Surprised at lack of comment on caravan industry economic issues.

[Tobes]

Son of Fred Drift
Can I just say that while I know this thread started on a related - but different - topic, and morphed into wide discussion on all sorts of aspects of EVs that affect future towing, I feel that, somehow, this time, we have all (me included) managed to do so with a level of enquiry, response and decorum that really promotes understanding. Well done us!

 

[otherclive]

Agreed. BZ to all.

 

[Buckman]

So ICE cars don’t fail in an unsafe manner. What about Puretech engines? My son had an early model Focus that would just cut out and the fault could not be traced and it wasn’t just his car that was affected. Seemed to be some interaction with the aircon system. He got rid of it as at the time he was commuting along the M4 into Reading.

I never implied that so please read the post again as it referred to a recently purchase vehicle and this time please try to understand what I was trying to say instead of making unnecessary statements. Thank you!

 

[Tobes]

IC cars can fail in an unsafe manner - cambelt failure in the outside lane of a busy motorway with no hard shoulder is a frightening experience - power steering goes, brake servo goes - got the T-shirt!

Yep - a failed fuel pump on a GrandVoyager left us dumped on a hard shoulder in France . At least there we retained electrical power, but as the engine died we lost servo assist on breaks and steering.
And a failed high pressure turbo hose resulted in limp mode while towing a caravan on the A5D round Rhyl, and trying to get to a safe pull in. Nasty...

 

[Buckman]

This is nothing new. and certainly not just an EV specific scenario. I have known an ICE car that had a faulty 12V battery : that stranded the owner in the off side lane of major dual carriage way.

However all they would have needed is a new battery which is a 10 minute job for them to be on their way again. We were in that situation about 2 - 3 years ago due to a faulty alternator and battery and it is not pleasant even though we were not in the outside lane.

However if you had read my post and understood it, I was referring to rejecting the vehicle due to it being unsafe although the battery issue was in the description when the vehicle was sold.

Makes one wonder if a battery test will be included in the MOT at some point in the future?

 

[Buckman]

A friend has just leased a Toyota Yaris Hybrid, it came with a solar panel for the windscreen, Not a good advert for reliability.,

As mentioned previously a batch of batteries from Turkey had issues, but Toyota has been replacing them FOC with batteries from another supplier. No more issues I have been told. Suggest your friend visit the Toyota forum for more info.

 

[ProfJohnL]

However all they would have needed is a new battery which is a 10 minute job for them to be on their way again. We were in that situation about 2 - 3 years ago due to a faulty alternator and battery and it is not pleasant even though we were not in the outside lane.

However if you had read my post and understood it, I was referring to rejecting the vehicle due to it being unsafe although the battery issue was in the description when the vehicle was sold.

Makes one wonder if a battery test will be included in the MOT at some point in the future?

I had read and understood your post!

In this specific case, If a customer is advised of the poor condition of a traction battery by the seller, that information is classed as part of the description of the goods. The buyer is responsible for making the decision whether to buy or leave. If the buyer decides to buy, it would be accepted the buyer is fully aware of the battery condition, and made a conscious informed decision to buy the vehicle with the impaired battery.

Under these circumstances, the buyer could not reject the vehicle if it fails becasue of the impaired battery, specifically becasue the battery condition was fully declared before sale, and the buyer chose to risk the issue.

But as the growing body of historical evidence proves, the reliability of EV batteries are surprisingly high , and there ae many other parts of cars ( solo and shared with ICE and EV) which are far more likely to cause a total failure of a modern car.

 

[Dustydog]

But ICE cars fuel consumption as described by the WLTP test figures are known to be optimistic. They can only really be used for comparitive purposes between vehicles. So if they are optimistic that also affects the range too. But ICE owners don’t seem bothered by it, I guess it’s because they just call in to a fuel station for a fill up.

Absolutely 😎As I said the ICE MPG figures are flawed😉

 

[Dustydog]

EVs do fail without warning but the anecdotal evidence says it is rare and as a % no worse

I had read and understood your post!

In this specific case, If a customer is advised of the poor condition of a traction battery by the seller, that information is classed as part of the description of the goods. The buyer is responsible for making the decision whether to buy or leave. If the buyer decides to buy, it would be accepted the buyer is fully aware of the battery condition, and made a conscious informed decision to buy the vehicle with the impaired battery.

