Swift Friday afternoon botches.

[Dustydog]

I recently asked Damian about any treatments we should apply to the underside of the floors of caravans. I did this in part because a friend of mine recently bought a new Conqueror and found a number of botched holes, carelessly drilled for absolutely no useful purpose at all. Some of the holes had "splintered" the flooring making it extremely susceptible to water ingress , delamination etc.

Has anyone else on this forum had this problem?

Have a look at this
http://www.swift-talk.co.uk/forum/topics/another-production-line-botch?id=2976642%3ATopic%3A108193&page=1#comments

 

[Damian]

I have followed that thread on Swift Talk and it is absolutely unbelievable that vans are sent out in that condition.
The comment by Andy is just as unbelievable by saying it is a lack of neatness.
It is plainly lack of care when cutting holes in plywood.
Even a first year carpentry student is taught that support is required to stop such breakaway in laminated woods.

That lack of attention totally destroys the integrity of the waterproof membrane, so it would be better not there at all to let the wood dry naturally rather than trap water.

That kind of finish is what you get from piecework methods of manufacture and clearly lack of final inspection.
However, I would expect the Dealers to pick it up on PDI but obviously they do not, so why are we paying £420 or so for delivery and PDI?

I wonder if purchasers of new vans should take overalls and inspect every inch of the van before parting with any cash.

 

[trucker]

I think I would rather have a bit of shoddy workmanship to repair around a few holes than my Wheel falling off from Bristol!!!

Kev

 

[Dustydog]

I think I would rather have a bit of shoddy workmanship to repair around a few holes than my Wheel falling off from Bristol!!!

Kev

The 10 wheels we have been told about are from various dealers. I'd have thought the PDIs would have found any problem. No doubt we'll hear more from Bristol soon

 

[Damian]

Quote "
I think I would rather have a bit of shoddy workmanship to repair around a few holes than my Wheel falling off from Bristol!!!"

I know I would prefer it if on a van costing a lot of money there were NO faults at all!

It is only because the buying public put up with this kind of thing that nothing will ever be done to correct it.

 

[xtrailman]

Its standard practice to put a pilot hole through, then drill from both sides.

The damage is a result of drilling from one side with force.

The caravans should be replaced completely.

 

[Guest]

Brings back memories of my visit to Swift? one of the first operations is to bolt the corner steadies too the floor, I watched as the guy 'drilled' the circa12mm holes, the drill itself was big and heavy, (unlike the guy weilding it!), and used as a battering ram to force the drill bit through.
However, bad as that was, what really caught my eye, (obvious from a distance I might add!), was the angle of the cutting edges of the drill bit?.... to say it more resembled the point of a dart is about the closest thing I can think of to discribe it !!

 

[TonyG]

I am the orignal poster of this thread on Swift Talk..... Yes a complete and utter disgrace... I am not in the habit of inspecting under my van, but it was 4 weeks old and i'd had ATC fitted and wanted to have a look at it. i was horrified at what i saw. if i hadn't looked under the van this would have gone unoticed and i Would have had a damp issue. Ash's comments regarding lack of neatness was a complete joke.. I think Swift talk is an excellent forum but what really winds me up is there are certain posters who will have nothing bad said about swift and think we should all by eternally grateful that Swift have set up this site..... After spending 23K on a caravan i did not expect to find what i did, and i also did not expect the stupid response from Swift employees regarding lack of care

 

[Gafferbill]

….…I have a 1995 Swift bought new and I would love to replace it with another new van.
I just cannot find one to suit that is designed or built properly so I am keeping my money and plodding on with what I have.

My Swift came with a Carver heater that required a rectangular hole approximately 15x10cms to be cut in the caravan floor.
On my van this was cut in the wrong place, so this piece was stuck back in and sealed with rubberised mastic on the underside.

A new hole was then cut in the correct place!

This mistake has never caused me any trouble and I would still buy another Swift if it ticked all my boxes.

 

[Surfer]

The sad part about it is that PC Magazine will never highlight these issues in any article in their magazine!

 

[DerekBrad]

Well of course they won't! Where does their income originate? IMHO all they talk about is how "Mary loved the wardrobe" and "How John liked the new graphics" Total tosh!

 

[Parksy]

The sad part about it is that PC Magazine will never highlight these issues in any article in their magazine!

Well of course they won't! Where does their income originate? IMHO all they talk about is how "Mary loved the wardrobe" and "How John liked the new graphics" Total tosh!

