this year we payed out £8.7 million in foreign aid plus Cameron pledged another £814 million towards vaccinating worlds poorest children thats on top of the £2 million they already recieve , plus he has just give South Africa £330 million , and these union officialls are given £130 million a year from the taxpayer to disrupt our lives , add on top the billions on illegal immigrants , and the million £ a day we give EU , if any strikes need to happen it needs to be the whole country ,