Tax evassion

[Steve L]

I noticed on the news the other day that the government had lost 200 million pounds by folks who drive vehicles without excise duty being paid.

Just think how much road improvement could be done with that money, and that's with just the ones who were actually caught. they reckoned that on average 1 in 15 vehicles were untaxed on the road. That also means that you and I (the honest ones)have a 1 in 15 chance that when the idiot crashes into your car, he/she will not be insured as they have no tax disc.

I've said this before but, why is the government wasteing millionson camera's and vans to take a picture of the offending vehicle while paying an operative 20k per annum to sit and watch, when there is a simpler way and fairer way of making sure everyone pays their dues.

Just slap 0.05p on a litre of fuel and then everyone would have to pay for the use of the roads.

Lorries would by virtue of their 9Mpg fuel consumption pay a proportionately larger sum to compensate for the damage they cause by shear weight, and Del boy in his plastic pig (who is often a hard working retire'e who is trying desperately to make the pension go further) would pay suitably less.

Now calm down, it's only a suggestion!!

Us caravanners would also pay proportionately for the use of the roads.

However the sales rep doing 100K miles per annum would pay more excise duty than you or I doing 35K miles with the caravan in tow.

I reckon that our current rate of taxation for a 7 year old 2 Litre car would average out to an average of 20'000 per annum at 0.05p added to a litre of fuel.

For an articulated lorry doing 9Mpg and covering 100'000 miles per annum their tax contribution would be £2525.55 per annum which is nearly half what they pay now, but with the benifit of the 200 million plus in extra revenue from the tax dodgers the short fall would be more than made up.

The only down side would be that hauliers and car drivers would have to either make the fuel tanks more secure to prevent syphoning or deliberately run low fuel levels to avoid the little pipe "suckers" nicking the fuel.

So lets chew the cud on this one, what do you think?

Regards.

Steve.

 

[MikeP]

A few sad truths:

1. 200 million squid wouldn't get anywhere near road improvements. The government would probably use it to pay for an invasion of France.

2. The government is wasting millions on cameras because it can. But it's not a waste - it rakes in millions in profits from people who break speed limits. Nasty criminals!

3. The government argues that the vehicle excise duty is the only way of checking that a car is MOT'd and insured each year. That's quite ironic if you think about it.

4. (Steve - I think you mean 5p per litre. 0.05p is one hundredth of that). You have personalised it (I think) by using 20,000 miles @ 30mpg x

 

[MikeP]

Sorry - dodgy maths. It's too early.

My calcs put 10p on a GALLON of fuel, so using Steve's model that would be 2.2p on a litre. I tried to work out his figures, but 30mpg might be a bit low.

Here's a better calc - 10,000 miles per annum @ 35mpg = 286 gallons @

 

[MikeP]

It's still wrong! I'm going out now.

 

[MikeP]

Here we go again.

A petrol car does 10,000 miles @ 35mpg and uses 286 gallons. It has to contribute (say)

 

[Tony A.]

Steve,

I don`t think 0.05pounds would be enough but I agree whole heartedly with the theory, anything to make the wrongdoers pay their share, It would be one hell of a tax on lorries, maybe something could be worked out for them along the same lines, maybe there aren`t as many tax evaders among comercial vehicles, or am I being nieve

My Sorento does 27mpg, solo I pay 160 tax,i do the national average 10,00 mile per year, so to be fair I would have to pay 10p per litre.

10,000/27 = 370 gal. 160:00p/370gal = 43.24 per gal, when pulling the van I get about 22mpg, I dont know how many miles I do towing but the extra would act as a road tax for the caravan, and that would silence another lobby of anti vanners

I think it`s a fair system and the police could stop looking for tax discs, and get on catching the idiots doing 90mph with a mobile phone to their ears(my pet hate)

Tony A.

 

[BrianStAlbans]

Easy solution..display the tax disc on the back of the car.I'm sure most people would report a car without one.

 

[Tony A.]

WHAT A BRILLIANT IDEA, LETS GET IT DONE, SOLVES THE PROBLEM, COSTS NOTHING.

WELL DONE BRIAN

Tony A.

 

[smiley]

If 22 million is the amount they lose, what do they do with the money they collect????

It's no good the good people paying more and more in taxes. They really need to stop handing out money to the people who never contribute.

I'm interested in if the person has no tax and ins, how do they buy the cars and run them??

 

[smiley]

Should read 200 million!!

 

[Oldfogey]

It's quite easy to have an untaxed and uninsured car. Just look in your local paper, find somebody selling an old banger for a few hundred (especially cheap with no MOT) buy it cah, give the seller a false name for thir bit of the reg. docs. and there you are.