The owners of Practical Caravan magazine own this forum where the problem has been highlighted so it's a bit unfair to say that 'Practical Caravan' don't mention faults in caravans. The editorial staff of the magazine regularly browse this forum so you never know.
The way that the holes were cut is a disgrace and so is the fact that the problem wasn't picked up during a pdi inspection, let's hope that Swift address this issue and put matters right.

 

[Joann]

You would not expect a 23K car to be bodged up like that or a 23K boat, so why do caravan manufacturers think they can get away with this?

I live near the swift factory and have seen the decline in the caravan industry in the area in recent years and the unemployment caused, you would think the remaining manufacturers would make more of an effort to make a quality product that will generate repeat custom so as not to go the same way.

 

[seth1]

That is disgraceful.Ive just followed the link.I would seriously expect a new van.I would expect that floor to be rotten in a few years.
Typically built in Britian,no pride taken in their own work,wont be long now same as the other once brillant industrys we had.I dont thing i would ever buy a British made van after reading some posts on here.

 

[Parksy]

I agree that there has been a bodge up on the production line, probably due to piecework production methods but in defence of Swift they have acted quickly to address this problem and to try to remedy it.

http://www.swift-talk.co.uk/forum/topics/floor-hole-plywood-breaking

 

[Dustydog]

I am sure a decent patch repair will work ok.
Will Swift offer a 6 year Warranty of Guarantee against future delamination or failure of the patch?
In the long term will the patch reduce the residual value year on year?

I hope the idiots who did this damage have been suitably retrained in how to drill through laminated products!

 

[TonyG]

Parksy -- did they have a choice, the thread was growing day by day. i had already contacted my dealer with a view to return the van for a replacement. It is a good job i looked under the van, this could have gone un-noticed until the rot set in, would Swift have played ball then??

 

[seth1]

A decent patch repair?Hold on you,ve just bought a brand new caravan,parted with serious money.
Not a chance,i know what i,d want.I cant understand why people make excuses for them.Its shoddy workmanship.

 

[Dustydog]

IMO Seth
I think Swift should refund the Owners the full purchase price and let them start again. As in other Industries these imperfect damaged at source caravans should be scrapped or properly repaired and sold as seconds with full guarantees and disclosure.

 

[Parksy]

Parksy -- did they have a choice, the thread was growing day by day. i had already contacted my dealer with a view to return the van for a replacement. It is a good job i looked under the van, this could have gone un-noticed until the rot set in, would Swift have played ball then??

It's hard to say about what choices they had really, the fact is that Swift have taken the decision to host their own internet forum so that on one hand they gain the benefit of instant customer feedback about their latest products and on the other hand the publicity generated by such a forum means that they have no place to hide when things go wrong.
If their setting up of their forum meant that they haven't sought a hiding place and that they are prepared to act in the interests of their customers then their decision to talk directly to the people who buy their products is a step in the right direction which all caravan manufacturers ought to copy.
As to whether Swift should replace caravans which are affected, it's hard for me to say without knowing all of the facts and personally inspecting each affected caravan but it's a decision for Swift to take in the knowledge that whatever they decide will be widely reported and commented on.

 

[Dustydog]

Parksy -- did they have a choice, the thread was growing day by day. i had already contacted my dealer with a view to return the van for a replacement. It is a good job i looked under the van, this could have gone un-noticed until the rot set in, would Swift have played ball then??

It's hard to say about what choices they had really, the fact is that Swift have taken the decision to host their own internet forum so that on one hand they gain the benefit of instant customer feedback about their latest products and on the other hand the publicity generated by such a forum means that they have no place to hide when things go wrong.
If their setting up of their forum meant that they haven't sought a hiding place and that they are prepared to act in the interests of their customers then their decision to talk directly to the people who buy their products is a step in the right direction which all caravan manufacturers ought to copy.
As to whether Swift should replace caravans which are affected, it's hard for me to say without knowing all of the facts and personally inspecting each affected caravan but it's a decision for Swift to take in the knowledge that whatever they decide will be widely reported and commented on.