Under these circumstances, the buyer could not reject the vehicle if it fails becasue of the impaired battery, specifically becasue the battery condition was fully declared before sale, and the buyer chose to risk the issue.

But as the growing body of historical evidence proves, the reliability of EV batteries are surprisingly high , and there ae many other parts of cars ( solo and shared with ICE and EV) which are far more likely to cause a total failure of a modern car.

I fully agree Prof

The devil is in the detail.

If the seller in the very unlikely situation says the battery is duff then imo any future failure is down to the purchaser. However say the seller says the battery is already 50% used and it fails before the next 50% time frame is up then that’s down to the seller.

In practice I can’t see any dealer personally guaranteeing the battery. What I suspect they will do is refer to the manufacturers battery warranty, most of which seem to be 8-10 years.

My friend has 5 y old Tesla which has not been a bed of roses. He lives in the Cotswolds but has to take the car to Tesla Bristol which is on the South side near Cribbs Causeway. A 130 mile round trip.
His air suspension has failed twice, once the pump, secondly a sensor thing that cost a mint. The suspension bushes have needed replacement and the auto card reader security system needed a lot of TLC. .They also,like to change his expensive tyres at 3-4 mm!

He’s now looking at Polestar, China or Kia EV. The warranties / guarantees are generous especially the Koreans

 

[Sam Vimes]

Daughter of Fred Drift.


Citroen have just issued a Stop Drive notice to some of their cars due to potentially dangerous air bags. Owners are advised not to drive them. Would it invalidate insurance if they do so?

But how do you get it to the workshop in order for it to be fixed?

 

[Dustydog]

Daughter of Fred Drift.


Citroen have just issued a Stop Drive notice to some of their cars due to potentially dangerous air bags. Owners are advised not to drive them. Would it invalidate insurance if they do so?

But how do you get it to the workshop in order for it to be fixed?

Ask Citroen to put their money where their mouth is and collect, fix and return the car. If you have been told officially not to drive it then your Insurer may well refuse to pay a claim if you have an accident. Due diligence.

 

[otherclive]

Ask Citroen to put their money where their mouth is and collect, fix and return the car. If you have been told officially not to drive it then your Insurer may well refuse to pay a claim if you have an accident. Due diligence.

I posted details on another thread. But realistically it’s not possible to fix them all instantly. Citroen have been passing them through but supplies are still in limited supply and whilst the technicians are replacing air bags where are the technicians coming from to service, mot and repair customers vehicles. I had two cars done, one a Nissan the other a Subaru. But didn’t get a STOP/DRIVE notice when first notified of the recall, and neither was done instantly.

 

[Dustydog]

I posted details on another thread. But realistically it’s not possible to fix them all instantly. Citroen have been passing them through but supplies are still in limited supply and whilst the technicians are replacing air bags where are the technicians coming from to service, mot and repair customers vehicles. I had two cars done, one a Nissan the other a Subaru. But didn’t get a STOP/DRIVE notice when first notified of the recall, and neither was done instantly.

Arguably it is a safety critical item. A Stop Drive notice cannot be ignored.
Years ago a major British boiler manufacturer I was involved with had 10,000 units in the field with faulty gas valves that malfunctioned causing explosions
They didn't have enough in house engineers. So many of the recalls were subbed out to independents and BG
Citroen can do similar or provide temporary hire cars

 

[Buckman]

I had read and understood your post!

In this specific case, If a customer is advised of the poor condition of a traction battery by the seller, that information is classed as part of the description of the goods. The buyer is responsible for making the decision whether to buy or leave. If the buyer decides to buy, it would be accepted the buyer is fully aware of the battery condition, and made a conscious informed decision to buy the vehicle with the impaired battery.

Under these circumstances, the buyer could not reject the vehicle if it fails becasue of the impaired battery, specifically becasue the battery condition was fully declared before sale, and the buyer chose to risk the issue.

But as the growing body of historical evidence proves, the reliability of EV batteries are surprisingly high , and there ae many other parts of cars ( solo and shared with ICE and EV) which are far more likely to cause a total failure of a modern car.