A number plate check leads to a dead end, and if it gets clamped or towed, well it was so cheap it's not a great loss compared with tax, insurance, MOT costs.

 

[Steve L]

Actually folks the untaxed car is not just the preserve of the poor.

A couple of well to do farmers in Herefordshire have been caught out and not by just a few days either. One was three years out of date and the other was a disc from a stolen vehicle.

However to the point.

like most of us law abiding citizens, I get very peaved that the goverment always finds a way to tax the taxed just a little bit more to compensate for those who "buck" the system.

Hauliers could easily be compensated for excess pump prices as they all use industry fuel cards to run their fleet or bulk tanks at the transport yard. So the fuel delivered to that account can be priced accordingly and I'm sure the meager bit that is skimmed off by the boss and his drivers is a dew drop in the ocean of fuel tax to be retrieved from the dodgers.

Yep even I fell foul to that one, I had a guy change his car to diesel a few weeks after joining my firm and skimmed 4 gallons a week off me for two years, until he got too greedy and I ran out of fuel driving his truck back to work with what looked like a 1/4 full tank of fuel as he's bent the float arm on the fuel tank. Should of realised that 99% of drivers always have diesel cars, can't think why.

The point of taxing caravans is a good one,as by virtue of us using more fuel in the tow vehicle to pull the van we would be contributing tax to pay for those extra emmissions.

Steve.

 

[woodsieboy]

I agree with the principle of increasing the fuel price and abolishing the tax disc,I do not think anybody has mentioned that the fuel used by reps and business people would be tax deductable in the business accounts, whereas jolly Mr caravanner would be paying the full rate for fuel from income paid after tax was deducted, but the basic principle would remain, the more fuel you use the more money you would pay, so the bigger vehicles pay more and the people who drive the most miles pay the most, no need for road pricing or satellite tracking either.

 

[woodsieboy]

Forgot to mention most company reps are also paying tax on the benefit of being able to have a company provided car.

 

[mikeE]

This would also take in vehicles registered outside this country but using our roads.

And if you then add a few pence to the price of fuel for basic third party insurance it would mean that if you are moving you are insured. Then, as now, you could top up insurance privately to cover fire, theft, windscreens, etc as in fully comp. if required.

 

[Rioja]

A few sad truths:

1. 200 million squid wouldn't get anywhere near road improvements. The government would probably use it to pay for an invasion of France.

2. The government is wasting millions on cameras because it can. But it's not a waste - it rakes in millions in profits from people who break speed limits. Nasty criminals!

3. The government argues that the vehicle excise duty is the only way of checking that a car is MOT'd and insured each year. That's quite ironic if you think about it.

4. (Steve - I think you mean 5p per litre. 0.05p is one hundredth of that). You have personalised it (I think) by using 20,000 miles @ 30mpg x

 

[Rioja]

Easy solution..display the tax disc on the back of the car.I'm sure most people would report a car without one.

How many bother reporting caravans with different number plates to the tow car ? Very few I would think.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Last week I taxed my car on line

There was no need to provide proof of MOT or insurance as they were able to check instantly that I had it, the police have access to the same information.

The police also have cameras that are able to recognise a number plate and check to see if the car is taxed, an alarm goes off literally within seconds of the car passing.

The big issue they have now is knowing someones true identity when they stop them.

Roll on compulsory ID cards - especially for previous offenders but why would a normal law abiding person have anything against carrying them.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello everyone,

This thread has been covered before, and broadly the same conclusions were drawn.

One of the problems I have always had has been to keep track of the expiry date of the MOT. They never seem to synchronise with the tax and insurance, so It has been ever-so easy to forget it and find that it has expired.

If Road Fund duty is shifted to fuel, then the tax disc could be replaced by an MOT disc. This makes it visual, and would help to confirm the vehicles MOT status to others.

I like Mike E's suggestion of also loading fuel with a basic minimum insurance premium, But I foresee considerable difficulties with the administration of this scheme, however I am aware that in British Columbia - Canada there is a state wide insurance scheme, which might be model worth looking at.

 

[emmerson2]

A couple of miles from where I live there is quite a large housing estate. Whilst passing through there today I saw a truck picking up cars from the roadside. I don't mean recovering them, he was literally picking them up! On speaking to the operator, they were collecting untaxed vehicles from the roadside and taking them to a crusher! I'd heard of this scheme, but never seen it in operation. The day's blitz was apparently that estate, tomorrow it will be somewhere else in the borough; nobody knows where until the start of their shift. What a great idea! No tax, no car! what happens if it's on finance? One of the cars this morning was an 02 reg Mondeo. I'll bet the owner wasn't pleased about that. Is it true that there's no appeal either? Anyone else come this in operation?