Parksy
I think it is very important , irrespective of who the Manufacturer is , that PC Forum and the Mag are seen to be taking a sensible "Which" approach to customers problems. These poorly built caravans by any stretch of the imagination are substandard and not of Merchantable Quality. They are I am afraid poor seconds.
We all know in a Court of Law a full refund or replacement is the only remedy.
If the injured parties wish to take a partial cash refund then that is up to them but they must ask where will they stand at the time of future sale??
I'd hate to be part of a forum that condones our members accepting botches and second best having parted with their hard earned cash.
I bet the Mag doesn't publish this post

 

[Parksy]

Hi Dustydog
The forum is indeed watching the situation, it's not up to me whether or not Swift replace caravans or refund owners!
As for courts of law, someone would need to instigate proceedings before anything was decided by the court so neither you or I could possibly know for certain what would happen.
It's all very well trying to tell me that this, that and the other should happen but it's not mine or your decision to make so blowing off steam about it on an internet forum is simply so much hot air.
Nobody is condoning poor caravan build quality or encouraging forum members to accept second best, I'm simply stating the known facts as I see them.
Whether the magazine publishes this or any other post is a decision for them, by the time that the magazine is published about things that have happened this week a considerable amount of time has passed by but I'm not in any way employed by Practical Caravan magazine so I can't speak for them.
There's no getting away from the fact that the news about this issue is on this forum.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I have for a long time advocated that caravan manufactures should do a lot more to improve the quality of products they sell.

Here again we see evidence that poor workmanship has been allowed to occur in a production process pass through to dispatch AND also get through a PDI without detection.

There is no doubt that this fault occurred at the production stage, thus it must have been present at the point of sale. This is contrary to the terms of the Sale of Good Act.

Technically a customer could return the caravan to the seller for a full refund, Though I suspect the sellers will resist claiming that the function of the caravan is not impaired, and that the damage can be repaired.

Whether or not a repair can be made, the damage has been done. This will affect the caravans value, which means that customers have paid more for the caravan than it is worth.

I think the sellers should be sued for the loss of value. They will in turn sue the manufactures.

Only when claims begin to hurt financially is it likely that the manufactures will begin to heed the warnings about poor product quality.

Given that this has happened where it can be relatively easily seen, it makes you wonder whether corners have been cut elsewhere in the production process that might not be so easily detected before they cause more serious problems.

 

[Surfer]

John your summary is spot on. Even prior to the customer taking delviery of the caravan, there is a possiblity that long term damage has been down, i.e. water entering through the holes.
What is an interesting aspect is that the manufacturer is supposed to have a PDI and also the dealer. The PDI & delivery charges are seperate to the actual cost of the caravan. In effect if the dealer did not pick up these holes and charged you for a PDI in essence a there is a strong possibility that a crimnal act of fraud has been committed as you have been charged for work not done.
This is even before you use the SOGA against the dealer. It could be a very interesting court case especially if you call the manufacturer in as a witness which is the only way you will get a representative from the manufacturer into the court. The manufacturer's representative would be in a very difficult postion if asked whether they did a quality check on the caravan prior to delivery.
If they answer "yes" they drop the dealer in the proverbial muck however the dealer would be able to demonstrate that the holes were there on delivery, if they say "No" it does not say much for the quality of the caravan.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Dustydog
The forum is indeed watching the situation, it's not up to me whether or not Swift replace caravans or refund owners!
As for courts of law, someone would need to instigate proceedings before anything was decided by the court so neither you or I could possibly know for certain what would happen.
It's all very well trying to tell me that this, that and the other should happen but it's not mine or your decision to make so blowing off steam about it on an internet forum is simply so much hot air.
Nobody is condoning poor caravan build quality or encouraging forum members to accept second best, I'm simply stating the known facts as I see them.
Whether the magazine publishes this or any other post is a decision for them, by the time that the magazine is published about things that have happened this week a considerable amount of time has passed by but I'm not in any way employed by Practical Caravan magazine so I can't speak for them.
There's no getting away from the fact that the news about this issue is on this forum.

Hi Parksy
I think I may have pressed the wrong button here, my apologies. It was not hot air about you at all.
Mistakenly perhaps, I have always viewed the PC Mag and indeed the CC Mag as the peoples kind of Champions on caravan matters in the same way that Which mag and Jessica Gorst Williams of the Daily Telegraph take on peoples problems.
As far the Courts go I think Prof John's contributions and Surfers tend to confirm my views.
Would you buy a brand new suit with a big patch repair on the back? No.
Would you expect Dealers to display signs saying our caravans are sold with inherent faults? No.

As Damian has already said , as long as "piecework" continues problems will arise.