The customer may not be aware that if the battery failed, that they could affect their safety? I am only responding in relation to a second hand car bought from a dealership with a clause mentioning the issue with the battery. Somehow I doubt if any dealership would be foolish enough to sell an EV with a battery that may pack in any day, but.................?

 

[Mel]

When we bought our EV the sales guy said that their dealership ( Vauxhall) had just bought some state of the art contraption to test the overall health of the EV battery. Ours came in at 98% rating where 100% is brand new and as good as it gets. Please don’t ask me the technicalities of this, as I don’t know. The important part is that I got a copy of that test result as part of the sale. The battery is guaranteed for 8 years from new. 4 years old when we bought it.
Mel

 

[Buckman]

When we bought our EV the sales guy said that their dealership ( Vauxhall) had just bought some state of the art contraption to test the overall health of the EV battery. Ours came in at 98% rating where 100% is brand new and as good as it gets. Please don’t ask me the technicalities of this, as I don’t know. The important part is that I got a copy of that test result as part of the sale. The battery is guaranteed for 8 years from new. 4 years old when we bought it.
Mel

On our car the battery is tested at every service and battery warranty is 15 years, but it is a hybrid. Not sure if the warranty is the same for the EV models and no intention of finding out the hard way. LOL!

 

[Dustydog]

On our car the battery is tested at every service and battery warranty is 15 years, but it is a hybrid. Not sure if the warranty is the same for the EV models and no intention of finding out the hard way. LOL!

Chill out man! You’ll be back in an ICE next year🤪🤪

 

[ProfJohnL]

On our car the battery is tested at every service and battery warranty is 15 years, but it is a hybrid. Not sure if the warranty is the same for the EV models and no intention of finding out the hard way. LOL!

I'm amazed you don't already know what your warranty limitations are on your Lexus. But statistically you are very unlikely to have a battery failure.

 

[Buckman]

I'm amazed you don't already know what your warranty limitations are on your Lexus. But statistically you are very unlikely to have a battery failure.

I am not sure what you did not understand about my post as I did state that I know what the warranty is on our Lexus Hybrid , but I do not know the battery warranty limitations on a Lexus EV as we do not have one and have no intention of getting one!

 

[Dustydog]

Back to Great Grandpa Fred Drift, OP.

Bailey and Coachman financial year runs 12 months to 31.12.24.

You may be surprised these results are not yet in the public domain.
Why? No idea.
They are expected to be released sometime this august/september. We shall see 😉

 

[otherclive]

Back to Great Grandpa Fred Drift, OP.

Bailey and Coachman financial year runs 12 months to 31.12.24.

You may be surprised these results are not yet in the public domain.
Why? No idea.
They are expected to be released sometime this august/september. We shall see 😉

They should make for an interesting read. When do Eldiss result get published?

 

[Dustydog]

They should make for an interesting read. When do Eldiss result get published?

Elddis since 2017 is a trading name for Erwin Hymer Ltd.
You can read their accounts on line . 12 months to 31.7.24.

2023 they had a loss of £6.6 m .2024 loss reduced to £2.9 m
But T/O increased from £104m to £108m
Staff reduced from583 to 513.

The next results will probably not be out until the end of this year, so we can’t really compare just yet with Swift. Don’t expect good news🙉

 

[otherclive]

Elddis since 2017 is a trading name for Erwin Hymer Ltd.
You can read their accounts on line . 12 months to 31.7.24.

2023 they had a loss of £6.6 m .2024 loss reduced to £2.9 m
But T/O increased from £104m to £108m
Staff reduced from583 to 513.

The next results will probably not be out until the end of this year, so we can’t really compare just yet with Swift. Don’t expect good news🙉

Dusty, thank you. Yes I doubt they will have bucked the trend, other than possibly by other money saving measures.

 

[Buckman]

Dusty, thank you. Yes I doubt they will have bucked the trend, other than possibly by other money saving measures.

yep they use gaffer tape to hold the caravans together! 🤣 🤣

 

[RogerL]

yep they use gaffer tape to hold the caravans together! 🤣 🤣

That might be better than some of the stuff they do use!